(12-04-2020 08:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG. The Peter principle has caught up with Alo. Recognizing his effort, nonetheless, he just lacks the skills to consistently help Memphis become a good, consist program that has been unable to make the tourney with Alo getting the major minutes at PG - that's the bottom line. He's not a facilitator, his attempts to penetrate rarely result in points, he's an unreliable shooter that defenses ignore. His defense, despite his tenacity, allows taller players to shoot over him. His on-ball defense is poor (he can't keep his guy from beating him to the basket). And he's had 2 full seasons with majority minutes at PG to improve without much change (especially in terms of team wins). We have to get Baugh & Boogie the majority minutes at PG & hope they improve & grow according to the potential their recruiting rankings indicated. Penny has to get past his 10-11 man rotations & give the top 7-8 guys the major minutes. That would improve their confidence, hone their skills & improve results over the season making us competitive by season's end. This debate reminds me in principle of Fuente deciding to start Lynch over an experienced but skill-limited senior QB, Jacob Karam. You have to commit to the younger, more talented guys & get them the major game minutes if you want too move the team to a higher level over the course of the season. Virtually all of the media see this, and most around the program but Penny's loyalty to Alo is hurting this program. The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

Quote:AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG.

I didn't bother to read the rest of whatever gibberish that was that you couldn't even separate into paragraphs. Let's focus on this. They played 43 minutes and had 2 assists. They had 4 assists in 54 minutes against St. Mary's.

Boogie and Baugh are averaging 3 assists per 40 minutes. Lomax is averaging 7.5. You can't have point guards averaging less than 1 assist every 13 minutes. It won't work.

Boogie has 4 assists. Jayden also has 4 assists. DJ has 5 assists. Unless Boogie all of a sudden becomes Kyrie Irving, right now he is the last guy that should be running the point. LQ has more assists than Baugh

While I was typing I saw the last sentence...

Quote:The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

You argued that we played in the national championship game in the 2009 season; so there's that.

those who would argue the world is flat..

nailed it Atlanta

(12-04-2020 09:37 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 08:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG. The Peter principle has caught up with Alo. Recognizing his effort, nonetheless, he just lacks the skills to consistently help Memphis become a good, consist program that has been unable to make the tourney with Alo getting the major minutes at PG - that's the bottom line. He's not a facilitator, his attempts to penetrate rarely result in points, he's an unreliable shooter that defenses ignore. His defense, despite his tenacity, allows taller players to shoot over him. His on-ball defense is poor (he can't keep his guy from beating him to the basket). And he's had 2 full seasons with majority minutes at PG to improve without much change (especially in terms of team wins). We have to get Baugh & Boogie the majority minutes at PG & hope they improve & grow according to the potential their recruiting rankings indicated. Penny has to get past his 10-11 man rotations & give the top 7-8 guys the major minutes. That would improve their confidence, hone their skills & improve results over the season making us competitive by season's end. This debate reminds me in principle of Fuente deciding to start Lynch over an experienced but skill-limited senior QB, Jacob Karam. You have to commit to the younger, more talented guys & get them the major game minutes if you want too move the team to a higher level over the course of the season. Virtually all of the media see this, and most around the program but Penny's loyalty to Alo is hurting this program. The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

Quote:AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG.

I didn't bother to read the rest of whatever gibberish that was that you couldn't even separate into paragraphs. Let's focus on this. They played 43 minutes and had 2 assists. They had 4 assists in 54 minutes against St. Mary's.

Boogie and Baugh are averaging 3 assists per 40 minutes. Lomax is averaging 7.5. You can't have point guards averaging less than 1 assist every 13 minutes. It won't work.

Boogie has 4 assists. Jayden also has 4 assists. DJ has 5 assists. Unless Boogie all of a sudden becomes Kyrie Irving, right now he is the last guy that should be running the point. LQ has more assists than Baugh

While I was typing I saw the last sentence...

Quote:The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

You argued that we played in the national championship game in the 2009 season; so there's that.

Who do you think should be the primary PG on this team?
I thought LQ did really well at the role last game. He could be an answer and this experience may help when we play tougher teams. Boogie IMO should get a shot at it as well; he will have a significant learning curve but may bode well for future seasons. Lomax IMO is a solid backup PG and he's the type of kid that will embrace that role well.

(12-04-2020 12:13 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 09:37 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 08:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG. The Peter principle has caught up with Alo. Recognizing his effort, nonetheless, he just lacks the skills to consistently help Memphis become a good, consist program that has been unable to make the tourney with Alo getting the major minutes at PG - that's the bottom line. He's not a facilitator, his attempts to penetrate rarely result in points, he's an unreliable shooter that defenses ignore. His defense, despite his tenacity, allows taller players to shoot over him. His on-ball defense is poor (he can't keep his guy from beating him to the basket). And he's had 2 full seasons with majority minutes at PG to improve without much change (especially in terms of team wins). We have to get Baugh & Boogie the majority minutes at PG & hope they improve & grow according to the potential their recruiting rankings indicated. Penny has to get past his 10-11 man rotations & give the top 7-8 guys the major minutes. That would improve their confidence, hone their skills & improve results over the season making us competitive by season's end. This debate reminds me in principle of Fuente deciding to start Lynch over an experienced but skill-limited senior QB, Jacob Karam. You have to commit to the younger, more talented guys & get them the major game minutes if you want too move the team to a higher level over the course of the season. Virtually all of the media see this, and most around the program but Penny's loyalty to Alo is hurting this program. The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

Quote:AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG.

I didn't bother to read the rest of whatever gibberish that was that you couldn't even separate into paragraphs. Let's focus on this. They played 43 minutes and had 2 assists. They had 4 assists in 54 minutes against St. Mary's.

Boogie and Baugh are averaging 3 assists per 40 minutes. Lomax is averaging 7.5. You can't have point guards averaging less than 1 assist every 13 minutes. It won't work.

Boogie has 4 assists. Jayden also has 4 assists. DJ has 5 assists. Unless Boogie all of a sudden becomes Kyrie Irving, right now he is the last guy that should be running the point. LQ has more assists than Baugh

While I was typing I saw the last sentence...

Quote:The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

You argued that we played in the national championship game in the 2009 season; so there's that.

Who do you think should be the primary PG on this team?
I thought LQ did really well at the role last game. He could be an answer and this experience may help when we play tougher teams. Boogie IMO should get a shot at it as well; he will have a significant learning curve but may bode well for future seasons. Lomax IMO is a solid backup PG and he's the type of kid that will embrace that role well.

I'm yelling at the screen for Penny to get Lomax out at the end games like everyone else, when he isn't playing well. LQ and Baugh are so different, but they are both the same when they play teams with athletic guards. LQ is too slow, and Baugh's handle isn't good enough.

I think you keep doing what you're doing until someone emerges out of the three. You for sure don't give anyone the keys to the car and let them play 30 minutes. None of them have shown that they can perform at a sustained level at any time.

The Arkansas State game was a huge disappointment. Against a bad opponent, that was the perfect opportunity for either Baugh or Boogie to have a complete game. Score the ball, run the offense, and get everyone involved. It was the perfect practice game.

What happens? Baugh and Boogie combine for 2 assists in 43 minutes against an opponent that is overmatched. Boogie hasn't had a single game this year with more than 2 assists. Baugh has had one game with more than 2 assists. Lomax has had at least 3 assists in every game.

So my opinion is that you keep splitting the minutes the same way, and play whoever is having the best game, more than the other two.

(12-04-2020 12:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 12:13 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 09:37 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 08:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG. The Peter principle has caught up with Alo. Recognizing his effort, nonetheless, he just lacks the skills to consistently help Memphis become a good, consist program that has been unable to make the tourney with Alo getting the major minutes at PG - that's the bottom line. He's not a facilitator, his attempts to penetrate rarely result in points, he's an unreliable shooter that defenses ignore. His defense, despite his tenacity, allows taller players to shoot over him. His on-ball defense is poor (he can't keep his guy from beating him to the basket). And he's had 2 full seasons with majority minutes at PG to improve without much change (especially in terms of team wins). We have to get Baugh & Boogie the majority minutes at PG & hope they improve & grow according to the potential their recruiting rankings indicated. Penny has to get past his 10-11 man rotations & give the top 7-8 guys the major minutes. That would improve their confidence, hone their skills & improve results over the season making us competitive by season's end. This debate reminds me in principle of Fuente deciding to start Lynch over an experienced but skill-limited senior QB, Jacob Karam. You have to commit to the younger, more talented guys & get them the major game minutes if you want too move the team to a higher level over the course of the season. Virtually all of the media see this, and most around the program but Penny's loyalty to Alo is hurting this program. The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

Quote:AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG.

I didn't bother to read the rest of whatever gibberish that was that you couldn't even separate into paragraphs. Let's focus on this. They played 43 minutes and had 2 assists. They had 4 assists in 54 minutes against St. Mary's.

Boogie and Baugh are averaging 3 assists per 40 minutes. Lomax is averaging 7.5. You can't have point guards averaging less than 1 assist every 13 minutes. It won't work.

Boogie has 4 assists. Jayden also has 4 assists. DJ has 5 assists. Unless Boogie all of a sudden becomes Kyrie Irving, right now he is the last guy that should be running the point. LQ has more assists than Baugh

While I was typing I saw the last sentence...

Quote:The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

You argued that we played in the national championship game in the 2009 season; so there's that.

Who do you think should be the primary PG on this team?
I thought LQ did really well at the role last game. He could be an answer and this experience may help when we play tougher teams. Boogie IMO should get a shot at it as well; he will have a significant learning curve but may bode well for future seasons. Lomax IMO is a solid backup PG and he's the type of kid that will embrace that role well.

I'm yelling at the screen for Penny to get Lomax out at the end games like everyone else, when he isn't playing well. LQ and Baugh are so different, but they are both the same when they play teams with athletic guards. LQ is too slow, and Baugh's handle isn't good enough.

I think you keep doing what you're doing until someone emerges out of the three. You for sure don't give anyone the keys to the car and let them play 30 minutes. None of them have shown that they can perform at a sustained level at any time.

The Arkansas State game was a huge disappointment. Against a bad opponent, that was the perfect opportunity for either Baugh or Boogie to have a complete game. Score the ball, run the offense, and get everyone involved. It was the perfect practice game.

What happens? Baugh and Boogie combine for 2 assists in 43 minutes against an opponent that is overmatched. Boogie hasn't had a single game this year with more than 2 assists. Baugh has had one game with more than 2 assists. Lomax has had at least 3 assists in every game.

So my opinion is that you keep splitting the minutes the same way, and play whoever is having the best game, more than the other two.

You have to stop just looking at the stats. The stats don't tell the story. You have to watch the games and let your eyes do the work. If after 4 games you can't watch this team and see that Baugh is head and shoulders better than Lomax and should be the PG and get the majority of mins there, then there is no point in debating this any longer.

It shouldn't be give the mins to the guy who is having the better game that particular night. That's what got this team in the mess last year and it will get them in a mess this year.

This point forward it should be Baugh gets the majority of the mins at PG. End of story. Only way that should change is if Baugh is in foul trouble or hurt.

After that Boogie and Lomax should split whatever mins are left.

The constant shuffling of players destroys any opportunity for guys to 1) know their roles, 2) get comfortable in their roles, 3) develop chemistry and cohesiveness with each other, and 4) to know how many mins they will play night in and night out.


At the end of the day we all want the same thing, for this team to live up to their expectations.

(12-04-2020 02:55 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 12:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 12:13 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 09:37 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-04-2020 08:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG. The Peter principle has caught up with Alo. Recognizing his effort, nonetheless, he just lacks the skills to consistently help Memphis become a good, consist program that has been unable to make the tourney with Alo getting the major minutes at PG - that's the bottom line. He's not a facilitator, his attempts to penetrate rarely result in points, he's an unreliable shooter that defenses ignore. His defense, despite his tenacity, allows taller players to shoot over him. His on-ball defense is poor (he can't keep his guy from beating him to the basket). And he's had 2 full seasons with majority minutes at PG to improve without much change (especially in terms of team wins). We have to get Baugh & Boogie the majority minutes at PG & hope they improve & grow according to the potential their recruiting rankings indicated. Penny has to get past his 10-11 man rotations & give the top 7-8 guys the major minutes. That would improve their confidence, hone their skills & improve results over the season making us competitive by season's end. This debate reminds me in principle of Fuente deciding to start Lynch over an experienced but skill-limited senior QB, Jacob Karam. You have to commit to the younger, more talented guys & get them the major game minutes if you want too move the team to a higher level over the course of the season. Virtually all of the media see this, and most around the program but Penny's loyalty to Alo is hurting this program. The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

Quote:AR St is not the level of competition you determine skills & talents of those that might play the point but it's a good place to begin to move towards Baugh & Boogie taking over the major minutes at PG.

I didn't bother to read the rest of whatever gibberish that was that you couldn't even separate into paragraphs. Let's focus on this. They played 43 minutes and had 2 assists. They had 4 assists in 54 minutes against St. Mary's.

Boogie and Baugh are averaging 3 assists per 40 minutes. Lomax is averaging 7.5. You can't have point guards averaging less than 1 assist every 13 minutes. It won't work.

Boogie has 4 assists. Jayden also has 4 assists. DJ has 5 assists. Unless Boogie all of a sudden becomes Kyrie Irving, right now he is the last guy that should be running the point. LQ has more assists than Baugh

While I was typing I saw the last sentence...

Quote:The only ones to argue otherwise are always going to support the Memphis players despite what they see & those that would argue the earth is flat just to argue.

You argued that we played in the national championship game in the 2009 season; so there's that.

Who do you think should be the primary PG on this team?
I thought LQ did really well at the role last game. He could be an answer and this experience may help when we play tougher teams. Boogie IMO should get a shot at it as well; he will have a significant learning curve but may bode well for future seasons. Lomax IMO is a solid backup PG and he's the type of kid that will embrace that role well.

I'm yelling at the screen for Penny to get Lomax out at the end games like everyone else, when he isn't playing well. LQ and Baugh are so different, but they are both the same when they play teams with athletic guards. LQ is too slow, and Baugh's handle isn't good enough.

I think you keep doing what you're doing until someone emerges out of the three. You for sure don't give anyone the keys to the car and let them play 30 minutes. None of them have shown that they can perform at a sustained level at any time.

The Arkansas State game was a huge disappointment. Against a bad opponent, that was the perfect opportunity for either Baugh or Boogie to have a complete game. Score the ball, run the offense, and get everyone involved. It was the perfect practice game.

What happens? Baugh and Boogie combine for 2 assists in 43 minutes against an opponent that is overmatched. Boogie hasn't had a single game this year with more than 2 assists. Baugh has had one game with more than 2 assists. Lomax has had at least 3 assists in every game.

So my opinion is that you keep splitting the minutes the same way, and play whoever is having the best game, more than the other two.

You have to stop just looking at the stats. The stats don't tell the story. You have to watch the games and let your eyes do the work. If after 4 games you can't watch this team and see that Baugh is head and shoulders better than Lomax and should be the PG and get the majority of mins there, then there is no point in debating this any longer.

It shouldn't be give the mins to the guy who is having the better game that particular night. That's what got this team in the mess last year and it will get them in a mess this year.

This point forward it should be Baugh gets the majority of the mins at PG. End of story. Only way that should change is if Baugh is in foul trouble or hurt.

After that Boogie and Lomax should split whatever mins are left.

The constant shuffling of players destroys any opportunity for guys to 1) know their roles, 2) get comfortable in their roles, 3) develop chemistry and cohesiveness with each other, and 4) to know how many mins they will play night in and night out.


At the end of the day we all want the same thing, for this team to live up to their expectations.

More Stats:

Seems like a decent gap.

St Mary's
ALo + 15
Baugh + 10
Boogie +19

WKU
ALo -9
Baugh -3
Boogie +1

VCU
Alo -17
Baugh +5
Boogie -7

ASU
Alo +10
Baugh +24
Boogie +3

Season
Baugh + 36
Lomax -1
Boogie +16

Comparing just assists is fools gold.

Alo has one role on this team and that is to get the ball to scorers. When he is in he is 100% pass first, pass second and shoot only when wide open...

Baugh is defense and push the pace of play. He reminds me of a Patrick Beverly type guard. He needs to become a better shooter but he is our best perimeter defender and is probably best option for a "point guard". He is being asked to push the pace first and get the defense out of position.

Boogie is not being asked to come in and pass, so of course his assists numbers are low. He is a Lou Williams type of guard. His role is not coming in and distributing the ball. He is being asked to come in and score the ball. He is being told to be shoot first, drive second, pass third.

I am willing to bet if you looked at "hockey assists" Boogie and Baugh would be very high, hence their much higher plus/minus rates. When you drive and break a defense down there is often a pass out and then a swing pass after that results in an open shot. There is no stat for that in basketball but breaking the defense down on the front end is what results in the basket on the back end.

My opinion is that playing time should be limited for Alo, 8 minutes a game. Lester is probably our best shot at a "pure PG" in terms of running an offense, controlling tempo, getting us in sets and making the right decision. I like Baugh and Boogie in their current roles but I do think if directed both could be good point guards. Boogie will always be a scorer first so Baugh is probably the better option for a pure PG type player of the two.

Man oh man

How do you measure a point guard who's reluctant to shoot a 3 once in a while just to unclog the lane from everyone sagging. It's obvious he has no confidence in his shot and he's getting worse.

A-low is a backup point guard who's not near as good as Andre Allen was as a backup point guard.

I don't think it's a stretch to say it's by far our weakest position. We really don't have any options either. Dribble and shoot Boogie, or bad hands Baugh won't cut it either. Nolley is good, but he's a black hole once the ball gets in his hands. LQ?