The shoe is now on the President and BOVs feet. I am happy Jeremy Martin is stepping in for the interim. In my limited dealings with him he has impressed.

I quite enjoy the pro-Huge temper tantrums.

Keep 'em coming.

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(10-06-2020 03:30 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.

Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.

At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.

Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.

I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.

Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.

I agree 100%. I personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.

Yeah, I agree with this also. Huge isn't out now because of her decisions or policies, it's because of the disastrous execution of them and the way she drove away significant portions of the alumni. I think the moves she made are supported by the BOV and Rowe.

(10-06-2020 03:30 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.

Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.

At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.

Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.

I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.

Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.

I agree 100%. I personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.

I don’t think they were blindsided by the decisions, but judging from my exchanges with President Rowe, I do believe she and the BOV were misled by Huge as to the necessity of the cuts. In other words, Huge told Rowe there is no other course of action, I tried everything I could (turned every stone), it’ll take 150 million to make these sports competitive, etc. Rowe can be faulted for not doing her own due diligence, but then again she has to delegate and take the advice of her Department heads on such matters.

I think at the end of the day, Huge was hired by Reveley and Rowe had an enormous amount of trust in her. You could see that they had a personal connection while at football and basketball games. Then I believe that Rowe needed to trust, but verify. When she got all of the information that lead to lack of trust. Time to move on.

(10-06-2020 03:45 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  I was on board with the arena, new logos, UA deal (ftr, I hated firing Tony). But to cut sports, you have to clear a certain level of trust with the community that she just never built.

I think if Huge/the school had done due diligence on this, it might have gone through. But this just seemed like a pet project instead of a necessity to benefit the school at large. And the PR disaster following it was more than enough to need to get rid of somebody.

So I've said to friends that this is about the ideal outcome for WM fans who wanted the school to take a few steps forward in the athletic department. If you had asked me at the end of Terry's tenure what was holding back WM I would have listed facilities, coaching, conference affiliation, and the breadth of sports offered. We got a new arena, new coaches, and tried to reallocate resources within the athletic department plus the person responsible for all those changes got fired so we can hopefully move on from this.

I'm not saying Huge did a good job (because she very obviously didn't) but the next hire is stepping into a role with a lot of upside.

(10-06-2020 04:02 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:30 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.

Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.

At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.

Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.

I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.

Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.

I agree 100%. I personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.

Yeah, I agree with this also. Huge isn't out now because of her decisions or policies, it's because of the disastrous execution of them and the way she drove away significant portions of the alumni. I think the moves she made are supported by the BOV and Rowe.

I wanted to share something from my personal experiences in big business. About 15 years ago I was an officer at a very well known company that was going through some big changes. They brought in an EVP to right the ship. He had a playbook written by GE, the Harvard Business Review and Gartner. If you looked at his playbook it was obvious that it was well grounded. He got rid of most of his direct reports (I worked for one of them) and brought in people with big resumes and little brains. He was in way over his head and couldn't execute anything. He also had no loyalty since he fired the old guard and brought in new folks. He started firing the new folks because they couldn't get anything done. A year later he was run out of town. Of course he landed on his feet somewhere else and stayed there until he retired.

It's all about "been there done that" and not about what the experts say. He would have been wise to keep some of the old guard around.

Sound familiar?

(10-06-2020 04:03 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  ... Rowe can be faulted for not doing her own due diligence, but then again she has to delegate and take the advice of her Department heads on such matters.

You are correct that leaders need to be able to delegate but when the topic is really, really big and really, really important (and Rowe certainly should have recognized that it was) then YOU have to do your own due diligence.

(10-06-2020 04:03 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:30 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.

Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.

At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.

Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.

I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.

Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.

I agree 100%. I personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.

I don’t think they were blindsided by the decisions, but judging from my exchanges with President Rowe, I do believe she and the BOV were misled by Huge as to the necessity of the cuts. In other words, Huge told Rowe there is no other course of action, I tried everything I could (turned every stone), it’ll take 150 million to make these sports competitive, etc. Rowe can be faulted for not doing her own due diligence, but then again she has to delegate and take the advice of her Department heads on such matters.

You're certainly not wrong on that last point. And it's quite possible that Huge did not give Rowe all the information that was needed to make this decision.

I don't want to insinuate anything, or make it sound like I know something I don't, or call into question Rowe's integrity. I do think it's important to keep in mind that Rowe's insistence that Huge wasn't fully honest with her makes Rowe look a looot better in this scenario.

Martin is a great guy. Excellent choice for the interim.

(10-06-2020 04:26 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:45 PM)NoBidNation Wrote:  I was on board with the arena, new logos, UA deal (ftr, I hated firing Tony). But to cut sports, you have to clear a certain level of trust with the community that she just never built.

I think if Huge/the school had done due diligence on this, it might have gone through. But this just seemed like a pet project instead of a necessity to benefit the school at large. And the PR disaster following it was more than enough to need to get rid of somebody.

So I've said to friends that this is about the ideal outcome for WM fans who wanted the school to take a few steps forward in the athletic department. If you had asked me at the end of Terry's tenure what was holding back WM I would have listed facilities, coaching, conference affiliation, and the breadth of sports offered. We got a new arena, new coaches, and tried to reallocate resources within the athletic department plus the person responsible for all those changes got fired so we can hopefully move on from this.

I'm not saying Huge did a good job (because she very obviously didn't) but the next hire is stepping into a role with a lot of upside.

Great point. Hope nothing happens to the arena renovation. That's much needed, regardless of how W&M chooses to move forward.

(10-06-2020 04:36 PM)TribePride52 Wrote:  Martin is a great guy. Excellent choice for the interim.

Second this.

I agree with those who say that Huge was just doing "what she was hired to do". She did it so poorly, however, that they were forced to get rid of her. I think the powers that be still want to proceed on with the original plan. They will probably hire a man (to avoid anti-woman bias), someone with more experience (perhaps with previous experience dropping sports), and who will be a lot better at PR (and will be much more circumspect about executing any cuts). So, in the long run, I think the powers still want to charge on.

To counter that, those of us who favor a broad-based athletic program hope that the powers have noticed that opposition is strong against the cuts. The data in favor of the cuts is faulty and doesn't support the actual need to cut sports (especially these self-supporting sports like swimming, gymnastics, and track). So, hopefully, the powers will actually do what they say they will do, namely: have open dialogue, listen, and work with stakeholders to come up with a plan that is tenable going forward. I think that such a plan can be found which does not involve dropping any sports.

She'll probably become the assistant commish of the CAA

(10-06-2020 04:50 PM)Zorch Wrote:  So, hopefully, the powers will actually do what they say they will do, namely: have open dialogue, listen, and work with stakeholders to come up with a plan that is tenable going forward. I think that such a plan can be found which does not involve dropping any sports.

Frankly, I'd like that dialogue to be even broader and more transparent. It is clear that the school wants to elevate football and basketball. Setting aside whether we, the alumni, fans, and donors, are willing to cut resources to other sports in order to accomplish this, what is the end goal for those two sports? Are we happy in the CAA for football? For basketball? If we move basketball will the CAA let us leave football in conference? Does the administration want us to move to FBS? Where does the school want to be when the next major realignment hits college sports?

(10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote:  Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.

Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.

Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.

Hahaha, RICHMOND IS A HORRIBLE SCHOOL FILLED WITH HORRIBLE PEOPLE.

Not to give Rowe a pass on everything, as all moves are made with her stamp of approval, this has to be one of the most hectic times in the history of the College, and higher education nationwide. She did likely defer to Huge too much, but there's a lot on Rowe's plate right now.

(10-06-2020 03:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Time to regroup, heal from a three year disaster, and move on. Really hope Rowe brings in someone great...this will be a monumental hire.





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This wasn't a three year disaster. It was only a disaster in some minds. She made some good and needed hires for hoops and football. She set us on a course for MUCH better athletic facilities. She handled many, non-public situations within athletics extremely well. She was on high-profile NCAA committees that could only help us. In my mind she absolutely botched a needed cutting of an overly high number of sports and fanned the fire of the never-Huges. While many (especially on this board) never really gave her a chance, I think it was a beneficial three years that have been pissed away by the pitchfork brigade. It will be years before the Tribe recovers from that. Not Huge.

(10-06-2020 05:35 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 03:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Time to regroup, heal from a three year disaster, and move on. Really hope Rowe brings in someone great...this will be a monumental hire.





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This wasn't a three year disaster. It was only a disaster in some minds. She made some good and needed hires for hoops and football. She set us on a course for MUCH better athletic facilities. She handled many, non-public situations within athletics extremely well. She was on high-profile NCAA committees that could only help us. In my mind she absolutely botched a needed cutting of an overly high number of sports and fanned the fire of the never-Huges. While many (especially on this board) never really gave her a chance, I think it was a beneficial three years that have been pissed away by the pitchfork brigade. It will be years before the Tribe recovers from that. Not Huge.

I stand corrected. She was a 3 years 7 months disaster.

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My assessment watching all this unfold:

-----pros-----

-Love the facilities upgrade for Kaplan
-Like the football hire
-Like the basketball hire
-Intrigued by the pivot to basketball

-----cons-----

-Hate the rebrand
-Hate the Shaver firing
-Hate the Daly "retiring"
-Don't like cutting 7 sports
-Don't like the personal diplomacy

All-in-all, an ugly way to go out for--to put it lightly--a polarizing AD. It is not lost on me that college sports have gotten completely out of hand, and situations like COVID only illustrate the fragility of these over-scaled money-losing operations. ADs are put into difficult situations and expected to make decisions that will leave some stakeholders unhappy. Upper-level university administration jobs are political in nature, and require tact and diplomacy in managing one's critics. Part of that is getting other people to buy into your vision. If the people on this board--who desperately wish for the success of football and men's basketball--aren't buying into what is basically that same vision, then something has gone wrong.