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China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #1
China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
For those of you who don't know, the Chinese communist party is writing its own translation of the Bible.

An excerpt of it was released a couple weeks ago as part of a new textbook on business ethics. The story in the excerpt is familiar to most Americans, even non-Christians: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

But here is the story as translated back into English in the new Chinese Bible:

Quote:Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

She said, “No one, Lord.”

[Note: up to this point, this is almost word-for-word what the English version says]

When the crowd disappeared, Jesus stoned the sinner to death saying, “I too am a sinner. But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead.”

04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop

https://www.ucanews.com/news/chinese-cat...nner/89619

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/c...st-christ/
10-11-2020 08:30 PM
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Post: #2
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-11-2020 08:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  For those of you who don't know, the Chinese communist party is writing its own translation of the Bible.

An excerpt of it was released a couple weeks ago as part of a new textbook on business ethics. The story in the excerpt is familiar to most Americans, even non-Christians: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

But here is the story as translated back into English in the new Chinese Bible:

Quote:Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

She said, “No one, Lord.”

[Note: up to this point, this is almost word-for-word what the English version says]

When the crowd disappeared, Jesus stoned the sinner to death saying, “I too am a sinner. But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead.”

04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop

https://www.ucanews.com/news/chinese-cat...nner/89619

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/c...st-christ/

Before this was posted I posted the very exact thing that non-believers in the original Bible would create their own Bible and now this. Jeepers, I must be a seer.
10-11-2020 08:43 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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Post: #3
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
That must have been the version that Don Lemon has. You know, the one where Jesus admits that he wasn't perfect.
10-12-2020 05:05 AM
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umbluegray Online
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
I'm not surprised in the least.

The Christian church in China has been growing at incredible rates.

Both quotes from Wikipedia...

Quote:The practice of religion continues to be tightly controlled by government authorities. Chinese over the age of 18 are permitted to join only officially sanctioned Christian groups registered with the government-approved Protestant Three-Self Church and China Christian Council and the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Church. On the other hand, many Christians practice in informal networks and unregistered congregations, often described as house churches or underground churches, the proliferation of which began in the 1950s when many Chinese Protestants and Catholics began to reject state-controlled structures purported to represent them. Members of such groups are said to represent the "silent majority" of Chinese Christians and represent many diverse theological traditions.

Quote:In recent years, the number of Chinese Christians has increased significantly; Christians were 4 million before 1949 (3 million Catholics and 1 million Protestants), and are reaching 67 million today, Christianity is reportedly the fastest growing religion in China with average annual rate of 7%.
10-12-2020 08:54 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #5
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
Christianity tends to thrive when it is persecuted.

Rather peculiar historical trend.

Sidenote: North Korea used to be a hotbed of Christianity.

Grandpappy Kim came from a devout Christian family and Pyongyang was a major hub for Asian Christianity

One of the reason I believe Kim was so successful is he basically bastardized Christianity and made himself the Christ figure that would redeem NK.
10-12-2020 09:05 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
Hard to believe I missed this but I have been preoccupied this week with paperwork and other things.

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev 22:18-19


The people behind this are going to pay a TERRIBLE price, and it will be an eternal price.

The fact is Christianity is becoming a real problem for the Chinese communists. There is a thriving underground church, and now the state is trying to bring them out and have a state run version of Christianity. The pope is working with them on this and even selecting bishops and so forth.

Pope Francis has always had a love affair with socialism and communism. He was an utterly corrupt cardinal in bed with the communists and fascists south America for decades before acending to the golden throne at the Vatican.
10-16-2020 09:12 AM
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Post: #7
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.
10-16-2020 10:17 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.



That has to be the weakest and most obvious troll fail ever.

Clearly I am in your head these days.
10-16-2020 10:20 AM
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fsquid Offline
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:20 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.



That has to be the weakest and most obvious troll fail ever.

Clearly I am in your head these days.

Oh yea, sit around all day worrying about the guys in the spin room.
10-16-2020 10:22 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:22 AM)fsquid Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:20 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.



That has to be the weakest and most obvious troll fail ever.

Clearly I am in your head these days.

Oh yea, sit around all day worrying about the guys in the spin room.


Simply adorable 04-cheers
10-16-2020 10:40 AM
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fsquid Offline
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:40 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:22 AM)fsquid Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:20 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.



That has to be the weakest and most obvious troll fail ever.

Clearly I am in your head these days.

Oh yea, sit around all day worrying about the guys in the spin room.


Simply adorable 04-cheers

Hey with 2 teenage girls in the house, I'll take that.
10-16-2020 10:45 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
I ran across this a few minutes ago. Simply a wonderful vid of real Chinese Christians in tears after receiving REAL Bibles.







Just reminds us of how much we take our religious freedoms for granted here. These people are in tears and probably risking their lives by having a real Bible in their homes, while many American Christians have an inch of dust on their Bible.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 11:00 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
10-16-2020 10:56 AM
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umbluegray Online
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.

Interestingly, the text has strayed very little from the original texts from the 1st century.

For those who think the text in the Bible has changed over the centuries like a game of telephone, here's some really good information regarding the number of differences in the text (textual variants) and the nature of those differences.

Here's a 3 minute and 19 second video by Daniel Wallace sharing a very high-level view of textual variants in the Scriptures.






Here's a bit more in-depth information in two ~25 min videos.

Daniel Wallace: Is What We Have Now What They Wrote Then? Part 1




Daniel Wallace: Is What We Have Now What They Wrote Then? Part 2





And for those who find the area of textual criticism somewhat interesting, here's a scholarly video lasting a little over 2 hours.



10-16-2020 11:15 AM
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Post: #14
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 10:56 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I ran across this a few minutes ago. Simply a wonderful vid of real Chinese Christians in tears after receiving REAL Bibles.







Just reminds us of how much we take our religious freedoms for granted here. These people are in tears and probably risking their lives by having a real Bible in their homes, while many American Christians have an inch of dust on their Bible.

They are likely with an "underground" church denomination that is not CCP approved.
10-16-2020 11:37 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 11:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.

Interestingly, the text has strayed very little from the original texts from the 1st century.

For those who think the text in the Bible has changed over the centuries like a game of telephone, here's some really good information regarding the number of differences in the text (textual variants) and the nature of those differences.



When the dead sea scrolls were found in 1947, they included the entire Old Testament. Those copies were more than 1000 years older than the then oldest surviving copies. That find gave us copies that predated the birth of Christ and Christianity. That pretty much destroyed the arguments that those 350+ OT prophecies of Jesus were all written after the fact to make them fit so perfectly and impossibly.

I watched a secular documentary on the dead sea scrolls recently and even those unbelieving secularists had to admit the text of the Bible has not changed in over 2000 years.

Well over 21 centuries of copying and recopying and yet the text is the same.

We have the same words today they had when Jesus walked the earth. This is one of the many aspects that separate Biblical Christianity from all other religions in human history.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 11:50 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
10-16-2020 11:49 AM
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
Don't some denominations believe that other versions of the bible are rewrites? I had a guy ask which version the Episcopal Church uses and I had to admit that I really didn't know. It's King James BTW.
10-16-2020 01:13 PM
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Post: #17
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 11:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 11:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.

Interestingly, the text has strayed very little from the original texts from the 1st century.

For those who think the text in the Bible has changed over the centuries like a game of telephone, here's some really good information regarding the number of differences in the text (textual variants) and the nature of those differences.



When the dead sea scrolls were found in 1947, they included the entire Old Testament. Those copies were more than 1000 years older than the then oldest surviving copies. That find gave us copies that predated the birth of Christ and Christianity. That pretty much destroyed the arguments that those 350+ OT prophecies of Jesus were all written after the fact to make them fit so perfectly and impossibly.

I watched a secular documentary on the dead sea scrolls recently and even those unbelieving secularists had to admit the text of the Bible has not changed in over 2000 years.

Well over 21 centuries of copying and recopying and yet the text is the same.

We have the same words today they had when Jesus walked the earth. This is one of the many aspects that separate Biblical Christianity from all other religions in human history.

This is true.

Finding the Dead Sea Scrolls factually shut down the claims that the original text had been distorted over time.
10-16-2020 01:17 PM
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Post: #18
RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 11:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 11:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 10:17 AM)fsquid Wrote:  well, the book has been around for a while. Probably needed a rewrite anyways.

Interestingly, the text has strayed very little from the original texts from the 1st century.

For those who think the text in the Bible has changed over the centuries like a game of telephone, here's some really good information regarding the number of differences in the text (textual variants) and the nature of those differences.



When the dead sea scrolls were found in 1947, they included the entire Old Testament. Those copies were more than 1000 years older than the then oldest surviving copies. That find gave us copies that predated the birth of Christ and Christianity. That pretty much destroyed the arguments that those 350+ OT prophecies of Jesus were all written after the fact to make them fit so perfectly and impossibly.

I watched a secular documentary on the dead sea scrolls recently and even those unbelieving secularists had to admit the text of the Bible has not changed in over 2000 years.

Well over 21 centuries of copying and recopying and yet the text is the same.

We have the same words today they had when Jesus walked the earth. This is one of the many aspects that separate Biblical Christianity from all other religions in human history.

There is an Israeli Jewish archeologist who has done work on that......History Channel maybe. If I can find again will post.
10-16-2020 01:35 PM
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umbluegray Online
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 01:13 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Don't some denominations believe that other versions of the bible are rewrites? I had a guy ask which version the Episcopal Church uses and I had to admit that I really didn't know. It's King James BTW.

When we talk about versions there are so many out there. Here's a great article explaining why and the differences. And it just so happens to have been written by Daniel Wallace, the guy in the videos I posted.

Quote:Daniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater.

His Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (Zondervan, 1996) has become a standard textbook in colleges and seminaries. He is the senior New Testament editor of the NET Bible. Dr. Wallace is also the Executive Director for the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts.

Why So Many Versions?

Quote:We simply want an answer to the question, "Why are there so many versions of the Bible?"

There are three basic influences which have given birth to a multitude of translations.
  • First, in 1881 two British scholars published a Greek New Testament which was based on the most ancient manuscripts then available.
  • Second, since 1895 many archeological and manuscript discoveries have been made which have pronounced judgment on some of the renderings found in the King James. The single most important discovery was that of the Egyptian papyri.
  • Finally, there have been philosophical influences. That is, the theory of translation is being revamped today.


These three differences--textual, informational, philosophical--have been the parents of a new generation of Bible translations. But are these translations any good? Are they any better than the King James?

Wallace discusses each of those points in detail in this essay.

He then discusses various English translations prefaced with the following:

Quote:But before we look at these translations, I'd like to make three general comments.
  • First, you might think there is no hope of ever knowing what the Word of God really says. There are so many translations that read so differently! How can anyone who does not know Greek or Hebrew really know what the Bible says? I am personally convinced that the Holy Spirit is sovereign over even the worst translations. Even in extremely biased or sectarian translations, all the major doctrines can be found. And if you know which translations are best, then you will be much better off!
  • Second, one of the best safeguards you can follow is to stay away from the sectarian translations or those done by an individual. The New World Translation, by the Jehovah's Witnesses, is the best known sectarian translation. We will speak about this translation a little later. Translations by individuals include Moffatt's, Weymouth's, J. B. Phillips, The Living Bible, Kenneth Wuest's Expanded Translation, and the Berkley New Testament. To be sure, there is much merit in each of these--especially the last four. But the idiosyncracies and theological biases of a translation are far more apparent when it is produced by one man.
  • Third, to the question "Which translation is best?", there can be no singular answer. I suggest that every Christian who is serious about studying the Bible own at least two translations. He should have at least one dynamic equivalence translation (or phrase-for-phrase) and one formal equivalence translation (that is, word-for-word translation). In fact, it would be good to have two dynamic equivalence translations--because in this type of translation, the translator is also the interpreter. If his interpretation is correct, it can only clarify the meaning of the text; if it is incorrect, then it only clarifies the interpretation of the translator!

He ends his essay mentioning another translation in the works. That translation has been completed since this article was published in 2004 and is currently available.

Quote:There is a recent translation that has not yet been completed, but has been available in part on the Biblical Studies Foundation web site. The NET Bible (or New English Translation) has all the earmarks of a great translation. When finished, it may well be more accurate than the NASB, more readable than the NIV, and more elegant than either. In addition, the notes are genuine gold mine of information, unlike those found in any other translation.
10-16-2020 01:53 PM
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umbluegray Online
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RE: China rewrites Bible to be totalitarian propaganda
(10-16-2020 01:13 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Don't some denominations believe that other versions of the bible are rewrites? I had a guy ask which version the Episcopal Church uses and I had to admit that I really didn't know. It's King James BTW.

I didn't address your question directly.

I don't know about other denominations, because I was raised Southern Baptist. I'veattended a non-denominational church as well as an Assemblies of God church.

I remember how different the worship service was at both the non-denom and Assemblies churches were... raising of hands, etc. It caught me off guard at first.

After going back to So Baptist I found they had caught up with those others. 03-wink

But none of those churches/denominations had issues with the standard list of translations.


In that essay I posted Wallace did say that certain translations were made by either a single person (rather than a group which provides checks/balances) or a sectarian/biased group.

Sectarian
New World Translation - Jehovah's Witnesses

Individuals
Moffatt's
Weymouth's
J. B. Phillips
The Living Bible
Kenneth Wuest's Expanded Translation
Berkley New Testament.


The Living Bible translation is the only one of those with which I'm familiar.
10-16-2020 02:07 PM
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