(11-15-2020 07:56 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 12:05 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  We already addressed this. Liberty has unlimited funds. JMU and App State do not. As the Liberty fan posted a moment ago, they are paying their head coach $3m a season. App pays Shawn Clark like $750k. How much does JMU pay their head coach?

Going Indy without deep pockets is a death warrant. Which is why your athletic directors haven’t done it.

I’m not sure a one-off example proves any point. How is G5 vs Indy a coaching salary issue. Coastal Carolina is succeeding in FBS with modest coaching costs.

JMU could afford to pay higher coaching salaries if they thought it was necessary.

With all due respect, if you can’t see the disparity between how Liberty operates and how JMU operates, continuing this discussion is a little useless.

If it made sense financially and competitively for JMU to go Independent, JMU would have already done it. The reasons why they have not are quite clear to anyone who can see the difference between the two programs.


Your Coastal example suggests such. Liberty has the money to retain Hugh Freeze, because they can pay him $3m this year. And as a result, sustain their recent success in recruiting and on the field play. All imperative aspects of being an independent.

Coastal pays Jamey Chadwell $375k. He will be gone in this offseason to somewhere that will pay him 3x as much and Coastal will have to start over again. Just like App and JMU have had to do recently. Coastal has no where near the funds to keep Chadwell around and sustain their success.

All of this is to say, Liberty or UCONN have the money to operate and sustain success as independents. They can pay the money to keep high level coaches. They can afford to cover the $ they lose out on from the CFP by not being in a conference. They can afford to pay teams to come play them.

JMU shares almost the exact same athletic budget as UMASS. And fairly similar track records at the FCS a level. If JMU wants to see what their future as an FBS Indy would look like, I suggest they look at what’s happened in Amherst.

UMASS future schedule - https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/umass/

I am not saying it's a difference making between yes and no for a JMU indy experience vs umass' experience but AP396, are you over looking that JMU has numerous g5s within a bus ride football game and umass does not?

What if somebody comes up with a jmu scedule that is
5 regional g5s
1 regional good p5
1regipnal bad p5
2 regional fcs
And every game is a bus trip?

JMU would fare better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

(11-15-2020 03:46 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  JMU would care better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

I know we are confident in our team and Coach Cignetti but that is such a jump in level of competition. If I quickly ran through the schedule I see us as under .500.

ODU - W
Liberty - L (Toss up but I would give Liberty the edge as we'd probably play there)
VaTech - L
UVA - L
Marshall - L
WVU - L (we've seen this would be a close game)
Pitt - L (Close game we could win)
Charlotte - W
App - L (Same as liberty)
ECU - W (would love this series)
Maryland - L
Navy - W
Temple - W
Ohio - W

6 - 8

Any of those last three could also be a loss. Hard to say without seeing our team this year but I think there would be a lot of close games we would lose with that schedule. Probably worth it to plug that schedule into Sargin and see what the general matchup percentages would be.

It's also easy to just chalk up a schedule with local opponents but how would we get matchups like Maryland, Temple, Ohio, etc when they are in the middle of their conference stretch?

(11-15-2020 01:20 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I am not saying it's a difference making between yes and no for a JMU indy experience vs umass' experience but AP396, are you over looking that JMU has numerous g5s within a bus ride football game and umass does not?

No. That’s certainly an advantage for JMU. That said, if the idea in going Independent is to have a superior schedule than say, a CUSA or SunBelt schedule, how does scheduling bus ride G5 teams remedy that? Unless Liberty and ODU really move the needle for you all.

I’m sure playing Marshall, App and ECU would be more exciting but it’s unlikely any of us would be in Harrisonburg more than 2x a decade OOC.

(11-15-2020 03:56 PM)Anders Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 03:46 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  JMU would care better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

I know we are confident in our team and Coach Cignetti but that is such a jump in level of competition. If I quickly ran through the schedule I see us as under .500.

ODU - W
Liberty - L (Toss up but I would give Liberty the edge as we'd probably play there)
VaTech - L
UVA - L
Marshall - L
WVU - L (we've seen this would be a close game)
Pitt - L (Close game we could win)
Charlotte - W
App - L (Same as liberty)
ECU - W (would love this series)
Maryland - L
Navy - W
Temple - W
Ohio - W

6 - 8

Any of those last three could also be a loss. Hard to say without seeing our team this year but I think there would be a lot of close games we would lose with that schedule. Probably worth it to plug that schedule into Sargin and see what the general matchup percentages would be.

It's also easy to just chalk up a schedule with local opponents but how would we get matchups like Maryland, Temple, Ohio, etc when they are in the middle of their conference stretch?

The same way Liberty, UCONN and UMASS have...Get your fcs game in first and your P5 (or two) and then 9 g5 games.

(11-15-2020 03:46 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  JMU would fare better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

They would only be able to get 1 or 2 of those per year. Most have 4 OOC and 8 conference games, WVU and Maryland only have 3 OOC. And I don't see anyone but maybe ODU or Liberty giving them a long 1-1 contract.

And how many ADs are going to be excited to sign a JMU contract from a school just jumping IA when there are bigger schools out there. I remember Marshall had a ton of trouble signing H/H when we 1st moved up.

(11-15-2020 05:44 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 03:46 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  JMU would fare better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

They would only be able to get 1 or 2 of those per year. Most have 4 OOC and 8 conference games, WVU and Maryland only have 3 OOC. And I don't see anyone but maybe ODU or Liberty giving them a long 1-1 contract.

And how many ADs are going to be excited to sign a JMU contract from a school just jumping IA when there are bigger schools out there. I remember Marshall had a ton of trouble signing H/H when we 1st moved up.

I could see a solid JMU schedule... something like this:

Delaware
@VaTech
@Wake Forest
ODU
Marshall
Liberty
@UCONN
@UMASS
Army
@NMSU
@App State
Charlotte

Of course, this is just a template... but that is gonna pack the stands

Why have there been posters who lump UConn and Liberty together as Independents with resources to be successful playing as Independents? UConn- they have been a dumpster fire for years and the only time they had success in FBS was as a member of the Big East back when the Big East had a guaranteed spot in the BCS. I don’t think they will be successful as an Independent.

(11-15-2020 03:56 PM)Anders Wrote:  It's also easy to just chalk up a schedule with local opponents but how would we get matchups like Maryland, Temple, Ohio, etc when they are in the middle of their conference stretch?

try to schedule them early in the season and schedule the indy games in weeks 8-12.

(11-15-2020 12:52 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 07:56 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 12:05 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  We already addressed this. Liberty has unlimited funds. JMU and App State do not. As the Liberty fan posted a moment ago, they are paying their head coach $3m a season. App pays Shawn Clark like $750k. How much does JMU pay their head coach?

Going Indy without deep pockets is a death warrant. Which is why your athletic directors haven’t done it.

I’m not sure a one-off example proves any point. How is G5 vs Indy a coaching salary issue. Coastal Carolina is succeeding in FBS with modest coaching costs.

JMU could afford to pay higher coaching salaries if they thought it was necessary.

With all due respect, if you can’t see the disparity between how Liberty operates and how JMU operates, continuing this discussion is a little useless.

If it made sense financially and competitively for JMU to go Independent, JMU would have already done it. The reasons why they have not are quite clear to anyone who can see the difference between the two programs.


Your Coastal example suggests such. Liberty has the money to retain Hugh Freeze, because they can pay him $3m this year. And as a result, sustain their recent success in recruiting and on the field play. All imperative aspects of being an independent.

Coastal pays Jamey Chadwell $375k. He will be gone in this offseason to somewhere that will pay him 3x as much and Coastal will have to start over again. Just like App and JMU have had to do recently. Coastal has no where near the funds to keep Chadwell around and sustain their success.

All of this is to say, Liberty or UCONN have the money to operate and sustain success as independents. They can pay the money to keep high level coaches. They can afford to cover the $ they lose out on from the CFP by not being in a conference. They can afford to pay teams to come play them.

JMU shares almost the exact same athletic budget as UMASS. And fairly similar track records at the FCS a level. If JMU wants to see what their future as an FBS Indy would look like, I suggest they look at what’s happened in Amherst.

UMASS future schedule - https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/umass/

Ha! If it made sense JMU would have already done it! That’s great!

I bet you predicted Liberty’s move up and success as well, because it just made sense.

Most schools deal with a coaching carousel. There are very few final destination jobs. It’s just part of football.

(11-11-2020 02:22 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  Coach Freeze just got a raise and extension. The news article said it’s in the 3mil range. So he’s up there above most of the G5 and a good portion of the non elite P5.

Hugh Freeze to South Carolina. He is gone... book it!

I’ve been trying to add together all the “JMU should go independent” crowd...and I’m getting about 6, maybe 7 JMU hardcore fans on this site. Does that sound about right?

Certainly those 6 or 7 JMU fans (with input from the Marshall and Liberty visitors) can keep this thread going. After all, hope springs eternal.

Realistically, JMU deciding to petition the NCAA to play FBS FB as an independent has about as much chance of happening as JMU joining the IVY League. It just ain’t gonna happen.

(11-15-2020 11:10 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I’ve been trying to add together all the “JMU should go independent” crowd...and I’m getting about 6, maybe 7 JMU hardcore fans on this site. Does that sound about right?

Certainly those 6 or 7 JMU fans (with input from the Marshall and Liberty visitors) can keep this thread going. After all, hope springs eternal.

Realistically, JMU deciding to petition the NCAA to play FBS FB as an independent has about as much chance of happening as JMU joining the IVY League. It just ain’t gonna happen.

you think it is that high? I'd say 3-4 max. (Unless you're counting Dukeman's sock puppet)

Indy isn't happening. Sorry, but you would have a better schedule in CUSA or the Sun Belt. You could schedule 4 P5 games if you wanted.

All I know is Marshall, Coastal, and Liberty are all ranked. App is receiving votes, and JMU is still monitoring the situation.

(11-15-2020 11:10 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I’ve been trying to add together all the “JMU should go independent” crowd...and I’m getting about 6, maybe 7 JMU hardcore fans on this site. Does that sound about right?

Certainly those 6 or 7 JMU fans (with input from the Marshall and Liberty visitors) can keep this thread going. After all, hope springs eternal.

Realistically, JMU deciding to petition the NCAA to play FBS FB as an independent has about as much chance of happening as JMU joining the IVY League. It just ain’t gonna happen.

While I have no issue with playing FBS as an independent, I will agree that it just isn't going to happen. More than anything else, it requires a considerable amount of work, getting approvals for the contracts etc., and I don't believe we have the desire to take on that challenge. A private school who is willing to give a lot of power to the AD has a much easier road to make schedules year after year.

(11-15-2020 06:32 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 05:44 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 03:46 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  JMU would fare better than UMASS, but not as well as a Liberty or UConn simply due to budget. Yes, there are many fbs schools nearby, but there no guarantee that they could be scheduled every year.

ODU
Liberty
VaTech
UVA
Marshall
WVU
Pitt
Charlotte
App
ECU
Maryland
Navy
Temple
Ohio

Just to name a few.. not to mention fcs schools very close by. You could make a pretty good schedule.

They would only be able to get 1 or 2 of those per year. Most have 4 OOC and 8 conference games, WVU and Maryland only have 3 OOC. And I don't see anyone but maybe ODU or Liberty giving them a long 1-1 contract.

And how many ADs are going to be excited to sign a JMU contract from a school just jumping IA when there are bigger schools out there. I remember Marshall had a ton of trouble signing H/H when we 1st moved up.

I could see a solid JMU schedule... something like this:

Delaware
@VaTech
@Wake Forest
ODU
Marshall
Liberty
@UCONN
@UMASS
Army
@NMSU
@App State
Charlotte

Of course, this is just a template... but that is gonna pack the stands

Nice schedule, likely 7-5, maybe 8-4, Year 1, improving Year 2 and beyond.

(11-16-2020 04:23 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  While I have no issue with playing FBS as an independent, I will agree that it just isn't going to happen. More than anything else, it requires a considerable amount of work, getting approvals for the contracts etc., and I don't believe we have the desire to take on that challenge. A private school who is willing to give a lot of power to the AD has a much easier road to make schedules year after year.

What does private vs public matter? UConn has put together a really good schedule and they are public.

Those that are stuck in the “monitoring” inertia look for justifications for JMU’s failure to move forward. “We couldn’t compete like Liberty because they are private. They have more money. UConn is an established brand, we wouldn’t get their schedule. App State and Marshall have better fans”. Wah wah wah.

JMU has not moved up because change is difficult. It takes special people to manage change. It’s uncomfortable. It feels like personal risk, even though one of the greatest institutional risks is stationary inertia. It’s easier for an admin’s self preservation to not usher change.

JMU should definitely make the move. Y’all are much closer to the politics to predict it won’t happen, so I’m not arguing the odds.

Meanwhile bold programs have lapped you. Private, public, through conference affiliations, as independents, with modest coaching salaries, and with high coaching hires. Pick your excuses, but they are just excuses.

Reality is this, JMU would be just another FCS move up. The rest of us only get 4 OOC games per year. I'm sorry, but JMU isn't at the top of the list for most teams to schedule. That's just reality of the situation.

Marshall and App St aren't either, so this isn't a knock on JMU.....but that's why we are in a conference.