(10-21-2020 05:47 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

The travel cost might not be as bad as one might think.

Play your division (twice) and 6 of 7 teams from other division (3 home & 3 road) for an 18 game conference schedule. The Texas schools would only need to leave their state four time (Chicago & three western teams) for conference play.

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)
Lamar (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas)
Sam Houston State (Texas)
Tarleton State (Texas)
UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California)
Dixie State (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona)
New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)
Southern Utah (Utah)
Utah Valley (Utah)

Setup as travel partners...

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas) / Tarleton State (Texas)
Lamar (Texas) / UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas) / Sam Houston State (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California) / Utah Valley (Utah)
Dixie State (Utah) / Southern Utah (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona) / New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)

I like that plan

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

Let's assume for a moment these five D1 schools do come over and West Texas A&M joins in place of Chicago State. Now the WAC is a 14-school conference with seven members in Texas. That's perfect for divisional play. For basketball, each school could have a 16-game schedule consisting of 12 games within its division and 4 games outside its division. The 4 games against non-division opponents would be split 2 home and 2 away. That means the Texas schools would only have to make one road trip outside Texas per season and the schools outside Texas would only have to make one road trip to Texas per season. From a travel expense perspective that would be no big deal.

On the upside, the new WAC would be much stronger than the current Southland in basketball, and the eight members playing FCS football would be able to play a full round-robin conference schedule which isn't possible in the Southland today.

(10-21-2020 05:47 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

The travel cost might not be as bad as one might think.

Play your division (twice) and 6 of 7 teams from other division (3 home & 3 road) for an 18 game conference schedule. The Texas schools would only need to leave their state four time (Chicago & three western teams) for conference play.

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)
Lamar (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas)
Sam Houston State (Texas)
Tarleton State (Texas)
UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California)
Dixie State (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona)
New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)
Southern Utah (Utah)
Utah Valley (Utah)

Setup as travel partners...

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas) / Tarleton State (Texas)
Lamar (Texas) / UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas) / Sam Houston State (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California) / Utah Valley (Utah)
Dixie State (Utah) / Southern Utah (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona) / New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)

Hmmmm, very interesting...

(10-21-2020 05:47 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

The travel cost might not be as bad as one might think.

Play your division (twice) and 6 of 7 teams from other division (3 home & 3 road) for an 18 game conference schedule. The Texas schools would only need to leave their state four time (Chicago & three western teams) for conference play.

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)
Lamar (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas)
Sam Houston State (Texas)
Tarleton State (Texas)
UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California)
Dixie State (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona)
New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)
Southern Utah (Utah)
Utah Valley (Utah)

Setup as travel partners...

Eastern Division...
Abilene Christian (Texas) / Tarleton State (Texas)
Lamar (Texas) / UT Rio Grande Valley (Texas)
Stephen F. Austin (Texas) / Sam Houston State (Texas)
Chicago State (Illinois)

Western Division...
California Baptist (California) / Utah Valley (Utah)
Dixie State (Utah) / Southern Utah (Utah)
Grand Canyon (Arizona) / New Mexico State (New Mexico)
Seattle University (Washington)

Why would SHSU, SFA, Lamar, ACU leave a compact SLC to play Chicago St, UTRGV, and Tarleton? Those 3 teams aren’t any better or worse than UIW, HBU, and whoever else they don’t like in the Southland. A 14 team, 1 bid league makes no sense, no matter where the schools are located.

I'm afraid anyone wanting to avoid travel is not ever going to be right for the WAC. I could envision some of these Texas schools in a WAC affiliated football conference more than as full members.

(10-21-2020 08:48 PM)Todor Wrote:  I'm afraid anyone wanting to avoid travel is not ever going to be right for the WAC. I could envision some of these Texas schools in a WAC affiliated football conference more than as full members.

Doubtful. There is no reason to leave a stable "regional" FCS football conference in order to become an associate member of a new unstable FCS football conference in the WAC. The motivation for schools like SFA, SHSU, Lamar, and ACU to leave the Southland have to do more with bettering their whole situation. Maybe they have come to the realization that the Southland Conference will always be a perennial bottom feeder in basketball. So, maybe they think by joining the WAC and combining efforts with the WAC schools could propel the WAC into becoming a major player among the mid-majors and in turn better the situation of these individual schools.

Conference RPI rankings out of 33 conferences...

2013-14... WAC (22)... SLC (27)
2014-15... WAC (31)... SLC (29)
2015-16... WAC (26)... SLC (30)
2016-17... WAC (17)... SLC (26)
2017-18... WAC (15)... SLC (29)
2018-19... WAC (16)... SLC (30)
2018-20... WAC (27)... SLC (30)

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

Yeah. How often does a mass of lower-budget schools shift to a more expensive, geographically dispersed conference? This isn’t a group climbing the ladder into the P5, AAC, or MWC. This would be unprecedented. I’m filing this under ‘pipe dream’ until better sources come out.

The goal is FBS with the WAC. That is why the so called “lateral move” to a lower tiered conference is being talked about. I also agree that the move for any or all of the mentioned SLC teams would increase the Conference’s Basketball footprint to where the WAC would be considered and serious mid major instead of a bottom feeder Cinderella like the current state of the SLC.

(10-22-2020 07:12 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  The goal is FBS with the WAC. That is why the so called “lateral move” to a lower tiered conference is being talked about. I also agree that the move for any or all of the mentioned SLC teams would increase the Conference’s Basketball footprint to where the WAC would be considered and serious mid major instead of a bottom feeder Cinderella like the current state of the SLC.

SFA would be a great add but I'm not sure that the other three would move the perception of the league at all. I never knew how bad the Southland was until the comments on here pointed that out. ACU, SHSU, and Lamar had NET rankings of 194, 228, and 267 respectively. Heck even SFAs NET was only 77. The addition of those four doesn't turn the WAC into a 2 bid league like some are saying.

(10-21-2020 09:16 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 08:48 PM)Todor Wrote:  I'm afraid anyone wanting to avoid travel is not ever going to be right for the WAC. I could envision some of these Texas schools in a WAC affiliated football conference more than as full members.

Doubtful. There is no reason to leave a stable "regional" FCS football conference in order to become an associate member of a new unstable FCS football conference in the WAC. The motivation for schools like SFA, SHSU, Lamar, and ACU to leave the Southland have to do more with bettering their whole situation. Maybe they have come to the realization that the Southland Conference will always be a perennial bottom feeder in basketball. So, maybe they think by joining the WAC and combining efforts with the WAC schools could propel the WAC into becoming a major player among the mid-majors and in turn better the situation of these individual schools.

Conference RPI rankings out of 33 conferences...

2013-14... WAC (22)... SLC (27)
2014-15... WAC (31)... SLC (29)
2015-16... WAC (26)... SLC (30)
2016-17... WAC (17)... SLC (26)
2017-18... WAC (15)... SLC (29)
2018-19... WAC (16)... SLC (30)
2018-20... WAC (27)... SLC (30)

I only meant that if there was ever any reason for them to join the WAC it would be more likely for football reasons (whatever they may be at the time) than for all sports.

(10-22-2020 07:27 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 07:12 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  The goal is FBS with the WAC. That is why the so called “lateral move” to a lower tiered conference is being talked about. I also agree that the move for any or all of the mentioned SLC teams would increase the Conference’s Basketball footprint to where the WAC would be considered and serious mid major instead of a bottom feeder Cinderella like the current state of the SLC.

SFA would be a great add but I'm not sure that the other three would move the perception of the league at all. I never knew how bad the Southland was until the comments on here pointed that out. ACU, SHSU, and Lamar had NET rankings of 194, 228, and 267 respectively. Heck even SFAs NET was only 77. The addition of those four doesn't turn the WAC into a 2 bid league like some are saying.

And I'm not sure the longer term history of SFA is promising enough to warrant a move up for them. I don't recall hearing much about them until lately.They really hadn't done much in their history until about 10 years ago. Although they do have 2 tourney wins since...

Just letting you guys know what I hear... like last year when I said that WT and 4 SLC teams would receive in invite... well?

(10-21-2020 06:03 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 05:23 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll believe when I see it. Not sure why these schools would leave to join the WAC. Increased travel expenses and it’s not like there’s a large media contract waiting to be had.

Let's assume for a moment these five D1 schools do come over and West Texas A&M joins in place of Chicago State. Now the WAC is a 14-school conference with seven members in Texas. That's perfect for divisional play. For basketball, each school could have a 16-game schedule consisting of 12 games within its division and 4 games outside its division. The 4 games against non-division opponents would be split 2 home and 2 away. That means the Texas schools would only have to make one road trip outside Texas per season and the schools outside Texas would only have to make one road trip to Texas per season. From a travel expense perspective that would be no big deal.

On the upside, the new WAC would be much stronger than the current Southland in basketball, and the eight members playing FCS football would be able to play a full round-robin conference schedule which isn't possible in the Southland today.

Let's not assume that since Chicago State is not leaving and there has been no mention of West Texas A&M joining. Why is it so hard to keep things to schools that are actually being mentioned?

(10-22-2020 08:02 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Just letting you guys know what I hear... like last year when I said that WT and 4 SLC teams would receive in invite... well?

I haven't heard WT's name come up anywhere other than this board. Are you saying someone is telling you the WAC has FBS aspirations? What I was told was the WAC was looking at FCS. From what I have read, most, if not all, the football stadiums of these schools can't even hold 15k. The FBS minimum attendance is 15k every 2 years. That is a very large leap for the attendance numbers these schools currently have.

(10-21-2020 04:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think the hopeful addition of SFA and Sam Houston State would bring immediate respectability to the WAC in basketball; along with the recent success of Abilene Christian and past success of Lamar. An addition like this would put the WAC on par with the Missouri Valley.

This isn't true.

If you remove Chicago St (NMSU/GCU/UTRGV/UVU/CBU/SU + SFA/ACU/SHSU/Lamar), the WAC still comes out far behind the Missouri Valley.

8 of the top 10 NET hail from the MVC while the MVC's median ranking (129) outpaces the WAC's median ranking (227) by nearly 100 spots.

48 UNI (MVC)
77 SFA (WAC)
98 LUC (MVC)
102 BU (MVC)
104 NMSU (WAC)
105 INST (MVC)
119 MOST (MVC)
138 VU (MVC)
156 DU (MVC)
162 SIU (MVC)
194 ACU (WAC)
196 ILST (MVC)
200 CBU (WAC)
226 SU (WAC)
228 SHSU (WAC)
250 UVU (WAC)
260 UTRGV (WAC)
264 UE (MVC)
267 Lamar (WAC)
278 GCU (WAC)

Also, going by NCAA Tournament wins by these 20 schools:

Since 2015
MVC 6
WAC 1

MVC had 2 teams finish top-15 in the postseason coaches poll (#7 Loyola-'18, #14 UNI-'15).

(10-22-2020 09:09 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 04:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think the hopeful addition of SFA and Sam Houston State would bring immediate respectability to the WAC in basketball; along with the recent success of Abilene Christian and past success of Lamar. An addition like this would put the WAC on par with the Missouri Valley.

This isn't true.

If you remove Chicago St (NMSU/GCU/UTRGV/UVU/CBU/SU + SFA/ACU/SHSU/Lamar), the WAC still comes out far behind the Missouri Valley.

8 of the top 10 NET hail from the MVC while the MVC's median ranking (129) outpaces the WAC's median ranking (227) by nearly 100 spots.

48 UNI (MVC)
77 SFA (WAC)
98 LUC (MVC)
102 BU (MVC)
104 NMSU (WAC)
105 INST (MVC)
119 MOST (MVC)
138 VU (MVC)
156 DU (MVC)
162 SIU (MVC)
194 ACU (WAC)
196 ILST (MVC)
200 CBU (WAC)
226 SU (WAC)
228 SHSU (WAC)
250 UVU (WAC)
260 UTRGV (WAC)
264 UE (MVC)
267 Lamar (WAC)
278 GCU (WAC)

Also, going by NCAA Tournament wins by these 20 schools:

Since 2015
MVC 6
WAC 1

MVC had 2 teams finish top-15 in the postseason coaches poll (#7 Loyola-'18, #14 UNI-'15).

Good stuff, Woke. The WAC would not be on par with the MVC. But I think we would have 2 teams consistently in the top 100 of the NET rankings every year and a punchers chance at getting 2 bids into the NCAA if all the cards fell just right.

(10-22-2020 09:01 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 08:02 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Just letting you guys know what I hear... like last year when I said that WT and 4 SLC teams would receive in invite... well?

I haven't heard WT's name come up anywhere other than this board. Are you saying someone is telling you the WAC has FBS aspirations? What I was told was the WAC was looking at FCS. From what I have read, most, if not all, the football stadiums of these schools can't even hold 15k. The FBS minimum attendance is 15k every 2 years. That is a very large leap for the attendance numbers these schools currently have.

If Tarleton can fudge the numbers as bad as they did last football season to go FCS, anyone can fudge the numbers to go FBS. I went to every Tarleton home game last season and never once were there more than about 7-8,000 people in the seats and they reported over 10K for one game and over 11K for another. I don't believe for a second that 3-4,000 people purchased tickets and didn't come, so nullify that argument.

Heck, if they had played this fall, they would have averaged over 25K for the year!

If the door is open for FBS aspirations, the expansion would have to focus on the Texas schools and exclude SUU. ACU/SFA/SHSU/Lamar/Tarleton/NMSU can be built on for an FBS moveup, but SUU is a school with no FBS capability.

(10-22-2020 09:32 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the door is open for FBS aspirations, the expansion would have to focus on the Texas schools and exclude SUU. ACU/SFA/SHSU/Lamar/Tarleton/NMSU can be built on for an FBS moveup, but SUU is a school with no FBS capability.

If SUU has no FBS capability then how do any of the others you listed besides NMSU?

(10-22-2020 09:25 AM)NobleNewt Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 09:01 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 08:02 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Just letting you guys know what I hear... like last year when I said that WT and 4 SLC teams would receive in invite... well?

I haven't heard WT's name come up anywhere other than this board. Are you saying someone is telling you the WAC has FBS aspirations? What I was told was the WAC was looking at FCS. From what I have read, most, if not all, the football stadiums of these schools can't even hold 15k. The FBS minimum attendance is 15k every 2 years. That is a very large leap for the attendance numbers these schools currently have.

If Tarleton can fudge the numbers as bad as they did last football season to go FCS, anyone can fudge the numbers to go FBS. I went to every Tarleton home game last season and never once were there more than about 7-8,000 people in the seats and they reported over 10K for one game and over 11K for another. I don't believe for a second that 3-4,000 people purchased tickets and didn't come, so nullify that argument.

Heck, if they had played this fall, they would have averaged over 25K for the year!

You must be referring to the West Texas A&M game where we were up 51-0 at halftime. I can 100% vouch it was standing room only capacity when the game started. But for some unknown reason, there was a mass exodus of WTAMU fans at the half. That's probably when you decided to show up.

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/20...view_title