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WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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Post: #1681
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 06:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:45 PM)NMSUIndyAg Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:53 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Man, just when I think this thread has run it's course, someone comes up with a new angle to take us down a bunny trail. We now have new theories about schools leaving that haven't even been added yet. Can you imagine the coordination, back door deals, secrets, etc. needed to pull this off? So many moving parts. Even when we get great news, we have conspiracy theorists tear it all down. I am excited for the new schools. I am excited for NMSU. I am excited about the possibilities.


Agreed, PP. I'm excited. There are soooooooo many things that have to happen before anyone, or the league, is ready for FBS so in my eyes, no need to speculate. I admire the conviction the new members have, even if today it is with an eye to leave the WAC when they are ready. Who knows how those views may change over time.

EDIT: I am most interested in understanding what the divisions will end up being. If we go to divisions in Oly sports (can't see why we wouldn't), what division is NMSU going to end up in.

GO AGGIES!!!!!

I think that there is a bit of residual skepticism among NMSU fans because of what happened with TSU and UTSA who received their invitation to move up to FBS from the WAC then almost immediately jumped to the SB and CUSA. It is not unreasonable to be a little bit worried that there might be a repeat. For those on the cusp of entering the WAC, please don't be put off by those who voice that concern, and by all means do what you can to assure that your respective school is with us for the long haul. Let's give each other a little room for divergent thoughts.

Great post and spot on. We all need to remember that when it comes to conference realignment all schools act first and foremost in what they perceive to be their own best interest. The most stable conferences are those that succeed in bringing together members that not only share geography but also a common vision and objectives. The WAC is making a huge leap forward because the schools joining perceive that their interests currently align with those of the existing members. Hopefully they will all work together to improve the conference so much that none of them will be looking to leave three or four or five years from now.

Regardless of all that, I'm thrilled to see this expansion because the WAC was Hawaii's home for so many years and I'm still a WAC fan.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 07:44 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-13-2021 07:42 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #1682
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 07:19 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 06:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:45 PM)NMSUIndyAg Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:53 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Man, just when I think this thread has run it's course, someone comes up with a new angle to take us down a bunny trail. We now have new theories about schools leaving that haven't even been added yet. Can you imagine the coordination, back door deals, secrets, etc. needed to pull this off? So many moving parts. Even when we get great news, we have conspiracy theorists tear it all down. I am excited for the new schools. I am excited for NMSU. I am excited about the possibilities.


Agreed, PP. I'm excited. There are soooooooo many things that have to happen before anyone, or the league, is ready for FBS so in my eyes, no need to speculate. I admire the conviction the new members have, even if today it is with an eye to leave the WAC when they are ready. Who knows how those views may change over time.

EDIT: I am most interested in understanding what the divisions will end up being. If we go to divisions in Oly sports (can't see why we wouldn't), what division is NMSU going to end up in.

GO AGGIES!!!!!

I think that there is a bit of residual skepticism among NMSU fans because of what happened with TSU and UTSA who received their invitation to move up to FBS from the WAC then almost immediately jumped to the SB and CUSA. It is not unreasonable to be a little bit worried that there might be a repeat. For those on the cusp of entering the WAC, please don't be put off by those who voice that concern, and by all means do what you can to assure that your respective school is with us for the long haul. Let's give each other a little room for divergent thoughts.

The comments I took issue with went well beyond divergent thoughts about whether the Texas schools would jump ship. They were condescending jabs at the academic and athletic integrity of invited schools.

Well, my PM's were absolutely blowing up, telling me about this post, so...

Tarleton and ACU may actually stick around. No one else would ever take either one. Their locations, short D1 histories, low funding and academics make them a poor fit for most conferences. They are poor fits for the WAC as well, but having them as members is kind of like why we have Chicago State. We need the numbers, so literally nothing else matters...


Perhaps I didn't word it sensitively enough for the delicate flowers, looking for offense wherever it wasn't intended, but

Is ACU an academic fit for a conference full of public research universities? No. Is that a knock on their integrity? Of course not. Did I insinuate they have no integrity? No.

Is there a conference of small private similarily sized universities waiting to invite them? No.

Are they of the calibre of Rice or Tulane that can get into most conferences no matter how they stink it up on the field and court? No.

Are there conferences other than the SLC or WAC who will invite a school who has only been D1 a decade or so? No.

Location-- sure, some fine conferences in other parts of the country would probably be a great fit. Will they invite you? No. Its your location, as I predicated in the post quite clearly.

Are conferences who fund their athletics at 5-10X yours going to invite you? No.

Did I mention anything about athletic integrity? No. You're low level. Get over it. For those reasons, unless you go back to the SLC, you've got no better offers. Or do you? List them and prove me wrong. I dare you. Show where I was incorrect.

None of these are insults. They are facts. Stop being a professional victim and read the words I wrote, without inferring the offense you imagined I intended.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 08:00 PM by Todor.)
01-13-2021 07:55 PM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #1683
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 07:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:19 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 06:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:45 PM)NMSUIndyAg Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:53 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Man, just when I think this thread has run it's course, someone comes up with a new angle to take us down a bunny trail. We now have new theories about schools leaving that haven't even been added yet. Can you imagine the coordination, back door deals, secrets, etc. needed to pull this off? So many moving parts. Even when we get great news, we have conspiracy theorists tear it all down. I am excited for the new schools. I am excited for NMSU. I am excited about the possibilities.


Agreed, PP. I'm excited. There are soooooooo many things that have to happen before anyone, or the league, is ready for FBS so in my eyes, no need to speculate. I admire the conviction the new members have, even if today it is with an eye to leave the WAC when they are ready. Who knows how those views may change over time.

EDIT: I am most interested in understanding what the divisions will end up being. If we go to divisions in Oly sports (can't see why we wouldn't), what division is NMSU going to end up in.

GO AGGIES!!!!!

I think that there is a bit of residual skepticism among NMSU fans because of what happened with TSU and UTSA who received their invitation to move up to FBS from the WAC then almost immediately jumped to the SB and CUSA. It is not unreasonable to be a little bit worried that there might be a repeat. For those on the cusp of entering the WAC, please don't be put off by those who voice that concern, and by all means do what you can to assure that your respective school is with us for the long haul. Let's give each other a little room for divergent thoughts.

The comments I took issue with went well beyond divergent thoughts about whether the Texas schools would jump ship. They were condescending jabs at the academic and athletic integrity of invited schools.

Well, my PM's were absolutely blowing up, telling me about this post, so...

Tarleton and ACU may actually stick around. No one else would ever take either one. Their locations, short D1 histories, low funding and academics make them a poor fit for most conferences. They are poor fits for the WAC as well, but having them as members is kind of like why we have Chicago State. We need the numbers, so literally nothing else matters...


Perhaps I didn't word it sensitively enough for the delicate flowers, looking for offense wherever it wasn't intended, but

Is ACU an academic fit for a conference full of public research universities? No. Is that a knock on their integrity? Of course not. Did I insinuate they have no integrity? No.

Is there a conference of small private similarily sized universities waiting to invite them? No.

Are they of the calibre of Rice or Tulane that can get into most conferences no matter how they stink it up on the field and court? No.

Are there conferences other than the SLC or WAC who will invite a school who has only been D1 a decade or so? No.

Location-- sure, some fine conferences in other parts of the country would probably be a great fit. Will they invite you? No. Its your location, as I predicated in the post quite clearly.

Are conferences who fund their athletics at 5-10X yours going to invite you? No.

Did I mention anything about athletic integrity? No. You're low level. Get over it. For those reasons, unless you go back to the SLC, you've got no better offers. Or do you? List them and prove me wrong. I dare you. Show where I was incorrect.

None of these are insults. They are facts. Stop being a professional victim and read the words I wrote, without inferring the offense you imagined I intended.

I like it better when you have me on ignore.
01-13-2021 08:03 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #1684
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 08:03 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:19 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 06:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:45 PM)NMSUIndyAg Wrote:  Agreed, PP. I'm excited. There are soooooooo many things that have to happen before anyone, or the league, is ready for FBS so in my eyes, no need to speculate. I admire the conviction the new members have, even if today it is with an eye to leave the WAC when they are ready. Who knows how those views may change over time.

EDIT: I am most interested in understanding what the divisions will end up being. If we go to divisions in Oly sports (can't see why we wouldn't), what division is NMSU going to end up in.

GO AGGIES!!!!!

I think that there is a bit of residual skepticism among NMSU fans because of what happened with TSU and UTSA who received their invitation to move up to FBS from the WAC then almost immediately jumped to the SB and CUSA. It is not unreasonable to be a little bit worried that there might be a repeat. For those on the cusp of entering the WAC, please don't be put off by those who voice that concern, and by all means do what you can to assure that your respective school is with us for the long haul. Let's give each other a little room for divergent thoughts.

The comments I took issue with went well beyond divergent thoughts about whether the Texas schools would jump ship. They were condescending jabs at the academic and athletic integrity of invited schools.

Well, my PM's were absolutely blowing up, telling me about this post, so...

Tarleton and ACU may actually stick around. No one else would ever take either one. Their locations, short D1 histories, low funding and academics make them a poor fit for most conferences. They are poor fits for the WAC as well, but having them as members is kind of like why we have Chicago State. We need the numbers, so literally nothing else matters...


Perhaps I didn't word it sensitively enough for the delicate flowers, looking for offense wherever it wasn't intended, but

Is ACU an academic fit for a conference full of public research universities? No. Is that a knock on their integrity? Of course not. Did I insinuate they have no integrity? No.

Is there a conference of small private similarily sized universities waiting to invite them? No.

Are they of the calibre of Rice or Tulane that can get into most conferences no matter how they stink it up on the field and court? No.

Are there conferences other than the SLC or WAC who will invite a school who has only been D1 a decade or so? No.

Location-- sure, some fine conferences in other parts of the country would probably be a great fit. Will they invite you? No. Its your location, as I predicated in the post quite clearly.

Are conferences who fund their athletics at 5-10X yours going to invite you? No.

Did I mention anything about athletic integrity? No. You're low level. Get over it. For those reasons, unless you go back to the SLC, you've got no better offers. Or do you? List them and prove me wrong. I dare you. Show where I was incorrect.

None of these are insults. They are facts. Stop being a professional victim and read the words I wrote, without inferring the offense you imagined I intended.

I like it better when you have me on ignore.

I would too, if I were you lol. But if you post untrue things about what I said, people let me know and I respond. Still waiting on that list of conferences that are interested in you.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 08:18 PM by Todor.)
01-13-2021 08:14 PM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #1685
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
I see lots are still kicking Chicago State out which is cool. Matt Brown indicated CSU was going to announce they were leaving “within a few days.” That was early last week. Someone else said it’d be before the announcement on the 14th. Well, it’s getting kind of late here on the 13th. I’m sure it’s in the WAC’s and CSU’s best interest to end their relationship at some point just to make things more regional— but until there’s been an announcement (which who knows .. it could happen tomorrow or 9 months from now), CSU is still around to give some people something to complain about. 04-cheers

Regardless, happy for the WAC and its survival skills the past 8 years or so. Hope to be able to have at least a year to play some WAC games with the new additions.
01-13-2021 08:22 PM
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TexanFan Online
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Post: #1686
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
As a newbie, one very clear issue is there are a lot of hurt feelings with some of the schools on this board. Lots of negativity which seems to be justifiable based on the history of the schools and the conference. Some of us newbies are learning the history and may not understand all of the wounds and scars invested here.

But I am excited for all of the current and future schools in the WAC. I don’t know what the future holds but I do know we the WAC will be getting better tomorrow and next year when SUU joins.
01-13-2021 09:00 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #1687
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 09:00 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As a newbie, one very clear issue is there are a lot of hurt feelings with some of the schools on this board. Lots of negativity which seems to be justifiable based on the history of the schools and the conference. Some of us newbies are learning the history and may not understand all of the wounds and scars invested here.

But I am excited for all of the current and future schools in the WAC. I don’t know what the future holds but I do know we the WAC will be getting better tomorrow and next year when SUU joins.

I don’t know what you mean by hurt feelings. This board is very civil most of the time. Does NMSU wish they weren’t in the WAC? Probably. SU? Probably. And by that I mean somewhere else; not that the WAC is beneath either schools. All the other schools are very happy to be here or at least should be.
01-13-2021 09:13 PM
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Post: #1688
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
Just keep scrolling when you see a Todor post
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 10:30 PM by wisdomgymrat.)
01-13-2021 10:30 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #1689
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 10:30 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Just keep scrolling when you see a Todor post

Better yet , figure out how to use the ignore button and you'll never have to see any of my posts again.

Whoever hasn't figured out how to use it by now, send me a PM and I'll walk you thru it. I know exactly how useful it can be.
01-13-2021 11:05 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #1690
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(10-03-2020 06:15 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 02:48 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 02:36 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 01:52 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 10:42 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  I've pretty much settled on this: it's either SUU or WTAMU, and eventually will be both. An SUU move to the WAC could/should entice NAU, and maybe even NOCO to come on board. And WT leaving to join Tarleton in the WAC will certainly kick off a Lone Star Conference exodus of Biblical proportion. But, why would BSC teams leave for the WAC, you ask?
It behooves the BSC to have an FCS conference in the WAC's re-evolving Southwest footprint. OOC scheduling becomes less of a hassle and the BSC becomes more manageable at 10 teams. BSC Commish may not be as oppossed to shedding a few schools as he is letting on.
And why would WTAMU leave the LSC? Well, the writing has been on the wall ever since the LSC decided to become an 18-member Heartland Conference 2.0
Powerhouse D2 programs like WTAMU (and others still in the LSC) really should not be in the same league as Eastern and Western NM, or a Oklahoma Christian College, for that matter.
When WT leaves to join Tarleton in the WAC, Commish Hurd will have Angelo, MSU, UTPB, Kingsville and Commerce beating down his door to be let in. I also believe a few Southland schools will be wanting a piece of that action, i.e. UIW and ACU, for starters.
You see, just one or two bold moves, and then all of the sudden, the WAC can be a SELECTIVE conference again, and can build an FCS/FBS league of its choosing.

Everyone's back together, plus NMSU, Dixie State and maybe a couple of others. I like it.

So the conference becomes bloated. Texas schools start voting in a block and its a repeat to the creation of the Mountain West. I've seen this movie.

What schools would you choose?

I'd cap the conference at 12 schools and have a separate conference for FCS football like MVC.

I can also see if all those schools were to jump to D1/FCS, after completing the move up in the WAC, I can easily see them along with UTRGV breaking off from the WAC and forming their own conference.


This. 3 months ago.
01-13-2021 11:31 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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Post: #1691
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 11:31 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 06:15 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 02:48 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 02:36 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(10-03-2020 01:52 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  Everyone's back together, plus NMSU, Dixie State and maybe a couple of others. I like it.

So the conference becomes bloated. Texas schools start voting in a block and its a repeat to the creation of the Mountain West. I've seen this movie.

What schools would you choose?

I'd cap the conference at 12 schools and have a separate conference for FCS football like MVC.

I can also see if all those schools were to jump to D1/FCS, after completing the move up in the WAC, I can easily see them along with UTRGV breaking off from the WAC and forming their own conference.


This. 3 months ago.

A decade ago the NCAA changed the D1 conference definition rules to impose an 8-year waiting period for basketball auto bids on any newly formed D1 conference.

The rule change has proven to be an effective deterrent to new D1 conference creation. Since its enactment the only new D1 conference has been the AAC, which received a special exemption from the rule as part of the deal that broke up the old Big East.

Would such an exemption be granted in the event of a future WAC break up? Maybe but I doubt it. The Big East was a power conference in the process of being ushered out of the ranks of power conferences which helped it secure special consideration. The WAC is not a power conference and it doesn't work to the advantage of any existing D1 conferences to make it easy for the WAC to split.

Assuming no special consideration I find it hard to imagine that the new WAC will be at risk of half or more of its members leaving in a few years to form a new conference of their own. There will be defections of course but those will be to existing D1 conferences and so the number is likely to be too small to put the WAC in real distress.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2021 05:26 AM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-14-2021 05:16 AM
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Post: #1692
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-13-2021 10:30 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Just keep scrolling when you see a Todor post

Lesson learned.
01-14-2021 06:07 AM
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Post: #1693
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)

01-14-2021 10:29 AM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #1694
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-14-2021 10:29 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

That is a genuine smack-upside-the-head surprise if true.

Not just football, but FCS.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2021 10:33 AM by edinburger.)
01-14-2021 10:31 AM
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RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)

01-14-2021 10:33 AM
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Post: #1696
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
01-14-2021 10:42 AM
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Post: #1697
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-14-2021 10:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
Makes sense...I'm guessing they would play at the Toros soccer stadium, which is actually very nice
01-14-2021 11:01 AM
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Post: #1698
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
Who will be #14???

West Texas A&M is the most logical
01-14-2021 11:03 AM
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Post: #1699
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-14-2021 10:42 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  https://twitter.com/CoachCarthel/status/...0288427009

That's my boy! 04-cheers
01-14-2021 11:17 AM
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RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(01-14-2021 11:03 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Who will be #14???

West Texas A&M is the most logical

Here we go. Can we all agree to not talk about new, new teams today? Just for one day? Can we let the news settle about the TX4, SUU and UTRGV adding FB? Isn't that enough to discuss for today? Is that too much to ask?
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2021 11:24 AM by PojoaquePosse.)
01-14-2021 11:23 AM
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