You know, I like eating to. Somehow I don’t think killing the oil industry is gonna keep me knee deep in Cheerios. And if I’m hungry I dare think what it will be like for the third world. But hey, that’s another part of their plan isn’t it?

I support moving to alternatives when we have alternatives that work. But abandoning fossil fuels to move to nothing seems a very stupid strategy.

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

The world didnt move to electricity until the technology was plentiful and innovation was relatively cheap. Also, forget not what fueled early electric generation and what continues to fuel the vast majority.

As a side note, moving to electric lights in residences rather than kerosene lamps was primarily driven when Edison invented a less-bright incandescent bulb that could light a room.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

(10-25-2020 09:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I support moving to alternatives when we have alternatives that work. But abandoning fossil fuels to move to nothing seems a very stupid strategy.

"by 2025" - sloe ginned joeseppi

not only is it unrealistic, but the residual impact would be crippling....

does anyone still think voting third party is 'valid'....hmmmmmmm, I can't figure out the "whys"....

#cheeky

(10-24-2020 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, genius- move to what?

What currently works well enough and stable enough to fuel this massive economy, Country and its people?

Califa has tried on a pretty enormous scale and they can’t keep the lights on when it’s 104 deg outside. Can’t even run a fan, much less the A/C.

So, what did people do? Fired up their gas powered generators. Lol

Risking further fires and pumping all that glorious exhaust into the air.

Why you ask? Because all the windmills and mirrors in the world couldn’t keep up with the US power demands,

So, what are the Chinese or Germans going to trot out to put us in our place?


This should be good

Nuclear is the clear and logical answer. Just as coal and hydro powered electric generation plants drove the early expansion of electric power by providing cheap and reliable sources of power, nuclear can provide the bridge to reliable and cost effective renewables.

If the left was serious about climate change and pollution they would be pushing for nuclear projects in countries like china and India that do most of the polluting.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I hate how biased and stupid the media is. Today on ABC's "This Week" they claimed that its more likely Biden wins Texas than Trump wins any of the major swings states. Zero chance Biden wins here in Texas. Then later, they claim that Sloe Joe's oil debate gaffe probably doesnt hurt him in Texas because "more people are employed in the renewable energy industry in Texas than work in the oil and gas industry". Anyone who lives here knows that's not anywhere near being true. I looked it up. There are about 33K renewable energy jobs in Texas (a decent amount of jobs no doubt)---but its nothing compared to the 321,455 people directly employed by the oil and gas sector in Texas. If you include indirectly related jobs, that figure soars to 2 million Texas jobs. Thats seventeen percent of all Texas jobs directly or indirectly related to oil and gas----or roughly about 1 in 6 Texas jobs. So--yeah---the oil gaffe will hurt Biden in Texas...."bigly".

(10-25-2020 10:23 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, genius- move to what?

What currently works well enough and stable enough to fuel this massive economy, Country and its people?

Califa has tried on a pretty enormous scale and they can’t keep the lights on when it’s 104 deg outside. Can’t even run a fan, much less the A/C.

So, what did people do? Fired up their gas powered generators. Lol

Risking further fires and pumping all that glorious exhaust into the air.

Why you ask? Because all the windmills and mirrors in the world couldn’t keep up with the US power demands,

So, what are the Chinese or Germans going to trot out to put us in our place?


This should be good

Nuclear is the clear and logical answer. Just as coal and hydro powered electric generation plants drove the early expansion of electric power by providing cheap and reliable sources of power, nuclear can provide the bridge to reliable and cost effective renewables.

If the left was serious about climate change and pollution they would be pushing for nuclear projects in countries like china and India that do most of the polluting.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

While I’m a fan of nuclear power, the safety protocols at Vogtle’s new Units having driven the construction 75% above budget. If Southern Company didn’t get approved from Georgia to pass the overage on in a rate increase the expansion would have been cancelled.

(10-25-2020 10:23 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, genius- move to what?

What currently works well enough and stable enough to fuel this massive economy, Country and its people?

Califa has tried on a pretty enormous scale and they can’t keep the lights on when it’s 104 deg outside. Can’t even run a fan, much less the A/C.

So, what did people do? Fired up their gas powered generators. Lol

Risking further fires and pumping all that glorious exhaust into the air.

Why you ask? Because all the windmills and mirrors in the world couldn’t keep up with the US power demands,

So, what are the Chinese or Germans going to trot out to put us in our place?


This should be good

Nuclear is the clear and logical answer. Just as coal and hydro powered electric generation plants drove the early expansion of electric power by providing cheap and reliable sources of power, nuclear can provide the bridge to reliable and cost effective renewables.

If the left was serious about climate change and pollution they would be pushing for nuclear projects in countries like china and India that do most of the polluting.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

But the left opposes nuclear also.

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

(10-24-2020 08:44 AM)No Bull Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:36 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  9.8 million jobs or 5.6 percent of total U.S. employment

It’s OK, because OMB.

There will be twice as many jobs maintaining wind farms and solar panels!!!

Exactly. Net out those who are already working in those fields.

(10-25-2020 09:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I support moving to alternatives when we have alternatives that work. But abandoning fossil fuels to move to nothing seems a very stupid strategy.

Not just stupid Owl. It would involve the government choosing to shut down one of the largest economic driving industries..if not maybe the largest. It would take tax dollars in the form of subsidies that have never been seen before to make this happen because the industry can not stand on itself without them. It would be an unmitigated disaster and destroy our economy based on science that is questionable at best...completely wrong at worse.

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

(10-25-2020 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

Exactly. When the new technology is cheap, efficient, and ecoomically acceptable to the population---the people will line up to voluntarily switch to the new technology. Here's what I'd do. I'd create a new Manhattan Project to look for new technologies that can be mass produced on a scale required to replace fossil fuels.

(10-25-2020 07:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

Exactly. When the new technology is cheap, efficient, and ecoomically acceptable to the population---the people will line up to voluntarily switch to the new technology. Here's what I'd do. I'd create a new Manhattan Project to look for new technologies that can be mass produced in on a scale required to replace fossil fuels.

Im fine with that if it is done privately..for profit. Im against funding for this stuff with my tax dollars simply because I believe the "sky is not falling". Is there climate change? Sure. I believe the vast part is cyclical and that human activity plays a small part. Also..if done privately for profit?...it will be done efficiently without the waste of the government apparatus. Im fine with reducing our carbon footprint and having clean air and water. I just want it done through the market paradigm.

I imagine the there are private think tanks outside of my knowledge working on this stuff right now. The profit potential for such advances is enormous.

(10-25-2020 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 07:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

Exactly. When the new technology is cheap, efficient, and ecoomically acceptable to the population---the people will line up to voluntarily switch to the new technology. Here's what I'd do. I'd create a new Manhattan Project to look for new technologies that can be mass produced in on a scale required to replace fossil fuels.

Im fine with that if it is done privately..for profit. Im against funding for this stuff with my tax dollars simply because I believe the "sky is not falling". Is there climate change? Sure. I believe the vast part is cyclical and that human activity plays a small part. Also..if done privately for profit?...it will be done efficiently without the waste of the government apparatus. Im fine with reducing our carbon footprint and having clean air and water. I just want it done through the market paradigm.

I imagine the there are private think tanks outside of my knowledge working on this stuff right now. The profit potential for such advances is enormous.

Doesn’t matter if the sky is falling. Oil is finite. We will eventually need a substitute. To me, it’s like space exploration. The space program allowed us to make a significant leap ahead of our competitors in various technologies. The first nation to figure out a cheaper alternative using plentiful raw materials that is economically viable and sustainable will have an economic advantage over everyone else.

(10-25-2020 09:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 07:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

Exactly. When the new technology is cheap, efficient, and ecoomically acceptable to the population---the people will line up to voluntarily switch to the new technology. Here's what I'd do. I'd create a new Manhattan Project to look for new technologies that can be mass produced in on a scale required to replace fossil fuels.

Im fine with that if it is done privately..for profit. Im against funding for this stuff with my tax dollars simply because I believe the "sky is not falling". Is there climate change? Sure. I believe the vast part is cyclical and that human activity plays a small part. Also..if done privately for profit?...it will be done efficiently without the waste of the government apparatus. Im fine with reducing our carbon footprint and having clean air and water. I just want it done through the market paradigm.

I imagine the there are private think tanks outside of my knowledge working on this stuff right now. The profit potential for such advances is enormous.

Doesn’t matter if the sky is falling. Oil is finite. We will eventually need a substitute. To me, it’s like space exploration. The space program allowed us to make a significant leap ahead of our competitors in various technologies. The first nation to figure out a cheaper alternative using plentiful raw materials that is economically viable and sustainable will have an economic advantage over everyone else.

Keep the government out of it except for tax incentives. When government does it, its politically favored companies, like Solyndra, that get the benefits.

(10-24-2020 06:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 06:25 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 02:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, genius- move to what?

What currently works well enough and stable enough to fuel this massive economy, Country and its people?

Califa has tried on a pretty enormous scale and they can’t keep the lights on when it’s 104 deg outside. Can’t even run a fan, much less the A/C.

So, what did people do? Fired up their gas powered generators. Lol

Risking further fires and pumping all that glorious exhaust into the air.

Why you ask? Because all the windmills and mirrors in the world couldn’t keep up with the US power demands,

So, what are the Chinese or Germans going to trot out to put us in our place?


This should be good

I’m not an engineer nor pretend to know, but I do know the race is on to find alternatives and we’ll either lead, or we’ll pay someone else.

Lol

Perfect. Beautiful.

You don’t know, but you do know the “race” is on.



Race is on to what? Is it a sprint or a marathon? Sackrace or three-legged?

C’MON MAN! Do better than that.

Is it biomass? Seaweed? Corn? Fat from deep fryers?

C’mon man. Who’s racing what?

We’re seeing significant advancements in electric cars, natural gas, wind and solar. Renewables have been growing at double digit clips now for the past decade... of course the race is on to replace fossil fuels... but the question no one knows is what will ultimately replace the combustion engine. 10-15 years ago would anyone think Tesla would be the most valuable car company in the world?

The race is on to pay more for energy?

Taxing and regulating fossil fuels will hit poor people the most, you do realize than most Americans don’t have more than 3k in their savings right?

(10-26-2020 08:49 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 06:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 06:25 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 02:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, genius- move to what?

What currently works well enough and stable enough to fuel this massive economy, Country and its people?

Califa has tried on a pretty enormous scale and they can’t keep the lights on when it’s 104 deg outside. Can’t even run a fan, much less the A/C.

So, what did people do? Fired up their gas powered generators. Lol

Risking further fires and pumping all that glorious exhaust into the air.

Why you ask? Because all the windmills and mirrors in the world couldn’t keep up with the US power demands,

So, what are the Chinese or Germans going to trot out to put us in our place?


This should be good

I’m not an engineer nor pretend to know, but I do know the race is on to find alternatives and we’ll either lead, or we’ll pay someone else.

Lol

Perfect. Beautiful.

You don’t know, but you do know the “race” is on.



Race is on to what? Is it a sprint or a marathon? Sackrace or three-legged?

C’MON MAN! Do better than that.

Is it biomass? Seaweed? Corn? Fat from deep fryers?

C’mon man. Who’s racing what?

We’re seeing significant advancements in electric cars, natural gas, wind and solar. Renewables have been growing at double digit clips now for the past decade... of course the race is on to replace fossil fuels... but the question no one knows is what will ultimately replace the combustion engine. 10-15 years ago would anyone think Tesla would be the most valuable car company in the world?

The race is on to pay more for energy?

Taxing and regulating fossil fuels will hit poor people the most, you do realize than most Americans don’t have more than 3k in their savings right?

they're fk'n idiots...

if tulips = ponzi, then removing oil from any equation = begging for a false god

#cannotFixStupid

disclaimer: I support investing in alt-eng/desalination where sensible...

(10-25-2020 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:54 PM)banker Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  At one point, people thought it crazy to move from kerosene to electricity. The world is changing and we’ll either lead or cling to our oil lamps and wait for the Chinese or Germans to do so.

Kerosene died due to the inferiority of the product. It was
Killed by competition and market forces. It was not shut down by the government to have an inferior and costlier alternative forced on the nation.

Yep...Just like the horse and buggy industry ended with the invention of the automobile. The marketplace changed the paradigm...not the government.

Coal oil replaced whale oil.

Kerosene replaced coal oil

Coal-fired electricity replaced kerosene.

But through it all, energy use increased. Fossil fuel production increased.

This is because ewer, more efficient energy sources replace older ones in many industries. For example, the biggest use of coal was was to replace wood as a heating source in homes. As late as 1940, 24% of homes were heated by wood and 55% by coal heaters. From the late 1930s-1960s, electricity and natural gas gradually replaced coal.