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Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.
10-19-2020 05:16 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.
10-19-2020 05:49 PM
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TribeDeac Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-19-2020 05:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.

Given the fact that there are only 15 schools still competing in Men's Gymnastics it seems like that is one that could do just as well at the Club level without to much outcry. Men's track and swimming have relatively large squads so the path for them is more difficult
10-19-2020 07:08 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
The path for track and swimming is simple.

Bring back one; add a women’s sport (and add the necessary roster spots to other women’s sports).

Bring back the second one; take roster spots from all of the male teams.

Title IX is satisfied.

It’s now about the dollars.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2020 07:23 PM by nj alum.)
10-19-2020 07:21 PM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
Here's what the Iowa swimmers have done with amending their Title IX lawsuit - they're telling the school to add more sports.

https://dailyiowan.com/2020/10/19/womens...complaint/
10-19-2020 09:24 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-19-2020 05:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.
I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved. The problem now is with money and fundraising. This may be an impossible task without multiple 10 million dollar gifts.
10-20-2020 06:18 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #47
Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
Of all things, I never would've guessed a Huge led department would not be Title 9 compliant.

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10-20-2020 07:36 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 06:18 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.
I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved. The problem now is with money and fundraising. This may be an impossible task without multiple 10 million dollar gifts.

I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved only if you agree that dropping four men's sports is the solution. If you think the sports are worthy of saving then that means other possible solutions need to be found.
10-20-2020 08:07 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 07:36 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Of all things, I never would've guessed a Huge led department would not be Title 9 compliant.

This aspect is not the Athletic Department's fault. The Administration keeps admitting ever-increasing percentages of women undergraduates and over time it makes it impossible to be in compliance with the "participation" factor.
10-20-2020 08:12 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 08:07 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 06:18 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:38 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I will be the contrarian.

I think it’s a brilliant first step.

The Title IX problem is off the table. The deck has been cleared in one fell swoop. It’s now all about money.

Now, all men’s sports have skin in the game ... roster spots, money, and individual teams. We’ll see if the men’s teams are truly One Tribe One Family. The formula has been spelled out today.

Put up or shut up time.

A good faith attempt is being made here. Let’s not blow it.

I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.
I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved. The problem now is with money and fundraising. This may be an impossible task without multiple 10 million dollar gifts.

I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved only if you agree that dropping four men's sports is the solution. If you think the sports are worthy of saving then that means other possible solutions need to be found.

The men's teams have been dropped. This isn't up for debate. If they are reinstated or other teams are added it will be done within Title IX (I hope)
10-20-2020 08:19 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
Zorch-

Tribe athletics found itself in a Gordian knot situation in which something had / has to give. NCAA rules and regs. Title IX compliance issues. Drastic reduction in donations. To name a few.

By resolving Title IX issues first, the Gordian knot has been cut.

A huge infusion of donations will save all of the teams.

How to increase donations? The Title IX decision to reinstate the women’s sports results in transparency and certainty. It creates leverage for the AD to lay out the financial case, which is happening tomorrow.

IMO, this is the best path forward ... it’s up to the Tribe community.

If the Tribe community can not handle this, then a shift to D-3, and the future of football, will increasingly be discussed, IMO.
10-20-2020 08:29 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 08:19 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 08:07 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 06:18 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 05:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I agree with you on this one 100%. The Title IX lawsuit was a distraction and not something to spend another dollar on. Problem solved. Call off the dogs.

Unfortunately, the problem is not solved. There are still four Men's sports on the chopping block.
I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved. The problem now is with money and fundraising. This may be an impossible task without multiple 10 million dollar gifts.

I was stating that the Title IX problem is solved only if you agree that dropping four men's sports is the solution. If you think the sports are worthy of saving then that means other possible solutions need to be found.

The men's teams have been dropped. This isn't up for debate. If they are reinstated or other teams are added it will be done within Title IX (I hope)

We're debating it now. It seems to be semantics. You like the words dropped and reinstated. You may say, correctly, that the women's teams were reinstated. I may say, correctly, that when you look at the historical record and see that they played every year with no gaps (other than maybe covid) that therefore those teams were never actually dropped.
10-20-2020 08:29 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #53
Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
Obvious solution is to stop admitting women until we achieve a 70% men / 30% women ratio, at which time we can legally drop volleyball and lacrosse.


* I'm kidding (unless you agree)

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10-20-2020 08:45 AM
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billymac Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
There is still a ton of red ink to be overcome, here. Up until the past five years, or so (with the coming of One Tribe, One Day), W&M alumni have been notoriously tight with their funds.

This will certainly be a good test of putting their money where their mouths are. Otherwise, it is right back to the same situation of being woefully underfunded, in every sport.
10-20-2020 09:10 AM
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Old tribe Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-19-2020 04:03 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:29 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 03:19 PM)Rocco Wrote:  So did they not realize ahead of time they could get sued for cutting the women's sports, or is this all part of a calculated plan to appear magnanimous but still end up reducing the number of teams? The former is hard to imagine, while it's also hard for me to believe a department that's been depicted as inept could pull off a complicated plan. I have questions, but I'm not sure I want answers.

They probably didn't think they'd be sued because cutting the 7 teams actually moved them closer towards compliance with Title IX's equal opportunities requirement than they were without the cuts. It's sort of a weird scenario. They were out of compliance for a long time, made cuts which resulted in moving closer to compliance, and then get threatened with a lawsuit. It shows that Title IX lawsuits aren't really used to bring schools into compliance much these days. Instead, they are often used as a threat to not cut women's teams or to restore them.

By that logic, why isn't Martin just considering the lawsuit dropped? Why does he believe, or at least state, that "reduction in men’s participation via roster management and suspending teams, or a swift and significant increase in participation opportunities for women will be necessary." If he was to just restore thing to status quo ante Huge would we still be getting sued?

I don't know all of the details of the discussion between Martin/W&M and the attorney threatening the lawsuit, but going back to where we were before the cuts doesn't solve the Title IX problem. Cutting the 7 teams actually put W&M in a better position Title IX wise (still not compliant, but closer). I'd imagine that the attorney threatening the lawsuit has told Martin/W&M that he won't sue if they (a) reinstate the women's team that were cut and either (b) make the roster management/team suspension moves on the men's side, or © add more women's teams. Those moves would be necessary to bring W&M within the 2% safe harbor for the equal participation part of Title IX.
10-20-2020 09:15 AM
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Old tribe Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 08:12 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 07:36 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Of all things, I never would've guessed a Huge led department would not be Title 9 compliant.

This aspect is not the Athletic Department's fault. The Administration keeps admitting ever-increasing percentages of women undergraduates and over time it makes it impossible to be in compliance with the "participation" factor.

This is accurate. Huge had nothing to do with the Title IX problem. If anyone can be blamed it's Driscoll. I actually think Huge's plans/the hiring of the Pictor Group were part of a plan to address the Title IX issues. Just wasn't executed the well.
10-20-2020 09:21 AM
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62Indian Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 08:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Obvious solution is to stop admitting women until we achieve a 70% men / 30% women ratio, at which time we can legally drop volleyball and lacrosse.


* I'm kidding (unless you agree)

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I was going to propose this Tribal, but I was afraid my post would be removed. I believe the current ratio is 58% women and 42% men. Obviously, male applicants are not being treated fairly/equitably. It is obvious the College has a bias against men, which is unconstitutional. Anything other than a 50-50 ratio is unacceptable. I am NOT kidding!
10-20-2020 09:23 AM
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Old tribe Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 08:29 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Zorch-

Tribe athletics found itself in a Gordian knot situation in which something had / has to give. NCAA rules and regs. Title IX compliance issues. Drastic reduction in donations. To name a few.

By resolving Title IX issues first, the Gordian knot has been cut.

A huge infusion of donations will save all of the teams.

How to increase donations? The Title IX decision to reinstate the women’s sports results in transparency and certainty. It creates leverage for the AD to lay out the financial case, which is happening tomorrow.

IMO, this is the best path forward ... it’s up to the Tribe community.

If the Tribe community can not handle this, then a shift to D-3, and the future of football, will increasingly be discussed, IMO.

If the fundraising doesn't happen, the men's teams that were cut won't come back and some men's teams will lose roster spots. Don't think D3 will be on the table, will just have less men's teams/athletes.
10-20-2020 09:23 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #59
Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
She had over 3 years to address our Title IX shortcomings. She's unabashedly pro-female and certainly had the motivation & time to examine compliance. But, let's blame her predecessor.

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10-20-2020 09:26 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Women's gymnastics, women's swimming, and volleyball reinstated
(10-20-2020 09:23 AM)62Indian Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 08:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Obvious solution is to stop admitting women until we achieve a 70% men / 30% women ratio, at which time we can legally drop volleyball and lacrosse.


* I'm kidding (unless you agree)

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I was going to propose this Tribal, but I was afraid my post would be removed. I believe the current ratio is 58% women and 42% men. Obviously, male applicants are not being treated fairly/equitably. It is obvious the College has a bias against men, which is unconstitutional. Anything other than a 50-50 ratio is unacceptable. I am NOT kidding!
I don't censor posters unless it's something egregious.

JMU & UVA are close to 60w/40m. VT flips that ratio, understandable given their focus on engineering & agriculture.

I WAS kidding, hope we find a better way to build athletics, but you (and others) are certainly free to express you opinions.

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(This post was last modified: 10-20-2020 09:33 AM by Tribal.)
10-20-2020 09:32 AM
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