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How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 05:09 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  ...What's left of the BIG XII joins the AAC


The main problem with this scenario - - even if half of the Big 12 schools were to switch conferences - - is that it wouldn't make sense for the remaining teams to move to a non-P5 conference.

It would probably be much more likely that they would add enough non-P5 full-member schools to expand membership to a total of 12,
thus making the "Big-12" a a 12-team conference.

The most likely candidates, if travel distance were a major consideration, might be BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati (regional rivals for WV and Iowa State), and SMU. All five have reasonably good FB and BB programs.

Because the Big 8 and Big 12 have always maintained a strong (Mississippi River to Rocky Mountains) regional identity, with the single exception of WV, schools such as SDSU and UCF might be less likely to be invited into the Big 12.

In that case, schools in or near the Big-12's regional footprint, such as Colorado State and Tulane might be invited. Utah State is strong enough in FB and BB to merit an invitation, and would provide BYU with a nearby rival. Rice would be given consideration, due to their location, AAU status and long history in the SWC.

The most likely new Big-12 members:

BYU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati


The next most likely new Big-12 members:

SMU
Colorado State
Utah State
Tulane


Other possible, but somewhat less likely Big-12 members, due to higher travel costs or less competitive teams:

UCF
SDSU
Rice
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020 10:20 PM by jedclampett.)
10-08-2020 10:17 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:07 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Why don't a hoops blue blood and the reigning champ add value?

Because hoops is a small part of value.


I am with Quo on this. People bring KU and other football lightweights to the B10– it isn’t happening. The B10 already has enough football weak sisters in Rutgers, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, etc. Ohio State, PSU, Michigan and Wisconsin aren’t adding more schools that struggle to win 4 games a year.

The Big Ten could stomach Kansas but only if they were paired with a real football blueblood like Oklahoma.

Here’s an interesting thought—if the Big Ten were to add Oklahoma and Missouri who would be the SEC’s 14th? If Texas said they’d come but only if they could pick 2 companions would the SEC take that deal?

One of the "other two" would definitely be Tech, as that would help them cover the whole state of Texas. Who would the 16th is anybody's guess. If Mizzou were to flip (and the only thing I see that would compel them to do so if they want to up their enrollment from the northern Midwest states and re-connect to the northern states in general), then Kansas is blocked out of consideration.

Another consideration is whether Vanderbilt would drop or not. That would put TCU, Rice or SMU in consideration. The complicating factor there is that the SEC would not want more than three Texas programs (ideally, no more than two). Tulane might be the private school that replaces Vanderbilt if it ever happens.

My best guess:

Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
Arkansas

Louisiana State
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Tulane

Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Kentucky

South Carolina
Florida
Georgia
West Virginia
10-08-2020 11:16 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #23
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 05:32 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Ok, so....

AAC
-----
East
-----
UCF, Cincinnati, (UConn), Iowa State, East Carolina, USF, Temple & West Virginia

-----
West
-----
Baylor, Houston, Memphis, Navy (FB), SMU, TCU, Tulane, & Tulsa

The 4 Big-12 teams would hold the remaining rights to maintain the Big-12 conference, and there would be no advantage in joining a non-P5 conference.

Rather than switching conferences, they might be better off replacing the departing members and expanding back to 12 member schools.

Rather than adding distant schools (UConn, ECU, USF, Navy, & Temple) they would be better off adding teams (e.g., BYU, CSU, Utah State, & Tulane or Rice) in or near the Big 12 footprint.


Expanded Big-12:

West Division:

Baylor
TCU
BYU
SMU
Utah State (regional rival for BYU)
Colorado State (or Tulsa)

POSSIBLE FB-ONLY MEMBER: BOISE, AIR FORCE, OR SDSU

East Division:

Iowa State
West Virginia
Memphis
Cincinnati
Houston
Tulane
(or Rice)

POSSIBLE FB-ONLY MEMBER: UCF OR NAVY
.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 08:12 AM by jedclampett.)
10-09-2020 03:20 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
OU and UT would obviously have to jettison, but to where? OU and B1G I feel is more likely than OU to the SEC. Pac12 is moving toward irrelevance and needs to change something. I think the politics will play a role. If Austin becomes a lot more left leaning and forges partnerships with those other west coast schools you can see a marriage there, but not without OU. Otherwise UT will be looking to partner with ND to the ACC or B1G.
10-09-2020 05:50 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #25
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 05:30 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Anyone see Van Halen live?

What’s the best Van Halen concert of all-time? Tokyo Dome in ‘89?

Saw VH at least once in the "golden era" (I recall it was 1980) and maybe twice. Then once more about eight years ago. Each time in Nashville.

Not sure about the best VH show of all time. A good friend is a monster VH fan. He saw them in Mexico and got to meet the band. I'm sure he has some thoughts on the greatest Van Halen performances.

Edward Van Halen was a masterful guitar player whose impact on the rock and roll culture cannot be understated.
10-09-2020 08:29 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #26
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 05:09 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I know I'm wasting my time saying this but: PLEASE don't fight the hypothetical! Anyway, here's the scenario:

1) B1G invite KU and UVa. Are told,"We need to bring along our 'little brother'." Big 10 agrees

2) PAC XII Invites OU and UT, are ALSO told "little bro comes along". PAC is like,"Cool with us, PAC-16!"

3) POTUS instructs SECDEF that AFA and Navy must go Indy

As a result:

1) What's left of the BIG XII joins the AAC

2) MWC stands pat

What, if anything, does the ACC do?

Has the season ended. Are we in the off season already when threads of this nature pop up????????? 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 03-shhhh 03-shhhh 03-idea 03-idea05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 07-coffee3
10-09-2020 08:51 AM
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EdwordL Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 06:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:07 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Why don't a hoops blue blood and the reigning champ add value?

Because hoops is a small part of value.

BB would add more value if the income for March Madness did not first go to the NCAA for the NCAA to get its cut, then distribute to all the Div. 1 conferences.

If the top income producers of the P5 (anywhere from 48 to 64 schools) were to separate from the NCAA and form a separate superleague with a separate administration, all of that tournament income would reside with the new superleague. NCAA owns the name "March Madness" but how many viewers would the NCAA tournament draw w/o the big schools (a "Cinderellas only" tournament, if you will)?

Edit to add: This would be a breakaway based on FB that would command big contracts from the networks but by including BB would greatly elevate the value of the entire contract.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 09:03 AM by EdwordL.)
10-09-2020 08:55 AM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 05:30 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Anyone see Van Halen live?

What’s the best Van Halen concert of all-time? Tokyo Dome in ‘89?

I know we lose great musicians, entertainers, and actors every year but this year just seems to be hitting a little bit harder. This guy death went under the radar because he passed on the same day Eddie passed:

[Image: 220px-I_can_see_clearly_now_%28Johnny_Nash%29.jpg]

I always thought this guy was white...lol! But I Can See Clearly Now was a number one hit and it has been cover by many other artist that also had Top 20 hits with their renditions of this song.
10-09-2020 08:56 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #29
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 08:55 AM)EdwordL Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:07 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Why don't a hoops blue blood and the reigning champ add value?

Because hoops is a small part of value.

BB would add more value if the income for March Madness did not first go to the NCAA for the NCAA to get its cut, then distribute to all the Div. 1 conferences.

If the top income producers of the P5 (anywhere from 48 to 64 schools) were to separate from the NCAA and form a separate superleague with a separate administration, all of that tournament income would reside with the new superleague. NCAA owns the name "March Madness" but how many viewers would the NCAA tournament draw w/o the big schools (a "Cinderellas only" tournament, if you will)?

Edit to add: This would be a breakaway based on FB that would command big contracts from the networks but by including BB would greatly elevate the value of the entire contract.

It’s not happening. The power conferences could not even agree on how to play this season— even within their own conferences. You think they have such unity they are going to be able to figure out a 48-64 team Superconference? Also you aren’t going to be able to do it without including the Big East and some other major basketball programs outside the P5 like Gonzaga, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, etc.
10-09-2020 09:11 AM
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utpotts Online
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Post: #30
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
Does the Rona kill brain cells as well???
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 10:26 AM by utpotts.)
10-09-2020 10:26 AM
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Thiefery Offline
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Post: #31
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 05:50 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  OU and UT would obviously have to jettison, but to where? OU and B1G I feel is more likely than OU to the SEC. Pac12 is moving toward irrelevance and needs to change something. I think the politics will play a role. If Austin becomes a lot more left leaning and forges partnerships with those other west coast schools you can see a marriage there, but not without OU. Otherwise UT will be looking to partner with ND to the ACC or B1G.

LOL most school presidents are liberal. Texas will not head west, more likely, the west goes towards Texas.

I was a firm believer that UT would never go to the SEC, but if the Big 12 goes for whatever reasons, I just don't see Texas going to the ACC or even being independent. I don't see a deal with the BIG because, what's in it for them to be grouped with MN, WI,IL, NW, etc?

So unless they come together with SC and form a new conference with ou... I see them going to the SEC. Think they bring Tech, and they keep LHN until the deal expires or if ESPN buys them out. ou would most likely head to the BIG w/ or without osu.

Atleast then UT will get to play ark, LSU, aggy, tech and of course ou in Dallas every season. Finally be able to resume thansgiving tradition of playing aggy
10-09-2020 12:20 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #32
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 12:20 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(10-09-2020 05:50 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  OU and UT would obviously have to jettison, but to where? OU and B1G I feel is more likely than OU to the SEC. Pac12 is moving toward irrelevance and needs to change something. I think the politics will play a role. If Austin becomes a lot more left leaning and forges partnerships with those other west coast schools you can see a marriage there, but not without OU. Otherwise UT will be looking to partner with ND to the ACC or B1G.

Texas will not head west, more likely, the west goes towards Texas.

I just don't see Texas going to the ACC....

So ... I see them going to the SEC.


OK - - so what you're saying is that the west will chase Texas all the way to the east until Texas becomes an eastern team...

....could happen....
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 12:53 PM by jedclampett.)
10-09-2020 12:52 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 10:17 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 05:09 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  ...What's left of the BIG XII joins the AAC

The main problem with this scenario - - even if half of the Big 12 schools were to switch conferences - - is that it wouldn't make sense for the remaining teams to move to a non-P5 conference.

It would probably be much more likely that they would add enough non-P5 full-member schools to expand membership to a total of 12,
thus making the "Big-12" a a 12-team conference.

The most likely candidates, if travel distance were a major consideration, might be BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati (regional rivals for WV and Iowa State), and SMU. All five have reasonably good FB and BB programs.

Because the Big 8 and Big 12 have always maintained a strong (Mississippi River to Rocky Mountains) regional identity, with the single exception of WV, schools such as SDSU and UCF might be less likely to be invited into the Big 12.

In that case, schools in or near the Big-12's regional footprint, such as Colorado State and Tulane might be invited. Utah State is strong enough in FB and BB to merit an invitation, and would provide BYU with a nearby rival. Rice would be given consideration, due to their location, AAU status and long history in the SWC.

The most likely new Big-12 members:

BYU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati


The next most likely new Big-12 members:

SMU
Colorado State
Utah State
Tulane


Other possible, but somewhat less likely Big-12 members, due to higher travel costs or less competitive teams:

UCF
SDSU
Rice

I would speculate that with TX out the picture in this scenario and that TX being a main reason for TX A&M, MO, CO, NE for leaving a few years ago.

I would propose initially inviting the those teams back first.

Scenario 1: Invite back Big-12 Alumni

Texas A&M
Missouri
Colorado
Nebraska


Next invite the candidates who were a major consideration, during the pseudo expansion beauty pageant and try to poach from the Pac-12.

Scenario 2: Invite strongest candidates from last Big-12 expansion pageant fiasco and poach Pac-12:


SMU
Houston
BYU
Utah


With BYU & UT you have the Holy War Rivalry and the state of Utah. SMU & Houston would give you an additional foothold in Texas and SWC connection.

Still maintains the strong Big 8 and Big 12 (Mississippi River to Rocky Mountains) regional identity. WV would still be an outlier.

Depending on who accepts or rejects the Big 12 invite the next possible candidates would be within or adjacent the Big-12's regional footprint and/or based on the schools' merit may be invited. Rice would be given consideration, due to their location in TX, AAU status and SWC ties to other Big 12 members.

Scenario 3: Other possible Big-12 invites

Colorado St
Air Force
Utah State
Memphis
Cincinnati
Tulane


Other possibilities, but more likely as football only Big-12 members, due to higher travel costs due to location and being an outlier as a full member:

Boise State
SDSU
UCF

Since we're entertaining possible scenarios...
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 02:38 PM by joeben69.)
10-09-2020 02:36 PM
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TardisCaptain Online
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Post: #34
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
If there is still a Big XII, they are poaching the teams they think will help the league's profile. There would not be a full merger with a non-P5 league. Why take another league's low profile schools?
10-09-2020 02:50 PM
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Erictelevision Online
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RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
Tardis answered the question I was gonna ask Jed.
10-09-2020 03:06 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #36
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 10:17 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 05:09 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  ...What's left of the BIG XII joins the AAC


The main problem with this scenario - - even if half of the Big 12 schools were to switch conferences - - is that it wouldn't make sense for the remaining teams to move to a non-P5 conference.

It would probably be much more likely that they would add enough non-P5 full-member schools to expand membership to a total of 12,
thus making the "Big-12" a a 12-team conference.

The most likely candidates, if travel distance were a major consideration, might be BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati (regional rivals for WV and Iowa State), and SMU. All five have reasonably good FB and BB programs.

Because the Big 8 and Big 12 have always maintained a strong (Mississippi River to Rocky Mountains) regional identity, with the single exception of WV, schools such as SDSU and UCF might be less likely to be invited into the Big 12.

In that case, schools in or near the Big-12's regional footprint, such as Colorado State and Tulane might be invited. Utah State is strong enough in FB and BB to merit an invitation, and would provide BYU with a nearby rival. Rice would be given consideration, due to their location, AAU status and long history in the SWC.

The most likely new Big-12 members:

BYU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati


The next most likely new Big-12 members:

SMU
Colorado State
Utah State
Tulane


Other possible, but somewhat less likely Big-12 members, due to higher travel costs or less competitive teams:

UCF
SDSU
Rice

I think Iowa State, West Virginia, Baylor, and Texas Christian would take the G5 schools that would most help their football profile. So the schools that have been to major bowls and have the recent history of winning. Also, I think they will want to keep the number of members at 10. That way they can maximize revenue. 9 football games plus a championship game, 18 basketball games and the minimum number of Olympic sports sponsored by the conference since they are so geographically dispersed.


Baylor
Boise State
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Houston
Iowa State
Memphis
Texas Christian
West Virginia
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2020 04:32 PM by ChrisLords.)
10-09-2020 04:32 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 04:32 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 10:17 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 05:09 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  ...What's left of the BIG XII joins the AAC


The main problem with this scenario - - even if half of the Big 12 schools were to switch conferences - - is that it wouldn't make sense for the remaining teams to move to a non-P5 conference.

It would probably be much more likely that they would add enough non-P5 full-member schools to expand membership to a total of 12,
thus making the "Big-12" a a 12-team conference.

The most likely candidates, if travel distance were a major consideration, might be BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati (regional rivals for WV and Iowa State), and SMU. All five have reasonably good FB and BB programs.

Because the Big 8 and Big 12 have always maintained a strong (Mississippi River to Rocky Mountains) regional identity, with the single exception of WV, schools such as SDSU and UCF might be less likely to be invited into the Big 12.

In that case, schools in or near the Big-12's regional footprint, such as Colorado State and Tulane might be invited. Utah State is strong enough in FB and BB to merit an invitation, and would provide BYU with a nearby rival. Rice would be given consideration, due to their location, AAU status and long history in the SWC.

The most likely new Big-12 members:

BYU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati


The next most likely new Big-12 members:

SMU
Colorado State
Utah State
Tulane


Other possible, but somewhat less likely Big-12 members, due to higher travel costs or less competitive teams:

UCF
SDSU
Rice

I think Iowa State, West Virginia, Baylor, and Texas Christian would take the G5 schools that would most help their football profile. So the schools that have been to major bowls and have the recent history of winning. Also, I think they will want to keep the number of members at 10. That way they can maximize revenue. 9 football games plus a championship game, 18 basketball games and the minimum number of Olympic sports sponsored by the conference since they are so geographically dispersed.


Baylor
Boise State
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Houston
Iowa State
Memphis
Texas Christian
West Virginia

I think you could get to 12 with South Florida and, say, SMU. Split divisions by geography.

West: Baylor, Boise St, BYU, Iowa St, SMU, TCU
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, West Virginia
10-09-2020 04:43 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #38
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 02:50 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  If there is still a Big XII, they are poaching the teams they think will help the league's profile. There would not be a full merger with a non-P5 league. Why take another league's low profile schools?

Yes, it would be like the Big East - as schools left for the ACC, Big 12 and B1G, the left-behinds, USF, Cincy, and UConn poached non-AQ teams to backfill, and they were willing to because the left-behinds still had the cachet of being a BCS-AQ league.

Same would happen to the Big 12. The left-behinds would skim cream from the AAC and the MW to reconstitute.
10-09-2020 05:09 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #39
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-08-2020 11:16 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-08-2020 06:07 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Why don't a hoops blue blood and the reigning champ add value?

Because hoops is a small part of value.


I am with Quo on this. People bring KU and other football lightweights to the B10– it isn’t happening. The B10 already has enough football weak sisters in Rutgers, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, etc. Ohio State, PSU, Michigan and Wisconsin aren’t adding more schools that struggle to win 4 games a year.

The Big Ten could stomach Kansas but only if they were paired with a real football blueblood like Oklahoma.

Here’s an interesting thought—if the Big Ten were to add Oklahoma and Missouri who would be the SEC’s 14th? If Texas said they’d come but only if they could pick 2 companions would the SEC take that deal?

One of the "other two" would definitely be Tech, as that would help them cover the whole state of Texas. Who would the 16th is anybody's guess. If Mizzou were to flip (and the only thing I see that would compel them to do so if they want to up their enrollment from the northern Midwest states and re-connect to the northern states in general), then Kansas is blocked out of consideration.

Another consideration is whether Vanderbilt would drop or not. That would put TCU, Rice or SMU in consideration. The complicating factor there is that the SEC would not want more than three Texas programs (ideally, no more than two). Tulane might be the private school that replaces Vanderbilt if it ever happens.

My best guess:

Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
Arkansas

Louisiana State
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Tulane

Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Kentucky

South Carolina
Florida
Georgia
West Virginia

On second thought they may not care about a 16th program unless it's a "must" program to have. They'd probably hold their nose on Tech to get UT but stop at fifteen unless Vandy drops out.

B1G West
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Northwestern
Illinois

B1G East
Purdue
Indiana
Michigan State
Michigan
Penn State
Ohio State
Maryland
Rutgers

SEC
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Arkansas
Louisiana State

Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Vanderbilt

Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
Tennessee
Kentucky
10-09-2020 10:19 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #40
RE: How the Big XII and AAC would eventually merge
(10-09-2020 04:43 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I think you could get to 12 with South Florida and, say, SMU. Split divisions by geography.

West: Baylor, Boise St, BYU, Iowa St, SMU, TCU
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, West Virginia

I think 10 schools would lead to more money per school, but if they went with your 12 schools, I think Iowa State would want to be in the East and Houston would want to be with the other 3 Texas schools.

So,

West: Baylor, Boise St, BYU, Houston, SMU, TCU
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa St, Memphis, South Florida, West Virginia
10-09-2020 11:56 PM
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