(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

(10-28-2020 11:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 10:40 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 10:13 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:07 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  If Trump loses (and it is impossible to know right now) it will be because of people who do not yet contribute to the country substantially - people in their 20's who are in entry level positions or still live in their parents basement, and the old school generation who are now retired and/or about to.


They have no real skin in the game economically at the moment. The retired don't care about a job because they are done, and the youth don't have a grasp on the ramifications if they do not start filling up the work force.

The vast majority of youth thinks they will just get it handed to them - but if they aren't working, there is no tax based from which to give... and they have NO concept of that.


*****************

A complete economic crash is likely inevitable, but it will be accelerated with Harris in office. The only possible bright side is that this could become the final blow to Democratic politics ----- follow me for a minute.

As I said, an economic crisis seems inevitable - it is a matter of when not if. The flash point right now is Corona. Trump is in charge and it is really easy and 100% unprovable for anyone to claim that anyone would have handled it better. You can say I would have done so and so, but you simply cannot prove it would have been better - it is an illusion of rhetoric, but it is also believed by too many people.


Maybe with the inevitability of and economic tsunami, the Dems should be in charge when it happens. No matter what they do it will be futile for a long time and this one is going to hurt and leave some deep scars: The Republicans are now in a position to say "well we would have done better if we were in charge". Just like Corona, you can't really prove it, but it is an easy buy in because whatever the Dems do, it will not be enough.

It actually IS proveable that nobody could handle it any better because no western democracy is handling it significantly better. Cases are skyrocketing in Europe and several European nations are back in lock down,. It’s a pandemic. They are dreaded for a reason.

One thing you MUST understand, once a nation is heavily seeded with a virus, it’s too lake to use contact tracing and testing to control the virus. It appears we were seeded as far back as January—so we never really had a chance for testing and contact tracing to be effective. We didn’t even have working tests at that point.

The reality is it is a contagious virus that has no cure or vaccine and we were heavily seeded (especially in New York). As a leader, you have the same 3 weapons that every other nation has to fight it—shutdowns, social distancing, and pieces of fabrics. Shutdowns do as much or more damage than the disease (even the WHO now agrees with this)—so you really only have 2 weapons. So it’s not a surprise that every western nation’s plan looks about the same and is getting similar result.

Frankly, I this it’s fairly impressive that using nothing more than space and pieces of fabric, the US has cut anticipated deaths by about 90% while suffering less damage to our economy than any other western democracy. Biden’s campaign is full of crap with the claim “they would have done better”. That’s clearly false as Trumps China ban, which Biden opposed—is probably what prevented us from being even more heavily seeded early on.

The fact is Biden does not have a magic mask he can wave over the nation to rid it of covid—-just look at Europe and you’ll see slightly improved levels of mask wearing won’t make any significant difference in the way the virus spreads in a community. The best you can do is to control it enough that your hospitals do not get overwhelmed—that at least means anyone who falls seriously ill can get proper medical care which—which is the key to keeping the mortality rate as low as possible. All we can do is keep the death rate down (by not allowing our hospitals to be overwhelmed) until a vaccine or cure is found.

Coog - I cannot argue with any of that, the problem is that everyone else does. Monday morning QB is the American way! And most people are too f-ing stupid to realize that. Can you PROVE IT? You really cannot it is a rhetorical. The simple fact is if Biden could prove his plan would have saved just one more life than Trump - he would have in fact done better.... and that is the bullschidt he and the Dems are peddling and their lunatic base is sucking up like a Hoover Deluxe.

The Dems STILL have not come out with any real plan other than NOT TRUMP or somethign that looks A LOT like Trump but in a different wrapper. Their entire message is akin to playing Monday Morning QB.

Short of shutting down the entire planet for 30 days, nobody can do anything to stop the Rona until there is a vaccine - and that is simply not happening. If anyone says they can stop it without a vaccine they are full of shidt.

Its NEVER been a question about saving ONE more life. Its not arguable that staying in total lock down all year would have lowered the death count from Covid (but it was likely it would kill more over the long term due to economic damage and pervasive poverty--but those deaths would be down the road).

Thus, the key has always been balancing the response and the associated economic damage in a way that makes sense. We cut deaths by 90% and did the least damage to our economy than most any western democracy. Thats about all you can ask for. While that seems lost on the media---the fact is---people seem to understand that at some level because--despite the fact fewer would die of Covid if we locked down again---another lockdown has VERY LITTLE support among the people. In fact--some recent polling is showing the move toward Trump since the debate is as much about the fear Biden will lock us down again as it is about Biden's oil gaffe.

We are on the same page boss.... but there are far too many dumb people that will never ever understand this (or have been frozen by fear).

Camela-toe and Joe have made two big mistakes.... the Fracking statement and the national Mask mandate

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

(10-28-2020 09:09 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:45 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:30 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  For a retired guy like me my life changes very little, regardless of who wins the White House. I sit here on my mountaintop reading, praying and playing with my grandchildren and fiancé. Most of the time my lifestyle would make Ted Kaczynski jealous.

I’m set no matter what happens. I have to admit I support Trump because of the triggered Left. The reaction of the fragile leftists in November 2016 was so enjoyable I want a damn sequel.

I wouldn't feel quite so safe.

They can take your 401K. They are talking about taxing your home at 3% of its value with a national tax.

You're not safe. You just have less years to suffer.

I took everything out of my 401K when I retired in 2018. Unless my bank fails, I’m good.

#smart

that allows the op to divest/invest as req'd based how taxation progresses....

@birdinthehand

(10-28-2020 04:13 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

again, overall, unemployment was dropping at a steady rate after we got out of the recession

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-si...t-rate.htm

Do you want to try and disprove anything I've said with actual facts, or do you just want to post more edited youtube videos to be selective in your data?

If you want to talk GDP, Here is another link
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1

another steady rise throughout the Obama admin. Trump took over a growing economy that had shrinking unemployment. Stop pretending he took over a crap economy or that he did something that nobody else could have done.


Not only that, even with Trump inheriting a growing economy, he couldn't even fix the national debt, which he said would be easy.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1878...ince-1990/

(10-28-2020 04:13 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

Actually GDP was in a free fall after the stimulus ran out and Obama's policy began to take over with no solutions in place. Trump increased GDP growth overnight after Obama's print money economy had begun to stagnate.To say GDP growth at 4% is a good thing coming out of what the left called a Depression is weak sauce. If we had 4% growth coming out of the covid recession everyone would be calling for Trumps head.
Quarterly GDP chart for end of Obama start of Trump

(10-28-2020 04:33 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  again, overall, unemployment was dropping at a steady rate after we got out of the recession
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-si...t-rate.htm
Do you want to try and disprove anything I've said with actual facts, or do you just want to post more edited youtube videos to be selective in your data?
If you want to talk GDP, Here is another link
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1
another steady rise throughout the Obama admin. Trump took over a growing economy that had shrinking unemployment. Stop pretending he took over a crap economy or that he did something that nobody else could have done.
Not only that, even with Trump inheriting a growing economy, he couldn't even fix the national debt, which he said would be easy.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1878...ince-1990/

The way economic cycles work, it's actually easier to obtain growth coming out of the bottom of a recession than it is in an economy that has been growing, even modestly, for several years. Obama's growth rates were much slower than typically experienced coming out of a reception, particularly a deep recession that we went into in a hurry. There's actually a pretty strong Keynesian argument that says that's what you want--to get away from peaks and valleys, slow down an economy that's growing and stimulate one that is contracting. Of course, politically it's pretty bad to be perceived as slowing down the economy, so what Obama was really doing between huge deficits and quantitative easing was pumping huge amounts into the economy to get it to sustain the puny growth rate that it was generating.

As far as the deficit and debt no matter who is in the White House, that's a congressional issue and both parties are pretty much equally at fault. The only way that I can see to address it is to 1) increase revenues by imposing a national consumption tax and 2) cut expenditures by going to a much lower overhead approach to welfare (UBI based on Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund, plus Bismarck health care), defense (77% of our defense budget it overhead), and any other expenditure items. Actually, that 77% number is pretty close to overhead across the board for federal programs--there's a reason why the top 3 counties for household income, and 7 of the top 12, are in the DC Metro area, and it's not because they are producing many useful products.

(10-28-2020 08:07 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  If Trump loses (and it is impossible to know right now) it will be because of people who do not yet contribute to the country substantially - people in their 20's who are in entry level positions or still live in their parents basement, and the old school generation who are now retired and/or about to.


They have no real skin in the game economically at the moment. The retired don't care about a job because they are done, and the youth don't have a grasp on the ramifications if they do not start filling up the work force.

The vast majority of youth thinks they will just get it handed to them - but if they aren't working, there is no tax based from which to give... and they have NO concept of that.


*****************

A complete economic crash is likely inevitable, but it will be accelerated with Harris in office. The only possible bright side is that this could become the final blow to Democratic politics ----- follow me for a minute.

As I said, an economic crisis seems inevitable - it is a matter of when not if. The flash point right now is Corona. Trump is in charge and it is really easy and 100% unprovable for anyone to claim that anyone would have handled it better. You can say I would have done so and so, but you simply cannot prove it would have been better - it is an illusion of rhetoric, but it is also believed by too many people.


Maybe with the inevitability of and economic tsunami, the Dems should be in charge when it happens. No matter what they do it will be futile for a long time and this one is going to hurt and leave some deep scars: The Republicans are now in a position to say "well we would have done better if we were in charge". Just like Corona, you can't really prove it, but it is an easy buy in because whatever the Dems do, it will not be enough.

Eldon, I’m just recently retired, but I can assure you I care a great deal about jobs as I have 3 offspring in the workforce and I sure as hell don’t want them unemployed.

Additionally, I (most on here think like me) know that “socialism”, policies touted by Biden/Harris doesn’t work and never has as it runs counter to human nature.

The fools that think they’re going to get “free stuff” are just that - fools. Nothing in life is free via government......they take from someone. The path down more and more government control is paved with failed states. The only ones that do well are the ones connected to the state. The “peasants” only solace is everyone is relatively equally miserable.

(10-28-2020 04:43 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:13 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 11:28 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

Actually GDP was in a free fall after the stimulus ran out and Obama's policy began to take over with no solutions in place. Trump increased GDP growth overnight after Obama's print money economy had begun to stagnate.To say GDP growth at 4% is a good thing coming out of what the left called a Depression is weak sauce. If we had 4% growth coming out of the covid recession everyone would be calling for Trumps head.
Quarterly GDP chart for end of Obama start of Trump

GDP growth hasn't been consistently around 4% since clinton.

Trumps first year it was 2.1 2.2 2.4 and 2.7
Yeah, his second year it was solid, but last year it was back to 2.3 2.0 2.1 and 2.3

I'm sorry, but the numbers just do not show that he is some economic wizard that he claims to be.

overall gdp was on a steady climb throughout obama's last years in office overall. That continued through trump's first 3 years.

Can't wait to read this Barry lover's defense of this ....

(10-28-2020 04:17 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 09:09 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:45 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 08:30 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  For a retired guy like me my life changes very little, regardless of who wins the White House. I sit here on my mountaintop reading, praying and playing with my grandchildren and fiancé. Most of the time my lifestyle would make Ted Kaczynski jealous.

I’m set no matter what happens. I have to admit I support Trump because of the triggered Left. The reaction of the fragile leftists in November 2016 was so enjoyable I want a damn sequel.

I wouldn't feel quite so safe.

They can take your 401K. They are talking about taxing your home at 3% of its value with a national tax.

You're not safe. You just have less years to suffer.

I took everything out of my 401K when I retired in 2018. Unless my bank fails, I’m good.

#smart

that allows the op to divest/invest as req'd based how taxation progresses....

@birdinthehand

Exactly
I worked almost 45 years.
It may seem simplistic but I wanted control of what I had earned.

(10-28-2020 04:56 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:43 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:13 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

Actually GDP was in a free fall after the stimulus ran out and Obama's policy began to take over with no solutions in place. Trump increased GDP growth overnight after Obama's print money economy had begun to stagnate.To say GDP growth at 4% is a good thing coming out of what the left called a Depression is weak sauce. If we had 4% growth coming out of the covid recession everyone would be calling for Trumps head.
Quarterly GDP chart for end of Obama start of Trump

GDP growth hasn't been consistently around 4% since clinton.

Trumps first year it was 2.1 2.2 2.4 and 2.7
Yeah, his second year it was solid, but last year it was back to 2.3 2.0 2.1 and 2.3

I'm sorry, but the numbers just do not show that he is some economic wizard that he claims to be.

overall gdp was on a steady climb throughout obama's last years in office overall. That continued through trump's first 3 years.

You obviously didn't read my link and just contradicted your post I replied to. GDP was falling when Trump won the election. You make no point. Trump did EXACTLY what Obama said he couldn't do because, by God, the Great Emperor Obama wasn't able to. There really isn't nothing else to say on the matter.

(10-28-2020 08:18 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  what exactly makes you think the economy would tank? The economy didn't tank under Obama, and we got out of a recession that started under the Bush admin. The economy did well under Clinton.
The economy was already on an upward Trend when Trump took office, which would have been a great time to cut the deficit and the debt, which he couldn't do.


Also, I would say that the numbers lean to the republicans needing to be the ones who need to substantially adjust. This is the last election where boomer voters will outnumber Millennial and Gen Z voters. So now we are talking about a generational shift in voters, which likely hurts the GOP even more.

I like that. Started under Bush huh?

Try going back a little further.. you know when the .com market crashed.. when glass-steagall act was repealed and the fan was hit.. and the housing market crashed and all the people living in houses they couldnt afford were foreclosed on...

yeah.. started under Bush alright.

President Obama in three words: cocky, lazy, inept.

And if John Durham ever gets around to doing his job, we will be able to add a fourth: corrupt.

(10-28-2020 04:56 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:43 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:13 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 04:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(10-28-2020 03:45 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  feel free to explain what you think that I said was humorous or incorrect

ok?

The graph at the 28 second mark shows that unemployment was trending downward, and had been for years. The trend continued with Trump in office.

Obama had a great GDP over 4%, 4 times. Trump has done it once.

Actually GDP was in a free fall after the stimulus ran out and Obama's policy began to take over with no solutions in place. Trump increased GDP growth overnight after Obama's print money economy had begun to stagnate.To say GDP growth at 4% is a good thing coming out of what the left called a Depression is weak sauce. If we had 4% growth coming out of the covid recession everyone would be calling for Trumps head.
Quarterly GDP chart for end of Obama start of Trump

GDP growth hasn't been consistently around 4% since clinton.

Trumps first year it was 2.1 2.2 2.4 and 2.7
Yeah, his second year it was solid, but last year it was back to 2.3 2.0 2.1 and 2.3

I'm sorry, but the numbers just do not show that he is some economic wizard that he claims to be.

overall gdp was on a steady climb throughout obama's last years in office overall. That continued through trump's first 3 years.

Growth doesnt happen in a vacuum. The Fed interest rates were falling throught the first two years of the Obama administration and stayed flat through 2015. Rates ROSE throughout the last year of Obama (thats why his growth dropped off so badly his last year). Rates continued rising during virtually the ENTIRE Trump Administration until around late 2019. Thus, be it interest rates or pandemic---the Trump administration has managed superior growth, the lowest unemployment, and a dramatic rise in median wages--despite a constant head wind. Trumps performance is actually pretty impressive given the landscape he was working in.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-stat...erest-rate

(10-28-2020 05:02 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Can't wait to read this Barry lover's defense of this ....

Come on now, surely you aren't going to let this pass without a thorough defense of your Chosen One on what he is saying in that video.

(10-28-2020 04:33 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  again, overall, unemployment was dropping at a steady rate after we got out of the recession

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-si...t-rate.htm

Do you want to try and disprove anything I've said with actual facts, or do you just want to post more edited youtube videos to be selective in your data?

If you want to talk GDP, Here is another link
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1

another steady rise throughout the Obama admin. Trump took over a growing economy that had shrinking unemployment. Stop pretending he took over a crap economy or that he did something that nobody else could have done.


Not only that, even with Trump inheriting a growing economy, he couldn't even fix the national debt, which he said would be easy.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1878...ince-1990/

Instead of some graph I’ll just point out here that 56% of people think they are better off now....in the middle of this over hyped pandemic. Maybe the graph is right or wrong but I think this shows the difference between Barry’s new normal and Trump’s vision of America winning.