(11-10-2020 11:38 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:09 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I for one am disappointed that Jerry already committed to putting Dalton back at the starting spot over Gilbert. The Cowboys reddit reads similar.

Was rather surprised Gilbert did as well as he did. He was noticeably smoother than Ben.


That said, if the above bolded sentence is true, that's a big problem. Did JJ come out in print or an tv interview and say that? McCarthy need to be making that call.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/when-...in-starter

Sorry, it was Stephen not Jerry. Apparently its just a matter of when Dalton is healthy again.

What were/are the plans for Dalton? I figured he was just a bandaid for a 1 season backup given the inexperience at the position this past summer but not sure if Daks injury changed any of those initial plans? I feel like best thing for Ben would be Gilbert beating out Dalton to ensure Dalton was gone after the 1 year and then Ben would slip back to #3 pending any draftees/UDFAs.

(11-10-2020 12:15 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 11:38 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:09 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I for one am disappointed that Jerry already committed to putting Dalton back at the starting spot over Gilbert. The Cowboys reddit reads similar.

Was rather surprised Gilbert did as well as he did. He was noticeably smoother than Ben.


That said, if the above bolded sentence is true, that's a big problem. Did JJ come out in print or an tv interview and say that? McCarthy need to be making that call.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/when-...in-starter

Sorry, it was Stephen not Jerry. Apparently its just a matter of when Dalton is healthy again.

What were/are the plans for Dalton? I figured he was just a bandaid for a 1 season backup given the inexperience at the position this past summer but not sure if Daks injury changed any of those initial plans? I feel like best thing for Ben would be Gilbert beating out Dalton to ensure Dalton was gone after the 1 year and then Ben would slip back to #3 pending any draftees/UDFAs.

He probably was just signed as a "bandaid" considering it was a one year deal. Obviously whatever the original plan by the Cowboys was has probably been thrown out the window. If it was a two year deal I'd say it was a move for the Cowboys to let Dak go and draft a rookie and let Dalton show the rookie the reigns for a year. As much as I love Dak I dont think hes worth the money that he wants. You can't ask for Mahomes money unless you're Mahomes. Dak has lost a ton of leverage though due to the injury so maybe we resign him for a more reasonable price. He should've taken the money.

As for Dinucci, I think he'll stay #3 regardless of if Gilbert or Dalton wins the backup job. If Gilbert wins it I'm not sure Dalton would let himself be relegated to 3rd string when he could be a backup for a lot of teams. If Dalton keeps the backup spot then a bunch of teams will try to jump on Gilbert. Either way I think Dinucci is career as a Cowboys is "safe".

(11-10-2020 01:08 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 12:15 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 11:38 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:09 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I for one am disappointed that Jerry already committed to putting Dalton back at the starting spot over Gilbert. The Cowboys reddit reads similar.

Was rather surprised Gilbert did as well as he did. He was noticeably smoother than Ben.


That said, if the above bolded sentence is true, that's a big problem. Did JJ come out in print or an tv interview and say that? McCarthy need to be making that call.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/when-...in-starter

Sorry, it was Stephen not Jerry. Apparently its just a matter of when Dalton is healthy again.

What were/are the plans for Dalton? I figured he was just a bandaid for a 1 season backup given the inexperience at the position this past summer but not sure if Daks injury changed any of those initial plans? I feel like best thing for Ben would be Gilbert beating out Dalton to ensure Dalton was gone after the 1 year and then Ben would slip back to #3 pending any draftees/UDFAs.

He probably was just signed as a "bandaid" considering it was a one year deal. Obviously whatever the original plan by the Cowboys was has probably been thrown out the window. If it was a two year deal I'd say it was a move for the Cowboys to let Dak go and draft a rookie and let Dalton show the rookie the reigns for a year. As much as I love Dak I dont think hes worth the money that he wants. You can't ask for Mahomes money unless you're Mahomes. Dak has lost a ton of leverage though due to the injury so maybe we resign him for a more reasonable price. He should've taken the money.

As for Dinucci, I think he'll stay #3 regardless of if Gilbert or Dalton wins the backup job. If Gilbert wins it I'm not sure Dalton would let himself be relegated to 3rd string when he could be a backup for a lot of teams. If Dalton keeps the backup spot then a bunch of teams will try to jump on Gilbert. Either way I think Dinucci is career as a Cowboys is "safe".

I think Dak actually has more leverage now. He can go to Jerry and point out how they had one of the top offenses in the league and he was playing at an MVP caliber prior to his injury. Since then Dallas has 2 TDs in 4 games

I'm also not so sure about Dinucci. I agree that if dalton stays a team will probably pick up Gilbert or vice versa but i really think Ben's performance and the subsequent social media blasting of Dinucci left a bad taste in Jerry's mouth

(11-10-2020 12:30 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-09-2020 08:40 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  23-43 (53.5%) 219 yards 0 TD 0 INT 67.9 rating
21-38 (55.3%) 243 yards 1 TD 1 INT 72.6 rating

Well those stats may be comparable, but they are also Ben's season stats.

Well thanks for the term paper, but you originally responded to my post saying “Gilbert Grapes number do not look much better than Ben’s.” I said his numbers weren’t much better, I didn’t say they had to be in a start, even with his whopping 3 throws against WFT it makes the season totals comparable. No doubt we’d like to see better numbers out of Ben, no doubt he’d like to have a few of those throws back, but the point being made numerous times if the playcalling didn’t allow for him to have great success. They treated him like a CB or WR being thrown into mop-up duty as the emergency QB and not a guy they had all week to come up with a game plan. That’s the best they could do with a game plan?!? He could’ve done better with the limited opportunity but the fact remains they failed him.

(11-10-2020 01:08 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 12:15 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 11:38 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 10:09 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I for one am disappointed that Jerry already committed to putting Dalton back at the starting spot over Gilbert. The Cowboys reddit reads similar.

Was rather surprised Gilbert did as well as he did. He was noticeably smoother than Ben.


That said, if the above bolded sentence is true, that's a big problem. Did JJ come out in print or an tv interview and say that? McCarthy need to be making that call.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/when-...in-starter

Sorry, it was Stephen not Jerry. Apparently its just a matter of when Dalton is healthy again.

What were/are the plans for Dalton? I figured he was just a bandaid for a 1 season backup given the inexperience at the position this past summer but not sure if Daks injury changed any of those initial plans? I feel like best thing for Ben would be Gilbert beating out Dalton to ensure Dalton was gone after the 1 year and then Ben would slip back to #3 pending any draftees/UDFAs.

He probably was just signed as a "bandaid" considering it was a one year deal. Obviously whatever the original plan by the Cowboys was has probably been thrown out the window. If it was a two year deal I'd say it was a move for the Cowboys to let Dak go and draft a rookie and let Dalton show the rookie the reigns for a year. As much as I love Dak I dont think hes worth the money that he wants. You can't ask for Mahomes money unless you're Mahomes. Dak has lost a ton of leverage though due to the injury so maybe we resign him for a more reasonable price. He should've taken the money.

As for Dinucci, I think he'll stay #3 regardless of if Gilbert or Dalton wins the backup job. If Gilbert wins it I'm not sure Dalton would let himself be relegated to 3rd string when he could be a backup for a lot of teams. If Dalton keeps the backup spot then a bunch of teams will try to jump on Gilbert. Either way I think Dinucci is career as a Cowboys is "safe".

If Dak had asked for Mahomes money I'd agree with you. Whether betting on himself at the time negotiations broke down was smart is arguable; in the rearview mirror, looking through the lens of a pandemic that's going to make the salary cap go down for the first time ever and his season-ending injury it doesn't look that way.

The thing working in DiNucci's favor is that teams are reluctant to bail on picks, even low-round ones, without a chance to right the player's trajectory. The Cowboys seemed to give up on him because they thought they needed a bridge to Dalton's return and remaining competitive enough in the division; I think their problems are greater than that, but I'm not a billionaire sports team owner/GM. It's just too soon to say what will happen in the offseason, though.

(11-10-2020 06:37 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 12:30 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-09-2020 08:40 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  23-43 (53.5%) 219 yards 0 TD 0 INT 67.9 rating
21-38 (55.3%) 243 yards 1 TD 1 INT 72.6 rating

Well those stats may be comparable, but they are also Ben's season stats.

Well thanks for the term paper, but you originally responded to my post saying “Gilbert Grapes number do not look much better than Ben’s.” I said his numbers weren’t much better, I didn’t say they had to be in a start, even with his whopping 3 throws against WFT it makes the season totals comparable. No doubt we’d like to see better numbers out of Ben, no doubt he’d like to have a few of those throws back, but the point being made numerous times if the playcalling didn’t allow for him to have great success. They treated him like a CB or WR being thrown into mop-up duty as the emergency QB and not a guy they had all week to come up with a game plan. That’s the best they could do with a game plan?!? He could’ve done better with the limited opportunity but the fact remains they failed him.

One possible answer is that Kellen Moore is inexperienced as an offensive coordinator and was unable to quickly come up with a plan to maximize the strengths of his QB with everything else going on with the team. The team's playcalling was criticized last year, but much of that was laid at Jason Garrett's feet. It's also possible that McCarthy and even team higher-ups may have weighed in on the game plan for him.

Another possible answer is that they watched him in practice and adjusted the game plan to what we saw, for a player with his background who hadn't had a training camp and was working with a makeshift o-line. It would have been great for him if he'd had a debut like Tony Romo did, but Romo sat on the bench for several years before he first played. We all love DiNucci but this situation was a lot to ask of him.

(11-10-2020 12:30 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-09-2020 08:40 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  23-43 (53.5%) 219 yards 0 TD 0 INT 67.9 rating
21-38 (55.3%) 243 yards 1 TD 1 INT 72.6 rating

Pick wipes out the TD IMO, and while Ben would like to have some of those throws back they gave him a crappy game plan to work with. Running Zeke for a few, then a short pass or two would’ve gotten things rolling much better than gimmick after gimmick and then trying to make something happen on 3rd and long when you could’ve let him get something going with the short game was poor coaching.

Well those stats may be comparable, but they are also Ben's season stats. So looking at their games as starters:
21-40 (52.5%); 180 yards passing + 22 yards rushing - 48 on sacks = 154 net yards; 0 TD 0 INT 2 FUMB = net -2; 64.6 passer rating; 21.7 QBR
21-38 (55.3%); 243 yards passing + 28 yards rushing - 23 on sacks = 248 net yards; 1 TD 1 INT 0 FUMB = net 0; 72.6 passer rating; 62.3 QBR

Why should we excuse Ben's 2 fumbles as terrible Oline play but blame Gilbert for throwing an INT in the endzone on 3rd and goal when an untouched MLB ran right thru the middle of the line? If for some reason I agree that 2 turnovers = 1 turnover, are you going to tell me that 0 TDs is the same as 1?

Ben had 126 passing yards until 1:50 left in the game down by 2 TDs. He had 93 net yards in the first 58 minutes. Given Ben got 13 passing yards earlier in the game from a pass at the line of scrimmage on a 3rd and 17, Ben's none garbage time/play passing yards may have been under 100 for the game.

I'll allow you to think that 1 stat in isolation is comparable, but as a whole, it isn't even close (in that there isn't a single stat that Ben did better in). 243 meaningful passing yards > 113. 1 TD > 0. 1 Turnover > 2. 2 sack for 23 yards > 4 for 48. 62.3 QBR > 21.7.

The gameplay wasn't comparable either. Ben led an offense to 9 points on 3 long FGs (49, 49 and 59). Two of those drives were less than 15 yards. Gilbert's offense scored twice as many points on an opponent giving up a TD less per game. Gilbert led them on four 50+ yard scoring drives (Ben zero). On Gilbert's TD drive he scrambled for 26 yards, passed for 36 and Ezekiel had a 3 yard rush. Gilbert was responsible for more yards on that single TD drive than Nooch was on all three of his scoring drives (25, 11 and 10).

Could some of it been attributed to better supporting plan (even though Zek and Pollard averaged 4 yards a rush in both games)? Absolutely. Do I expect more from a guy that has been in the league for 6 years than a rookie 7th round QB in COVID era with no preseason? Absolutely. Did Ben get the very short end of the stick with Dak and Dalton going down before he had the time to develop that is expected for a 7th rounder? Absolutely. My support of Nooch is well documented (go back to his thread to see my overwhelming support for him during the 2018 season and AFTER the season when everyone was shitting on him for 5 picks), but just look at what people are talking about after the games, Ben is being compared to uncle rico, while people are debating if Gilbert should stay at #1 when Dalton is back.

Gilbert got much better protection against the Steelers than Nooch did against Philly. I look for Gilbert to underwhelm. Dalton will probably start again and Gilbert will be #2. Nooch could get another shot in Dallas, but I doubt it. He is a very capable and talented QB. Hopefully, he finds a good NFL home or is given another chance to shine in Dallas. I believe Nooch is a good bit better than Gilbert, but that doesn't matter. What matters is how the Jones' see it.

(11-10-2020 06:37 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(11-10-2020 12:30 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(11-09-2020 08:40 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  23-43 (53.5%) 219 yards 0 TD 0 INT 67.9 rating
21-38 (55.3%) 243 yards 1 TD 1 INT 72.6 rating

Well those stats may be comparable, but they are also Ben's season stats.

Well thanks for the term paper, but you originally responded to my post saying “Gilbert Grapes number do not look much better than Ben’s.” I said his numbers weren’t much better, I didn’t say they had to be in a start, even with his whopping 3 throws against WFT it makes the season totals comparable. No doubt we’d like to see better numbers out of Ben, no doubt he’d like to have a few of those throws back, but the point being made numerous times if the playcalling didn’t allow for him to have great success. They treated him like a CB or WR being thrown into mop-up duty as the emergency QB and not a guy they had all week to come up with a game plan. That’s the best they could do with a game plan?!? He could’ve done better with the limited opportunity but the fact remains they failed him.

I'm not sure what you didn't get; the stats are not comparable when you apply the most basic level of reasoning to them. The fact you want to quote only the some of the stats shows you are wearing some purple tinted glasses. If you want to cherrypick some stats to try and make the two appear comparable sure, you can do that, but to draw conclusions for that would be inappropriate.

I'm not wasting my time to look it up but in the ~145ish games played so far, and of those ~290ish QBRs, my guess is Ben's QBR from the Philly game is in the bottom 5.

And I’m not sure what you don’t get. I made a comment based on the numbers I cited and you want to spin it into something else. I can certainly remain objective and aren’t blinded by the purple goggles. Bottom line s he didn’t look great, but wasn’t put in with a gameplan that allowed him to shine.

(11-12-2020 09:56 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  And I’m not sure what you don’t get. I made a comment based on the numbers I cited and you want to spin it into something else. I can certainly remain objective and aren’t blinded by the purple goggles. Bottom line s he didn’t look great, but wasn’t put in with a gameplan that allowed him to shine.

Got it, so no reasoning was given at all, just straight passing numbers. In that case, let's just agree they played comparatively due to the simple fact that they both had Cowboy's uniforms on and we can call it a day.