Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
Author Message
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,724
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 178
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #41
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-21-2020 11:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 02:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Miami, Florida & FSU
UGA & GT
Clemson & USC
UNC, NC State & Duke
UVA & VT
UMD
Pitt & PSU
Syracuse

Apologies to WFU, WVU, Rutgers and BC...not enough slots.

That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Perhaps something like this?

Pod 1: Miami, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Pod 2: Florida, Virginia Tech, Georgia, South Carolina
Pod 3: Florida State, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Pod 4: North Carolina, Virginia, Duke, NC State

3 protected crossovers per team; listed in the same order in each pod

Pod 2 is brutal. I’m not so sure how UNC would feel about getting slaughtered by all 3 FL schools.

Maybe this, a zipper w/ 1 protected crossover:

Cuse-Miami
Pitt-Penn St
UVA—VT
UNC-Duke
M’land-NC St
SC-Clemson
UGA-GT
UF-FSU
10-22-2020 06:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,665
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 306
I Root For: Carolina
Location:
Post: #42
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-22-2020 06:52 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 11:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 02:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Miami, Florida & FSU
UGA & GT
Clemson & USC
UNC, NC State & Duke
UVA & VT
UMD
Pitt & PSU
Syracuse

Apologies to WFU, WVU, Rutgers and BC...not enough slots.

That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Perhaps something like this?

Pod 1: Miami, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Pod 2: Florida, Virginia Tech, Georgia, South Carolina
Pod 3: Florida State, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Pod 4: North Carolina, Virginia, Duke, NC State

3 protected crossovers per team; listed in the same order in each pod

Pod 2 is brutal. I’m not so sure how UNC would feel about getting slaughtered by all 3 FL schools.

Maybe this, a zipper w/ 1 protected crossover:

Cuse-Miami
Pitt-Penn St
UVA—VT
UNC-Duke
M’land-NC St
SC-Clemson
UGA-GT
UF-FSU

It works a lot better as a 12 team conference:

UVa- Virginia Tech
Carolina-NC State
Duke- Wake Forest
Georgia Tech- Clemson
Florida- Florida State
Georgia- South Carolina

if you had to go to 14:
Maryland- Miami

Nobody would really want to go north of DC.
10-22-2020 07:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wahoowa84 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 397
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 63
I Root For: UVa
Location:
Post: #43
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-21-2020 10:17 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 01:04 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 09:49 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 08:02 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The ACC has too much of a country club mentality back then to make this a reality.

the scenario I think would have been the most interesting is if around 1952-53 if instead of coming to an agreement with UNC and forming a breakaway conference if SC and Clemson had gained entry into the SEC while Maryland became more closely associated with the Eastern Independents to their North.

Then I think the chances of a Paterno Conference become a greater reality and I think that group could poach the SoCon’s best.

The scenario presented in the OP involves ACC defections later than the '70s -- more like in the 2000s and 2010s. The alternate Big East in this timeline is a strong football-first conference that manages to attract both Miami and Florida State in the early '90s, leaving the ACC without a dominant football school and resulting in the general irrelevance of the conference. Maryland is actually first to defect to the Big East, along with Clemson and Georgia Tech in the 2000s. After NC State wisely accepts an SEC invite in the 2010s, the Big East drops Temple (for similar reasons as it did in 2005 in our timeline) and invites the old school ACC core of Duke, UNC, and UVA, who begrudgingly accept.

Big East (1976): Boston College, Notre Dame, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, West Virginia

ACC (1976): Clemson, Duke, Maryland, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest

~~~~~~

Big East (1992): Boston College, Florida State, Miami-FL, Notre Dame, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

ACC (1992): Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest

~~~~~~

Big East (2005)
Eastern: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami-FL, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Virginia Tech
Seaboard: Syracuse, Clemson, Penn State, Florida State, Pittsburgh, Temple, West Virginia

ACC (2005): Cincinnati, Duke, Louisville, NC State, North Carolina, South Florida, Virginia, Wake Forest

~~~~~~

Big East (2015): see OP

ACC (2015)
East: Central Florida, East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida, Temple, Wake Forest
West: Baylor, Navy*, Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulane

Notes
Cincinnati to Big Ten
Houston to Pac-16
Louisville to SEC
03-wink

What makes your scenario hard to stomach are not the movements in the 1990s and later...it is that Penn State and Notre Dame would have to have been fully committed to building a conference with their programs at the center.

Yet Notre Dame, 40 years later, still has zero (little) interest in the well being of a conference. Maybe COVID is teaching the Irish that conference participation is not all horrible...but the impact of actions by Fielding Yost to Jim Delaney still seems to weigh heavily on Notre Dame.

Also Penn State looked down on the rest of the east coast football programs. Paterno needed 2:1 scheduling deals and was paranoid about having a competitive edge over his regional rivals.

It takes a lot of self-confidence and foresight to build a conference. Notre Dame and Penn State would have been the right tent-poles, but leaders in those universities were completely opposed to such strategic thinking.

I would say that this alternate timeline came about because Penn State and Notre Dame each happened to have different leadership that resulted in more strategic thinking.

Those strategic thinkers would have had to 1) undo the legacy of Knute Rockne (who built ND’s brand as national barnstormers) and 2) stand-up to Joe Paterno (who was god-like revered at PSU). It works in theoretical discussions, but not in the real life world of CFB. Those two programs would have been stable tent-poles for a prosperous eastern conference.
10-22-2020 07:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wahoowa84 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 397
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 63
I Root For: UVa
Location:
Post: #44
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 02:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Miami, Florida & FSU
UGA & GT
Clemson & USC
UNC, NC State & Duke
UVA & VT
UMD
Pitt & PSU
Syracuse

Apologies to WFU, WVU, Rutgers and BC...not enough slots.

That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Neither pods nor divisions work well with 16 members. I’d go with permanent rivals and rotate the rest.
10-22-2020 08:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,724
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 178
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #45
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-22-2020 07:22 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-22-2020 06:52 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 11:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 02:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Miami, Florida & FSU
UGA & GT
Clemson & USC
UNC, NC State & Duke
UVA & VT
UMD
Pitt & PSU
Syracuse

Apologies to WFU, WVU, Rutgers and BC...not enough slots.

That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Perhaps something like this?

Pod 1: Miami, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Pod 2: Florida, Virginia Tech, Georgia, South Carolina
Pod 3: Florida State, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Pod 4: North Carolina, Virginia, Duke, NC State

3 protected crossovers per team; listed in the same order in each pod

Pod 2 is brutal. I’m not so sure how UNC would feel about getting slaughtered by all 3 FL schools.

Maybe this, a zipper w/ 1 protected crossover:

Cuse-Miami
Pitt-Penn St
UVA—VT
UNC-Duke
M’land-NC St
SC-Clemson
UGA-GT
UF-FSU

It works a lot better as a 12 team conference:

UVa- Virginia Tech
Carolina-NC State
Duke- Wake Forest
Georgia Tech- Clemson
Florida- Florida State
Georgia- South Carolina

if you had to go to 14:
Maryland- Miami

Nobody would really want to go north of DC.

I’ll take the 14 team model—I can’t see how you’d want to leave out Miami but keep WF.

I’d also flip the GA/SC schools a bit:

UVA-VT
UNC-NC St
Duke-WF
Clemson-SC
GT-UGA
FSU-UF
Miami-Maryland

Alternatively, you could swap WVU in for Maryland.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2020 08:57 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
10-22-2020 08:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 6,870
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 261
I Root For: The Heels
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #46
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
Two leagues:

BC
UMass
URI
UConn
Syracuse
Rutgers
Delaware
Villanova
Temple
Penn St.
Pitt
WVU

Maryland
UVA
VaTech
VMI
Richmond
William & Mary
UNC
Duke
State
Wake
SC
Clemson
10-22-2020 09:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,963
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 163
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #47
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-22-2020 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 02:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Miami, Florida & FSU
UGA & GT
Clemson & USC
UNC, NC State & Duke
UVA & VT
UMD
Pitt & PSU
Syracuse

Apologies to WFU, WVU, Rutgers and BC...not enough slots.

That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Neither pods nor divisions work well with 16 members. I’d go with permanent rivals and rotate the rest.

Divisionless can be a good option, but one disadvantage is that if you have more than 9 or 10 teams, there aren't enough conference games to complete a round-robin and so the conference can't hold a CCG under the current NCAA rules (except of course if they get a waiver).

Pods (which rotate between divisions) and even fixed divisions can certainly work quite well with 16 teams, but it really depends on the composition of the conference. If there just so happens to be 2 groups of 8 teams that have little connection with one another, then fixed divisions with limited interdivisional play can work. However, it's rare that a conference is so cleanly divided in half, so fixed 8-team divisions are generally impractical.

Pods give much more scheduling flexibility and are so more practical solutions, but they also depend on whether you can parse the conference into 4 groups of 4 and still have enough slack in the schedule to permit important rivals to play annually even if they're not in the same pod. One problem with the WAC's attempt to use rotating 4-team pods is that there was a group of more than 4 teams that all wanted to play one another every year (the Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming schools), and that can't easily be accommodated with pods, especially when there are only 8 conference games. But I think it's rarer than not to have such a large cluster of rivals that must play annually, and with pods, you can have all teams in a 16-team conference play one another at least once within two years, which is a huge advantage over fixed divisions.
10-22-2020 09:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,593
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 289
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #48
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
Big East
Boston College
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

ACC
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Maryland
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
10-23-2020 09:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DFW HOYA Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,257
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 95
I Root For: The Hoyas
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #49
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
Why does every conference have to be oversized? Here was the original ACC. What's wrong with this group?

Duke
Clemson
Maryland
North Carolina
North Carolina State
South Carolina
Virginia
Wake Forest
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2020 10:19 AM by DFW HOYA.)
10-23-2020 10:19 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,963
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 163
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #50
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-23-2020 09:58 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big East
Boston College
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

ACC
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Maryland
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

That's two separate conferences. If you had to construct one "ultimate" conference from these schools, who would make the cut?
10-23-2020 10:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,593
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 289
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #51
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-23-2020 10:19 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-23-2020 09:58 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big East
Boston College
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

ACC
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Maryland
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

That's two separate conferences. If you had to construct one "ultimate" conference from these schools, who would make the cut?

Apologies. Let's do this:

Boston College
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Maryland
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
West Virginia
10-23-2020 03:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,665
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 306
I Root For: Carolina
Location:
Post: #52
RE: CHALLENGE: Create the Ultimate Eastern College Sports Conference
(10-22-2020 08:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-22-2020 07:22 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-22-2020 06:52 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 11:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 07:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  That’s a pretty nice grouping. How are you dividing those 16 up for pods/divisions?

Perhaps something like this?

Pod 1: Miami, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Pod 2: Florida, Virginia Tech, Georgia, South Carolina
Pod 3: Florida State, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Pod 4: North Carolina, Virginia, Duke, NC State

3 protected crossovers per team; listed in the same order in each pod

Pod 2 is brutal. I’m not so sure how UNC would feel about getting slaughtered by all 3 FL schools.

Maybe this, a zipper w/ 1 protected crossover:

Cuse-Miami
Pitt-Penn St
UVA—VT
UNC-Duke
M’land-NC St
SC-Clemson
UGA-GT
UF-FSU

It works a lot better as a 12 team conference:

UVa- Virginia Tech
Carolina-NC State
Duke- Wake Forest
Georgia Tech- Clemson
Florida- Florida State
Georgia- South Carolina

if you had to go to 14:
Maryland- Miami

Nobody would really want to go north of DC.

I’ll take the 14 team model—I can’t see how you’d want to leave out Miami but keep WF.

I’d also flip the GA/SC schools a bit:

UVA-VT
UNC-NC St
Duke-WF
Clemson-SC
GT-UGA
FSU-UF
Miami-Maryland

Alternatively, you could swap WVU in for Maryland.

I'll repeat...nobody would really want to go north of DC.
Wake Forest is one of us, why would we ever want to replace them.
10-23-2020 08:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.