(10-06-2020 06:14 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  Upper-level university administration jobs are political in nature, and require tact and diplomacy in managing one's critics. Part of that is getting other people to buy into your vision. If the people on this board--who desperately wish for the success of football and men's basketball--aren't buying into what is basically that same vision, then something has gone wrong.

To elaborate on this a little bit--we were never really sold on the seven cuts, nor were any of the sports given a fair shot at bailing themselves out through private fundraising. Throwing a bunch of money at splash moves like rebrands and contract buyouts and new administrative positions, then turning around and telling basically successful programs on shoestring budgets to eat you-know-what... well, it looks like bad faith. Then when the programs offer to raise the money themselves, she just says "my decision was final." Wasn't there a more diplomatic solution there? Because it *looks* like she wanted to cut these sports for a long time and COVID gave her a convenient out. Again, I don't have any insider info but that's what it *looks* like from the outside.

(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 06:14 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  Upper-level university administration jobs are political in nature, and require tact and diplomacy in managing one's critics. Part of that is getting other people to buy into your vision. If the people on this board--who desperately wish for the success of football and men's basketball--aren't buying into what is basically that same vision, then something has gone wrong.

To elaborate on this a little bit--we were never really sold on the seven cuts, nor were any of the sports given a fair shot at bailing themselves out through private fundraising. Throwing a bunch of money at splash moves like rebrands and contract buyouts and new administrative positions, then turning around and telling basically successful programs on shoestring budgets to eat you-know-what... well, it looks like bad faith. Then when the programs offer to raise the money themselves, she just says "my decision was final." Wasn't there a more diplomatic solution there? Because it *looks* like she wanted to cut these sports for a long time and COVID gave her a convenient out. Again, I don't have any insider info but that's what it *looks* like from the outside.

Yeah, I really agree there. Good points. That was the first failing -- using covid as cover for a decision that was, plainly, not about covid.

(10-06-2020 03:13 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote:  Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.

Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.

Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.

She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.

The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)

So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.

Agreed. The plagiarism was the icing on the cake. If you made these egregious mistakes at a non-academic, they might be overlooked.
She became an embarrassment to College and academy, which could not be accepted.

I know this is big news, but we need to focus on where we go from here. Huge is gone. Long gone.

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(10-06-2020 06:01 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 05:35 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Time to regroup, heal from a three year disaster, and move on. Really hope Rowe brings in someone great...this will be a monumental hire.





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This wasn't a three year disaster. It was only a disaster in some minds. She made some good and needed hires for hoops and football. She set us on a course for MUCH better athletic facilities. She handled many, non-public situations within athletics extremely well. She was on high-profile NCAA committees that could only help us. In my mind she absolutely botched a needed cutting of an overly high number of sports and fanned the fire of the never-Huges. While many (especially on this board) never really gave her a chance, I think it was a beneficial three years that have been pissed away by the pitchfork brigade. It will be years before the Tribe recovers from that. Not Huge.

I stand corrected. She was a 3 years 7 months disaster.

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You’re making headway Tribal. You’ve admitted to a mistake.

(10-06-2020 07:24 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I know this is big news, but we need to focus on where we go from here. Huge is gone. Long gone.

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Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:24 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I know this is big news, but we need to focus on where we go from here. Huge is gone. Long gone.

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Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

If I can admit to a mistake, you can overcome your desire to defend Hurricane Huge in the face of overwhelming evidence. :)

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(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:24 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I know this is big news, but we need to focus on where we go from here. Huge is gone. Long gone.

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Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

For perspective, please post the five most positive/impactful things that Huge did in her 3+ years and the five most negative/least impactful things Driscoll did in his last 3+ years, in your opinion. Thank you.

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.

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(10-06-2020 07:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:24 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I know this is big news, but we need to focus on where we go from here. Huge is gone. Long gone.

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Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

If I can admit to a mistake, you can overcome your desire to defend Hurricane Huge in the face of overwhelming evidence. :)

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Yours is a longer lived issue, so maybe. : )

However, I do actually agree with her larger decisions. Her ultimate undoing was the management of this one and the underestimation of the power of satisfaction with status quo at William & Mary. No real step forward was ok here and that, along with major missteps with the cutting of the 7 sports, did her in.

(10-06-2020 08:19 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.

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Man this would be a great outcome, IMO.
Really hoping this is the path that we go down. I just worry (as a very recent alum) with our historical tendency to rubber band, for instance wanting to go ACC and putting in legwork in then, with the next president instead shooting for competing with the Ivy League or joining it(?).

If I got those details wrong I’m all ears, I’m a nerd for that stuff.

(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 06:14 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  Upper-level university administration jobs are political in nature, and require tact and diplomacy in managing one's critics. Part of that is getting other people to buy into your vision. If the people on this board--who desperately wish for the success of football and men's basketball--aren't buying into what is basically that same vision, then something has gone wrong.

To elaborate on this a little bit--we were never really sold on the seven cuts, nor were any of the sports given a fair shot at bailing themselves out through private fundraising. Throwing a bunch of money at splash moves like rebrands and contract buyouts and new administrative positions, then turning around and telling basically successful programs on shoestring budgets to eat you-know-what... well, it looks like bad faith. Then when the programs offer to raise the money themselves, she just says "my decision was final." Wasn't there a more diplomatic solution there? Because it *looks* like she wanted to cut these sports for a long time and COVID gave her a convenient out. Again, I don't have any insider info but that's what it *looks* like from the outside.

A lot of the deeply unpopular things Huge did (pushing out JL, cutting sports, steering money to the revenue sports) were things staring Driscoll in the face that he left for the new guy to do. Driscoll didn't want blood on his hands and angry folks in the Old Boys Club. Huge had to do deeply unpopular things and then chose to do more deeply unpopular things like fire Shaver (even if you think it was justified, it was messy, ugly, badly argued and ill-timed) while not putting much effort into winning over the Old Boys Club.

Imho, Driscoll retired in place and didn't want to do the difficult things that were staring him in the face. Huge embraced all change and plowed full speed ahead without regard to institutional realities or stakeholder desires in a very impolitic manner.

Let's hope that we can find someone that is a happy medium between the two.

GO TRIBE!

(10-06-2020 02:55 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:33 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  https://twitter.com/jfeinsteinbooks/stat...8292690950

didn’t take long for Feinstein to get a shot in, have to wonder how many more are coming...

Feinstein was really upset when two coaches in JL and Shaver that gave good quotes were let go and never forgave Huge for that.

Feinstein is a sports God who generally nails it. Lot of folks now him as a broadcaster, but he wrote arguably three of the best sports books of all time — Season On The Brink, A Good Walk Spoiled & Living On The Black. He has a perspective that we lack, so for him to weigh in on this is a big deal.

(10-06-2020 06:43 PM)TheRightWay Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:13 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote:  Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.

Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.

Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.

She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.

The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)

So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.

Agreed. The plagiarism was the icing on the cake. If you made these egregious mistakes at a non-academic, they might be overlooked.
She became an embarrassment to College and academy, which could not be accepted.

She lied, cheated and tried to steal.

(10-06-2020 09:07 PM)Pete24 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 02:55 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:33 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  https://twitter.com/jfeinsteinbooks/stat...8292690950

didn’t take long for Feinstein to get a shot in, have to wonder how many more are coming...

Feinstein was really upset when two coaches in JL and Shaver that gave good quotes were let go and never forgave Huge for that.

Feinstein is a sports God who generally nails it. Lot of folks now him as a broadcaster, but he wrote arguably three of the best sports books of all time — Season On The Brink, A Good Walk Spoiled & Living On The Black. He has a perspective that we lack, so for him to weigh in on this is a big deal.

I am familiar with his work, thank you.

How you do things matter.

At the end of the day, you might be able to convince me that we needed to move on from Laycock and Shaver. You might also be able to convince me that we need to eliminate some sports that we offer to focus more on football and basketball.* But the manner in which Huge went about these decisions demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the W&M ethos.

I won't pretend to speak for all Tribe fans, students, and alums when I try to describe that ethos. And feel free to disagree with me. I may be wrong. But here's my take.

I think many of us on this board would bemoan the history of W&M faculty preventing the expansion of sports at the College. But I think we also embrace the underdog status of the rare small public school that is academically focused but nonetheless scraps its way to success in many underfunded sports in our D-I conference. While we all want to win an impressive national championship in football, and we'd love to finally get the Big Dance monkey off our back, W&M is not a "win at all cost" school.

I don't think Huge ever understood that. And I think the timing and the manner in which she rolled out major decisions (seemingly out of the blue and with little input from the W&M community) indicate a disabling ignorance of the culture of W&M (imho). I think it's fair to say that the W&M culture could use some change, but Huge turned it on its head.

It's not just that her "consultant speak" always felt disingenuous, condescending, and detached from W&M. Just saying "our values" over and over again does not mean you actually understand our values.

But worse, I always got the feeling that she viewed W&M as "just another college" that would look great on her resume as she revamped the athletics department based on getting into the NCAA tournament and being more competitive at football (at the expense of admired coaches and 7 Olympic sports).

In the end, though, I think W&M showed her that it's not "just another college."

*I don't think you'll ever convince me that the Harry Potter logo is better than the tried and true block W&M.

(10-06-2020 09:07 PM)Pete24 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 02:55 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:33 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  https://twitter.com/jfeinsteinbooks/stat...8292690950

didn’t take long for Feinstein to get a shot in, have to wonder how many more are coming...

Feinstein was really upset when two coaches in JL and Shaver that gave good quotes were let go and never forgave Huge for that.

Feinstein is a sports God who generally nails it. Lot of folks now him as a broadcaster, but he wrote arguably three of the best sports books of all time — Season On The Brink, A Good Walk Spoiled & Living On The Black. He has a perspective that we lack, so for him to weigh in on this is a big deal.

I've known him to take the absolutely wrong take or personal opinion take multiple times and never admit it, actually. I remember his far too early bandwagon approach to the Duke Lacrosse scandal lie that he simply slithered away.

(10-06-2020 08:19 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.

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This is what I will hope for but I can't imagine someone wanting the job until the university makes permanent the sports cuts.

(10-07-2020 07:53 AM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 08:19 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.

I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

This is what I will hope for but I can't imagine someone wanting the job until the university makes permanent the sports cuts.

I'm not so sure about that. You do understand that Rowe has essentially opened the dialogue regarding what people really want, don't you?

I could see us going backwards towards less focus on football and basketball if you let the professors and non-football people have a real seat at the table.

Whoever comes in next will surely have a specific agenda that lines up with whatever the BOV/President/Everyone else agrees on. That person had better have some social skills.