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Problems for Wichita St in hoops
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
When my brother was an IU student (many years ago), I both highly respected yet strongly despised Bob Knight. To this day ... I still do.
10-10-2020 09:36 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-10-2020 08:09 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Bob Knight just started reattending games at IU after 20 years of not stepping on campus, and is apparently super jolly and positive in the stands now.

What he did back in 1978 was wrong, but he's had a long time to think it over and resolve his issues from that time.

One can condemn the act without condemning the man.

Thankfully, there is redemption in this world for most of us!
10-10-2020 09:46 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-10-2020 06:34 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 10:06 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  Whether anyone would ever want to take the chance of hiring him to coach again in the future, or not is another matter, but for his own sake, this is a time for him to start working on a major rehaul.

The coaching fraternity takes care of its own. Not a single coach has spoken out about it. And he'll find another job, just like Bruce Pearl and Billy Gillispie and Rick Pitino did.

That might be true, but, I think it speaks more about the schools and leaders who hire these guys rather than the coaches themselves. It’s not that imbalanced; the inmates don’t run the prisons.
10-11-2020 11:13 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
The higher the level....the more pressure there is on coaches to produce. Schools don't fork over 7 figure salaries without expectations. This could be a situation where the coach's ability to manage a big time program (not just coach a team) does not measure up to the task at hand.
10-11-2020 11:30 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
Reading the Shockers board, this story is wild and I actually think this gets turned around to where Marshall ends up staying.

Apparently there’s a psychotic nursing teacher at the school named Patty Beamer who befriends all the players and their parents. She has publicly declared herself a member of ANTIFA. She hates the Koch brothers, Gregg Marshall, and their association with each other. She’s somehow influential to the point she’s in charge of the fan facebook group. She’s had it out for Marshall for years and allegedly fed all the stories she has to Goodman and other writers.

A fan so psychotic yet intertwined with the players/parents that she’s capable of nuking the program. Pure chaos.
10-11-2020 11:39 AM
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ICThawk Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-11-2020 11:39 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Reading the Shockers board, this story is wild and I actually think this gets turned around to where Marshall ends up staying.

Apparently there’s a psychotic nursing teacher at the school named Patty Beamer who befriends all the players and their parents. She has publicly declared herself a member of ANTIFA. She hates the Koch brothers, Gregg Marshall, and their association with each other. She’s somehow influential to the point she’s in charge of the fan facebook group. She’s had it out for Marshall for years and allegedly fed all the stories she has to Goodman and other writers.

A fan so psychotic yet intertwined with the players/parents that she’s capable of nuking the program. Pure chaos.
t

I might suggest that the person(s) making some rather wild allegations about Beamer has concockted an interesting "excuse" for trying to take the heat off Marshall, and/or may himself/herself have it out for Beamer for some reason. Maybe just trying to play the "blame game"???, which appears to be a national pasttime in this age. But, since WSU has an "independent" investigation going (in which I'd doubt that neither she nor the anonymous fanboard person is a part) what difference would it make even if the allegations regarding Beamer are true? After all, the investigation should determine that Marshall either did some/all the things he is accused of, or he didn't! I might also note that at least some of the allegations have been confirmed by former players ON THE RECORD and appear to be confirmed by others currently off the record. In any event, I think that the RESULTS of the investigation will probably be more reliable than information on a "fan board", especially since the poster seems more concerned with evidently blaming Beamer for something than Marshall. By the way, as I understand it, ANTIFA has no "memberships" available since they appear to lack any functional organization. I also fail to see how any such an association would have anything to do with the allegations reported about Marshall anyway (unless the person is alleging that THE ATHLETIC and STADIUM are ANTIFA publications and the stories, though confirming some allegations by players ON THE RECORD and evidently others off the record), are really some kind of plot!!!
10-11-2020 12:54 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-11-2020 11:39 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Reading the Shockers board, this story is wild and I actually think this gets turned around to where Marshall ends up staying.

Apparently there’s a psychotic nursing teacher at the school named Patty Beamer who befriends all the players and their parents. She has publicly declared herself a member of ANTIFA. She hates the Koch brothers, Gregg Marshall, and their association with each other. She’s somehow influential to the point she’s in charge of the fan facebook group. She’s had it out for Marshall for years and allegedly fed all the stories she has to Goodman and other writers.

A fan so psychotic yet intertwined with the players/parents that she’s capable of nuking the program. Pure chaos.

This story was not driven by a singular source; it was driven by multiple accounts. Perhaps Marshall does, in fact, stay. However, as referenced before, the "red flags" and "warning signs" have been revealed over the past several years. Either administration didn't know about it - in which case they failed in oversight as leaders- or they knew about it and chose not to do anything about it in the form of suspension, support or removal - in which case they prioritized winning games over the safety and well-being of student-athletes and employees.

Either way, this hurts Wichita State in the near and long-term, regardless if Marshall stays or not.
10-11-2020 01:08 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-11-2020 11:39 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I actually think this gets turned around to where Marshall ends up staying.

Apparently there’s a psychotic nursing teacher at the school named Patty Beamer who befriends all the players and their parents. She has publicly declared herself a member of ANTIFA. She hates the Koch brothers...

So, in your opinion, the Marshall story is obviously just "fake news," concocted by left-wing opponents of President Trump.

It's interesting, but perhaps not surprising, that supporters of an authoritarian President are suggesting that everyone should look the other way when a college coach assaults and abuses his players. After all, the Head Coach would be regarded in their eyes as the team's proper "authoritarian," and as the old adage goes, "spare the rod and spoil the child."

.



(This post was last modified: 10-12-2020 06:26 AM by jedclampett.)
10-12-2020 06:11 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
Time to re-open that football feasibility study?
10-12-2020 07:09 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
I guess my question would be, when you have these recorded episodes, or infamous games when the family was asked to leave, was anything ever done or said to him at that time? Or that the school knew about some of the player complaints as well, and did something? If this isn’t new, but the source is pushing it in a different light, I could see a slim, very remote chance the guy keeps his job. Like “zero tolerance” from here on out kind of final warning.

I suspect the school knew, did nothing really, and now it’s on the school for damage control. Marshall likely axed. School sued by Marshall.

You just wonder if Marshall is canned, is he put in front of the camera on ESPN for a season or two before getting called back in? Like Knight or other passionate characters?
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2020 07:12 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
10-12-2020 07:10 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
That South Florida coach that punched a player got another job. That Texas Tech coach that locked a player in a shed got another job. That Indiana coach that choked a player got another job.
10-12-2020 08:19 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-12-2020 08:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  That South Florida coach that punched a player got another job. That Texas Tech coach that locked a player in a shed got another job. That Indiana coach that choked a player got another job.

But they didn't keep the jobs they had. That is the issue., whether Marshall stays or goes at Wichita.
10-12-2020 08:28 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-09-2020 09:37 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 04:07 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  There has never been a coach like John R Wooden. In any sport. Lou Holtz is the closest IMHO.

True, but there have been a few who have had similar qualities, including an intellectual, analytical approach to the game, a gentlemanly demeanor, an ability to inspire, and kindness toward his players.

Princeton's HC, Pete Carrill (innovator of the weave offense) is sometimes referred to in a similar way, and Marquette's Al McGuire also had many of these qualities. Utah's (and Billikens') HC Rick Majerus did, as well.

Majerus?

I didn't see him coach many games. But A-10 fans have told me that he was a fat slob who lived in a hotel because he was too lazy to pick up after himself.

Is this an accurate characterization of Rick Majerus? Could he be both that and a quietly inspiring gentleman?

Either way, no is fully defined by one thing they do. Our culture keeps making the mistake of thinking that we are all defined by our worst action.
10-12-2020 10:13 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
Let's say there is a separation between Wichita State and Marshall. Since it is so close to the start of the season, it is probably safe to assume that they go with an interim head coach for the season. Assistant coach, Isaac Brown, has the longest longevity of anyone on staff (six seasons), and probably is the most likely to get the interim tag. Who would Wichita State, theoretically, look to hire after the season? If Brown, or the interim does well, do they keep him? The Koch Brothers have a substantial piggy back to offer and make a run at a well-known candidate. They would undoubtedly look to go outside the Marshall tree (so no Chris Jans). Steve Forbes could have been an interesting candidate, but he just took over Wake Forest.

Ben Jacobson? Travis Ford? T. J. Otzelberger? Despite the money, I don't think they can pull away a major conference standing head coach. Perhaps they look to hire a recently dismissed head coach? That will be interesting long-term to see, for sure.
10-12-2020 10:32 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-09-2020 11:44 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I wonder, and realizing the money for the AAC doesn’t make sense presently (otherwise it would have already happened), if the AAC looks at adding more non-football programs to help boost the basketball side. Between losing UConn and the troubles at Wichita State, basketball is taking a huge hit (and that hurts for Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston, more than anything).

GW11, good stuff (as usual). Unscientifically from the AAC message board (which has 0.01% at best influence, I would say that 75% or so is in favor of inviting VCU. Of course, their acceptance of such almost certainly would have been enhanced if UConn had not departed. I am definitely in favor.

I think the majority would also like to add Dayton (includes me). But fans' hesitance of both an odd number and exceeding 12 total.

Regardless, I don't think anything happens until the NCAA grants a permanent waiver for 11 teams to hold a football title game. This is year #1 (of 2) for that.

In a perfect world, my exaggerated idea would occur where there would be four team pods to play each over & over again when not football, hoops, or baseball to provide travel sanity despite nationwide at 16. The combo of Army football only and VCU for non-football in an East grouping with the Western pod being:
Gonzaga/Air Force (football only)
Boise State
BYU
San Diego State

In a cannabilistic way, that also damages the A-10 & MWC (dramatically in both hoops & football), the two closest conferences for competition. Heck, SLU and Dayton for 18 if getting totally crazy.
10-12-2020 01:26 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-12-2020 10:13 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 09:37 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 04:07 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  There has never been a coach like John R Wooden. In any sport. Lou Holtz is the closest IMHO.

True, but there have been a few who have had similar qualities, including an intellectual, analytical approach to the game, a gentlemanly demeanor, an ability to inspire, and kindness toward his players.

Princeton's HC, Pete Carrill (innovator of the weave offense) is sometimes referred to in a similar way, and Marquette's Al McGuire also had many of these qualities. Utah's (and Billikens') HC Rick Majerus did, as well.

Majerus?

I didn't see him coach many games. But A-10 fans have told me that he was a fat slob who lived in a hotel because he was too lazy to pick up after himself.

Is this an accurate characterization of Rick Majerus? Could he be both that and a quietly inspiring gentleman?

Either way, no is fully defined by one thing they do. Our culture keeps making the mistake of thinking that we are all defined by our worst action.

Ask the kids at SLU Majerus inherited from the former coach how that guy was to them.

Philly’s had some decent folks at the helm of some of these programs. Fran Dunphy was said to be quite classy and humble, but, of course, couldn’t win on the big stage. I hear mostly good things about Jay Wright at Villanova. I think, however, Villanova’s true stud was its former football coach, Andy Talley.
10-12-2020 01:51 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
I'll always remember Rick M., both as a coach and ESPN analyst, referring to the University of Memphis as Memphis State. I wish he had fumbled "all out" and used "Memphis State College," the name in the 1950s when my folks attended. That would have been nutty.

Yep, he lived in a hotel. But I'm not sure it was because he was a slob. He seemed to want to keep his life simple — but he had the same lady friend for the last 25 years of his life.

A very good coach who seemed like a genuinely likable man.
10-12-2020 04:42 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
While not the same in terms of the specific accusations, Umass' run in the 90's may parallel this.

What happens next will be everything for this school. Umass completely blew it with it's post Calapari hire. They got to the dance the next 2 years mostly on reputation hang over and they have been in a virtual death spiral ever since. Only now - 20+ years later - are they finally starting to see some light again and that is still on shaky ground.

Part of the problem was the hire but the bigger problem IMO was the expectations of the fan base. They got spoiled by the success and lost track of the process behind it. Band wagon jumpers could not jump fast enough and it only compounded a bad situation.

WSU has to get rid of Marshall - and the next man up will be on a short leash.

Good Luck - I hope you do not endure the same fate Umass did for the last 20+ years.
10-13-2020 02:09 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
(10-13-2020 02:09 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  While not the same in terms of the specific accusations, Umass' run in the 90's may parallel this.

What happens next will be everything for this school. Umass completely blew it with it's post Calapari hire. They got to the dance the next 2 years mostly on reputation hang over and they have been in a virtual death spiral ever since. Only now - 20+ years later - are they finally starting to see some light again and that is still on shaky ground.

Part of the problem was the hire but the bigger problem IMO was the expectations of the fan base. They got spoiled by the success and lost track of the process behind it. Band wagon jumpers could not jump fast enough and it only compounded a bad situation.

WSU has to get rid of Marshall - and the next man up will be on a short leash.

Good Luck - I hope you do not endure the same fate Umass did for the last 20+ years.

UMass was nowhere near as strong a program as Wichita.

Calipari took UMass to its 2nd NCAA tournament appearance ever. Before Calipari, UMass played in a 4,000 seat gym.

Wichita went to the National Final game in 1965. They had been to 3 Elite Eights, and went to the Sweet 16 two years before Marshall was hired. They sold out their 10,500 seat arena for the whole season about half the years from 1980-2006.
10-13-2020 04:38 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops
Gregg Marshall released a statement that he’s never struck a player or assistant. Shaq Morris retweeted a Pinnochio nose-growing gif.

This is getting good.
10-14-2020 12:35 AM
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