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What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
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chess Offline
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Post: #261
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-09-2020 01:10 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 08:41 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 07:24 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-07-2020 07:03 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-04-2020 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Pros of Maryland:
1) They are UVA’s historic rival and a peer university
2) They are culturally and geographically an ACC school (a founding member)
3) UMCP is a much larger university (double the size of Louisville)
4) UMCP has better academics (both undergrad and research)

Pros of Louisville
1) They care more about athletics (football and basketball programs are significantly better)
2) They have more competent management (higher fan attendance, higher revenues and self-sustaining programs)
3) They want the conference to succeed (Maryland was more of a prima-donna, self-interested objectives)

Bottom-line, Maryland is about tradition and future potential...while Louisville delivers results. Louisville is the better choice for the next 20+ years (although there is the outside chance that Maryland will one day gets its act together).

Louisville is a complete athletic upgrade over Maryland in almost every way that matters. They have more competitive programs, better facilities, generate significantly more revenue, deliver better media ratings, and have a more passionate fan base and it still has room to grow. UMD's great hope was Kevin Plank and that dream seems to be evaporating with Under Armour's earnings.

Louisville has no competition in their market. Maryland has major (really unsurmountable) competition from both Baltimore and DC professional teams, not to mention all the DC area colleges which include Georgetown, Navy, VTech, and UVA which all have coverage on local tv stations. To get any mindshare with football, they'd have to regularly win big, consistently, and that is unlikely to happen for them in the Big Ten East. To be honest, when I think potential, I think Louisville more than Maryland, because Louisville is the program that is a relative neophyte that is still building. They've added 20K seats to it stadium over the last 12 years, now surpassing Maryland's capacity and matching Kroger.

The only knock on Louisville is their academic profile, but athletic conferences are about athletics despite the academic lip service or message board debates.

That’s a really good point on “potential“.

My general bias has been that potential is more about macro demographics. DMV is fertile recruiting territory, with lots of potential fans. This viewpoint results from seeking a very long-time horizon.

Your counter is that potential is more about micro-issues...competition and program runway. Factors that impact programs in the next decade or two.

The B10 has an interesting mix of big city/suburban schools (in DC, Chicago & MSP), as well as college towns (in State College, Columbus and Bloomington). Definitely agree that programs in college towns have generally had better results over the past several decades...and will likely continue their relative success over the next 10-20 years.

You mention college towns. IMO not all college towns are alike. Sure a college town on the outside isn't like a big city. Champaign Urbana isn't Chicago. But then again, the students at the University of Illinois have to come from somewhere. Most of my friends at the "U of I" were from the Chicago suburbs. It might have been a "college town" but the feel was probably more like a big city than the small town of Wilkes Barre. Pennsylvania I grew up in (that was really a small town). I wasn't as social at Penn State but I imagine a lot of their students were from the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh areas. I'd imagine schools like Ohio State, Florida/Florida State, and Texas A&M are similar even though they are in "college towns" (Ohio State is in Columbus which is a pretty big city by itself without OSU as is Austin, TX without UT). Meanwhile you got schools like Clemson. They're college towns and where are their students from? Charleston and Columbia? Not much bigger cities. I'm guessing different vibe not only from Illinois and Penn State but from Florida, Florida State, and even Georgia (who I'm guessing get many students from the Atlanta area).

The Big Ten has a ton of college towns but many are college towns filled by big city kids. The SEC and Big 12 have a ton of college towns filled by small town kids. IMO, there is a difference.

The issue is about potential for big-time college athletics in Louisville, KY versus College Park, MD.

The University of Maryland will never be in a college town because it’s located inside the DC beltway...a very urban/suburban setting. There will be very stiff competition from pro sports and other universities for discretionary entertainment dollars. Also, I’d venture that the state of Maryland is a net exporter of D1 talent...perennially leaving UMD fans wondering what-if the talent stayed within the boundaries.

On the other hand, the University of Louisville could possibly (continue to) transform the city into more of a college-town that promotes big-time college athletics. UL’s athletics revenue is much higher than UMD’s revenues; even though UL only gets the paltry media payout of an ACC school (not the $$$ of a BIG counterpart)...yet over the next decade, UL revenue will likely grow faster than UMD. UL has better football, basketball and Olympic sports; UL has more committed fans and revenue generating ventures.

Maryland's athletic leadership dropped the ball and left the athletic department in a lot of debt.

Louisville's athletic department budget under Jurich was as high as most ACC schools.
10-10-2020 02:45 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #262
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-04-2020 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Pros of Maryland:
1) They are UVA’s historic rival and a peer university
2) They are culturally and geographically an ACC school (a founding member)
3) UMCP is a much larger university (double the size of Louisville)
4) UMCP has better academics (both undergrad and research)

UVa's historic rival is VPI. Maryland is not a peer to UVa. North Carolina is closer in that department.

A key difference is that UMCP is a flagship state university and Louisville is not. Despite this, Louisville has twice the endowment of UMCP.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020 04:06 PM by DFW HOYA.)
10-10-2020 04:05 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #263
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
VPI’s traditional rival was VMI though.
10-10-2020 04:30 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #264
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-10-2020 04:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  VPI’s traditional rival was VMI though.
Good point there.
10-10-2020 04:37 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #265
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-10-2020 04:05 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  A key difference is that UMCP is a flagship state university and Louisville is not. Despite this, Louisville has twice the endowment of UMCP.
Maryland doesn't raise endowment for the sake of building a large endowment. It doesn't have to, because it doesn't have competition for state funding. And when Maryland raises funds privately, it does so with the intent of spending the money it raised immediately for educational and charitable purposes. The academic side has raised billions over the past decade, but obviously it's not reflected in the endowment. The issue at Maryland is the academic side doesn't permit the athletic department to piggy back on the academic side's fundraising efforts.
10-10-2020 05:44 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #266
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-10-2020 04:05 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(10-04-2020 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Pros of Maryland:
1) They are UVA’s historic rival and a peer university
2) They are culturally and geographically an ACC school (a founding member)
3) UMCP is a much larger university (double the size of Louisville)
4) UMCP has better academics (both undergrad and research)

UVa's historic rival is VPI. Maryland is not a peer to UVa. North Carolina is closer in that department.

A key difference is that UMCP is a flagship state university and Louisville is not. Despite this, Louisville has twice the endowment of UMCP.

Virginia's historic rival is Carolina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South%27s_Oldest_Rivalry

It's the South's Oldest Rivalry!
10-10-2020 08:01 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #267
RE: What if ACC expansion had gone according to plan?
(10-10-2020 08:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-10-2020 04:05 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(10-04-2020 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Pros of Maryland:
1) They are UVA’s historic rival and a peer university
2) They are culturally and geographically an ACC school (a founding member)
3) UMCP is a much larger university (double the size of Louisville)
4) UMCP has better academics (both undergrad and research)

UVa's historic rival is VPI. Maryland is not a peer to UVa. North Carolina is closer in that department.

A key difference is that UMCP is a flagship state university and Louisville is not. Despite this, Louisville has twice the endowment of UMCP.

Virginia's historic rival is Carolina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South%27s_Oldest_Rivalry

It's the South's Oldest Rivalry!
If football is the only sport and longevity is the criteria, then UNC and VT are the notable rivalries for UVA...although the most games played by Maryland is against UVA (and will remain for a very long time).

I was referring to the universities’ competition for elite students / recruits from DC metro (a common, and key geography), as well as athletics in all sports. Generally contrasting UVA-UMCP to UVA-UL

No harm in having multiple historic rivals...the Tar Heels are at a similar place.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2020 06:53 AM by Wahoowa84.)
10-11-2020 06:36 AM
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