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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #41
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 12:00 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  And I agree that Indy is doable. But the evidence of our anti-FBS admin is evident. All the well-connected donors are parroting the line about scheduling being impossible due to $$. That line has been spoon-fed to them with flimsy evidence pointing to Liberty’s approach (as if that has to be our approach as an Indy).

It would be smart to benchmark and look at others that have made the move. No benchmark will eactly match your situation.

From Liberty take that the precedent has been set for a direct Indy move.

From UConn take that an excellent FBS schedule is possible as is a modest TV contract.

Take from BS, Marshall, CC, Liberty, App State etc that you can move up and compete at a high level.

No FCS program is better positioned to move up. Many that were less positioned have moved up successfully.

What more could you possiblly wait for? An SEC invite? Be realistic and take the steps to grow and improve the brand, the exposure, the national recognition, the engagement, and even the bottom line. You're not just a small women's teachers' college anymore.
11-05-2020 12:14 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 12:11 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 11:51 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 11:31 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 10:56 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 07:18 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  No conference, not enough money to play as an independent.

You already have costs equal to G5/MAC programs. How much more is it to be FBS independent? What is the actual $$$ number? I understand the extra scholarships for men and women. That it not much in actual costs.

FCS has no revenue. You would have more buy games as FBS and you could get a modest TV contract like UConn did.

Not much in actual costs? 03-lmfao An estimate (now several years old) was an additional $4-5 million was needed to support JMU moving to FBS level FB.

When the university is struggling to address a COVID related $30+ million budget shortfall adding another $4 mil to the burden is not going to happen. Especially when G5 television is rapidly shrinking.

As I said JMU already is spending most of the FBS level costs. You have made significant investments that apply to FBS.

Let's look at the numbers. 22 more scholarships, times 2 for women's Title IX matching.

Let's fully load the costs at $35,000 as a mix of in-state and out-of-state. That's $1.54M.

From an accounting perspective these are really incremental costs. You aren't investing more overhead for classrooms, teachers, etc. for these incremental scholarships. So the real incremental costs are less than the fully loaded costs that are documented.

Where does the other $4M in costs come from? If you increase salaries, that is a choice. A regional travel schedule may cost less than a conference travel schedule, even a FCS conference.

That is a look at costs.

For revenue, a modest TV contract would be better than no FCS TV revenue. A better schedule means more fans. Revenue from more fans comes through multiple streams. As FBS you can get more revenue from buy games. Longer term you are building a product and a brand with more value.

So the increase in costs are modest. The increase in costs may be offset by increase in revenue. On top of that you are building long term value.

Now that Liberty has set the precedent for a direct move to FBS Independence, what is holding JMU back? A move seems obvious.

Your costs figures don't include coaching salary upgrades for football as well as new coaches needed for the Title IX offset (see JMU already FULLY funds it's women's teams, meaning we'd have to add new programs). Then add in costs for new facilities, equipment, etc...

The coaching staff upgrades (including additional support staff and assistants) would easily be $1 million on by itself.

I want us to be FBS, have pushed for it for years, but the $$$ isn't there for an indepent move up.


There is NO need for more women's programs...See Carr report from 5 years ago which confirmed that we are OK with Title IX if we go to FBS
11-05-2020 12:18 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #43
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 12:18 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  There is NO need for more women's programs...See Carr report from 5 years ago which confirmed that we are OK with Title IX if we go to FBS

Then that cuts those costs in about half. Say $750,000 in fully loaded costs but only $350,000 in actual incremental costs.

I can understand JMU waiting and studying and monitoring and waiting and studying and monitoring if the old regulations were in place that you hade to be invited up by a FBS conference. There are negatives to the G5 conferences, including footprint, travel, and the schedule.

With the Indy path now available it's a no brainer.

Has JMU leadership specifically undertaken a study to move up given the dramatic change in Indy opportunity with the Liberty precedent? It seems if you had you would have moved by now.

So I wonder if the "monitoring" is actually "just not doing anything".
11-05-2020 01:32 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
JMU is stuck on being in one conference for all sports. Currently, that is used as a reason to not move to FBS. But I also think our admin knows the CAA isn’t a good home for our non-FB sports. So they don’t move to FBS Indy because they actually WANT to join an improved conference that includes FBS football. Being unnecessarily selective is getting in the way of progress. And yes, we do need to up our donor game. But I think that’s an easy fix in FBS.
11-05-2020 01:42 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #45
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 01:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  JMU is stuck on being in one conference for all sports. Currently, that is used as a reason to not move to FBS. But I also think our admin knows the CAA isn’t a good home for our non-FB sports. So they don’t move to FBS Indy because they actually WANT to join an improved conference that includes FBS football. Being unnecessarily selective is getting in the way of progress. And yes, we do need to up our donor game. But I think that’s an easy fix in FBS.
UConn has shown that you can schedule as Indy much better that a G5 affiliation. JMU has so much regional scheduling potential.

Why not the A10 for other-than-football?
11-05-2020 01:47 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #46
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
"UConn has committed to one annual “guarantee” game for which it will be paid an average of $1.5 million: at Clemson in 2021, at Michigan in 2022, at Tennessee in 2023, at Ohio State in 2025, for example."
11-05-2020 01:57 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 01:47 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 01:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  JMU is stuck on being in one conference for all sports. Currently, that is used as a reason to not move to FBS. But I also think our admin knows the CAA isn’t a good home for our non-FB sports. So they don’t move to FBS Indy because they actually WANT to join an improved conference that includes FBS football. Being unnecessarily selective is getting in the way of progress. And yes, we do need to up our donor game. But I think that’s an easy fix in FBS.
UConn has shown that you can schedule as Indy much better that a G5 affiliation. JMU has so much regional scheduling potential.

Why not the A10 for other-than-football?

You're troll-ish.

UConn is certainly the model I look to reproduce. 03-lmfao
11-05-2020 01:58 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #48
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 01:58 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 01:47 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 01:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  JMU is stuck on being in one conference for all sports. Currently, that is used as a reason to not move to FBS. But I also think our admin knows the CAA isn’t a good home for our non-FB sports. So they don’t move to FBS Indy because they actually WANT to join an improved conference that includes FBS football. Being unnecessarily selective is getting in the way of progress. And yes, we do need to up our donor game. But I think that’s an easy fix in FBS.
UConn has shown that you can schedule as Indy much better that a G5 affiliation. JMU has so much regional scheduling potential.

Why not the A10 for other-than-football?

You're troll-ish.

UConn is certainly the model I look to reproduce.

It would be smart to benchmark and look at others that have made the move. No benchmark will eactly match your situation.

From Liberty take that the precedent has been set for a direct Indy move.

From UConn take that an excellent FBS schedule is possible as is a modest TV contract.

Take from BS, Marshall, CC, Liberty, App State etc that you can move up and compete at a high level.

No FCS program is better positioned to move up. Many that were less positioned have moved up successfully.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 02:09 PM by FBS Dave.)
11-05-2020 02:08 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #49
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
Why did the A-10 trigger the troll slur?

Here is the Sagarin rank of basketball conferences:
CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%

1 BIG TEN = 85.08 84.54 ( 1) 14 84.80 ( 1)
2 BIG EAST = 84.25 84.06 ( 3) 10 84.09 ( 3)
3 BIG 12 = 84.07 84.38 ( 2) 10 84.23 ( 2)
4 ATLANTIC COAST = 82.11 82.03 ( 4) 15 82.05 ( 4)
5 SOUTHEASTERN = 81.53 81.63 ( 5) 14 81.62 ( 5)
6 PAC-12 = 80.24 80.30 ( 6) 12 80.29 ( 6)
7 AMER. ATHLETIC = 79.22 79.08 ( 7) 12 79.15 ( 7)
8 WEST COAST = 76.19 76.61 ( 8) 10 76.29 ( 8)
9 ATLANTIC 10 = 75.92 75.91 ( 9) 14 75.89 ( 9)
10 MOUNTAIN WEST = 75.87 75.91 ( 10) 11 75.88 ( 10)
11 MISSOURI VALLEY = 74.77 74.23 ( 12) 10 74.38 ( 12)
12 MAC(east) = 74.38 74.56 ( 11) 6 74.53 ( 11)
13 SOUTHERN = 72.67 72.22 ( 14) 10 72.48 ( 13)
14 SUN BELT = 72.29 72.02 ( 15) 12 72.09 ( 15)
15 CONFERENCE USA = 72.27 72.26 ( 13) 14 72.28 ( 14)
16 IVY LEAGUE = 72.04 71.90 ( 16) 8 71.95 ( 16)
17 MAC(west) = 71.43 71.65 ( 17) 6 71.62 ( 17)
18 COLONIAL = 70.54 70.37 ( 18) 10 70.40 ( 18)
19 BIG SKY = 69.91 69.82 ( 19) 11 69.85 ( 19)
20 SUMMIT LEAGUE = 69.63 69.47 ( 20) 9 69.55 ( 20)
21 HORIZON = 68.79 68.81 ( 21) 10 68.80 ( 21)
22 BIG WEST = 68.66 68.74 ( 22) 9 68.70 ( 22)
23 WESTERN ATHLETIC = 68.18 67.89 ( 26) 9 68.25 ( 23)
24 PATRIOT = 68.15 68.10 ( 23) 10 68.20 ( 24)
25 METRO ATLANTIC = 68.03 68.07 ( 24) 11 68.08 ( 25)
26 AMERICA EAST = 67.34 67.91 ( 25) 9 67.63 ( 26)
27 ATLANTIC SUN = 66.60 66.82 ( 28) 9 66.84 ( 27)
28 OHIO VALLEY = 66.50 67.08 ( 27) 12 66.78 ( 28)
29 NORTHEAST = 65.89 65.57 ( 30) 11 65.68 ( 30)
30 BIG SOUTH = 65.55 66.01 ( 29) 11 65.87 ( 29)
31 SOUTHLAND = 65.26 65.41 ( 31) 13 65.32 ( 31)
32 SOUTHWESTERN = 62.17 61.83 ( 32) 10 61.95 ( 32)
33 MID-EASTERN

After the "Power 6" in basketball the AAC, WCC, A10, and Wountain West are the next tier.

The Colonial is ranked lower than the Ivy League.

Joining the A10 and taking Football FBS Indy would be a huge step forward for JMU.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 02:18 PM by FBS Dave.)
11-05-2020 02:17 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #50
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
GW, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, Davidson... A10 seems like it would have a much better regional core as well as a more competitive conference.
11-05-2020 02:41 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
Hopefully you did not spend too much time on those posts.

03-zzz

I can honestly tell you I would not switch athletic departments with GW, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, Davidson...
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 02:45 PM by Dukester.)
11-05-2020 02:44 PM
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AssyrianDuke Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
Please refer to the Newest Conference Rumors thread. All these questions have been answered there.
11-05-2020 02:49 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #53
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:44 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Hopefully you did not spend too much time on those posts.

03-zzz

I can honestly tell you I would not switch athletic departments with GW, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, Davidson...

Of course. That's not the question. You don't pick a conference to switch athletic departments.

Football Indy FBS is a big improvement vs the CAA, especially this downgraded CAA as others have upgraded and the CAA has replaced.

Then, for hoops, you have the much better A10 competition.

For hoops and the other olympic sports, you have a nice regional core in the A10.

Are you really arguing that the CAA is better than the A10?
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 02:53 PM by FBS Dave.)
11-05-2020 02:52 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:52 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:44 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Hopefully you did not spend too much time on those posts.

03-zzz

I can honestly tell you I would not switch athletic departments with GW, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, Davidson...

Of course. That's not the question. You don't pick a conference to switch athletic departments.

Football Indy FBS is a big improvement vs the CAA, especially this downgraded CAA as others have upgraded and the CAA has replaced.

Then, for hoops, you have the much better A10 competition.

For hoops and the other olympic sports, you have a nice regional core in the A10.

Are you really arguing that the CAA is better than the A10?

03-zzz yep
11-05-2020 02:53 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:44 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Hopefully you did not spend too much time on those posts.

03-zzz

I can honestly tell you I would not switch athletic departments with GW, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, Davidson...

For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.
11-05-2020 02:54 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #56
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
11-05-2020 02:58 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #57
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:49 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  Please refer to the Newest Conference Rumors thread. All these questions have been answered there.
They seem to be talking about playing D3 Bible Colleges over there.

It just seems that JMU is stuck in the past with evaluating its conference position. The landscape changed drastically with Liberty's move and it seems JMU didn't process the change.
11-05-2020 03:01 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
11-05-2020 03:08 PM
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FBS Dave Online
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Post: #59
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 03:08 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
Looks like you may be on the "monitoring committee" 03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz
11-05-2020 03:15 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 03:15 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:08 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
Looks like you may be on the "monitoring committee" 03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz

I think you have some great ideas - why waste them here? - send them to cainml@jmu.edu . Perhaps you can make a difference.

02-13-banana
11-05-2020 03:27 PM
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