(10-04-2020 12:14 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:03 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 11:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I would welcome any western school to join the WAC but Southern Utah doesn't make sense to me. Why would Southern Utah want to pull its' football program out of the Big Sky to be an FCS independent in the WAC? They would lose their FCS Auto-bid. And, it's doubtful the Big Sky would allow SUU remain as a football-only member. But heck, I was baffled when UMKC left the Summit to join the WAC a few years back; only to come to their senses and return to the Summit.

Times were different back then. The WAC paid their exit & entrance fees. Told them they could host the conference tournament too. Markets were a driving force back then and the WAC had “better” ones. UMKC also thought they could walk in and compete in a “weaker” league.

On the surface, I too find SUU leaving the Big Sky for the WAC a bit strange. Maybe something is happening behind the scenes. I personally hope it’s true because “realignment czar” David St didn’t predict it and he obviously knows nothing. Just makes close, easy, geographical guesses and hopes they stick.

So David St, after picking every school to go every where, didn't pick this? Must say I'm surprised.

I’m sure he’ll say he predicted it in another post 10 years ago. He saw this coming like Nostradamus.

(10-04-2020 12:14 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:03 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 11:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I would welcome any western school to join the WAC but Southern Utah doesn't make sense to me. Why would Southern Utah want to pull its' football program out of the Big Sky to be an FCS independent in the WAC? They would lose their FCS Auto-bid. And, it's doubtful the Big Sky would allow SUU remain as a football-only member. But heck, I was baffled when UMKC left the Summit to join the WAC a few years back; only to come to their senses and return to the Summit.

Times were different back then. The WAC paid their exit & entrance fees. Told them they could host the conference tournament too. Markets were a driving force back then and the WAC had “better” ones. UMKC also thought they could walk in and compete in a “weaker” league.

On the surface, I too find SUU leaving the Big Sky for the WAC a bit strange. Maybe something is happening behind the scenes. I personally hope it’s true because “realignment czar” David St didn’t predict it and he obviously knows nothing. Just makes close, easy, geographical guesses and hopes they stick.

So David St, after picking every school to go every where, didn't pick this? Must say I'm surprised.

Going to the WAC is a downgrade. This is why there is no truth in the rumors that SUU is going to the WAC. West Texas A&M right now is the most sense since they are really unhappy with the D2 leadership. There is a strong sense that they want to move to FBS. They are not that far from New Mexico State. You do not need a third Utah school.

(10-04-2020 12:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:14 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:03 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 11:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I would welcome any western school to join the WAC but Southern Utah doesn't make sense to me. Why would Southern Utah want to pull its' football program out of the Big Sky to be an FCS independent in the WAC? They would lose their FCS Auto-bid. And, it's doubtful the Big Sky would allow SUU remain as a football-only member. But heck, I was baffled when UMKC left the Summit to join the WAC a few years back; only to come to their senses and return to the Summit.

Times were different back then. The WAC paid their exit & entrance fees. Told them they could host the conference tournament too. Markets were a driving force back then and the WAC had “better” ones. UMKC also thought they could walk in and compete in a “weaker” league.

On the surface, I too find SUU leaving the Big Sky for the WAC a bit strange. Maybe something is happening behind the scenes. I personally hope it’s true because “realignment czar” David St didn’t predict it and he obviously knows nothing. Just makes close, easy, geographical guesses and hopes they stick.

So David St, after picking every school to go every where, didn't pick this? Must say I'm surprised.

Going to the WAC is a downgrade. This is why there is no truth in the rumors that SUU is going to the WAC. West Texas A&M right now is the most sense since they are really unhappy with the D2 leadership. There is a strong sense that they want to move to FBS. They are not that far from New Mexico State. You do not need a third Utah school.

Why can't it be both?

(10-04-2020 12:41 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:14 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:03 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 11:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I would welcome any western school to join the WAC but Southern Utah doesn't make sense to me. Why would Southern Utah want to pull its' football program out of the Big Sky to be an FCS independent in the WAC? They would lose their FCS Auto-bid. And, it's doubtful the Big Sky would allow SUU remain as a football-only member. But heck, I was baffled when UMKC left the Summit to join the WAC a few years back; only to come to their senses and return to the Summit.

Times were different back then. The WAC paid their exit & entrance fees. Told them they could host the conference tournament too. Markets were a driving force back then and the WAC had “better” ones. UMKC also thought they could walk in and compete in a “weaker” league.

On the surface, I too find SUU leaving the Big Sky for the WAC a bit strange. Maybe something is happening behind the scenes. I personally hope it’s true because “realignment czar” David St didn’t predict it and he obviously knows nothing. Just makes close, easy, geographical guesses and hopes they stick.

So David St, after picking every school to go every where, didn't pick this? Must say I'm surprised.

I’m sure he’ll say he predicted it in another post 10 years ago. He saw this coming like Nostradamus.

Probably. I predict people still won't take his alleged prediction seriously.

(10-04-2020 12:41 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:14 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 12:03 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 11:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I would welcome any western school to join the WAC but Southern Utah doesn't make sense to me. Why would Southern Utah want to pull its' football program out of the Big Sky to be an FCS independent in the WAC? They would lose their FCS Auto-bid. And, it's doubtful the Big Sky would allow SUU remain as a football-only member. But heck, I was baffled when UMKC left the Summit to join the WAC a few years back; only to come to their senses and return to the Summit.

Times were different back then. The WAC paid their exit & entrance fees. Told them they could host the conference tournament too. Markets were a driving force back then and the WAC had “better” ones. UMKC also thought they could walk in and compete in a “weaker” league.

On the surface, I too find SUU leaving the Big Sky for the WAC a bit strange. Maybe something is happening behind the scenes. I personally hope it’s true because “realignment czar” David St didn’t predict it and he obviously knows nothing. Just makes close, easy, geographical guesses and hopes they stick.

So David St, after picking every school to go every where, didn't pick this? Must say I'm surprised.

I’m sure he’ll say he predicted it in another post 10 years ago. He saw this coming like Nostradamus.

He can be all over the map (literally) but I think his reasoning is sound on this one. I’d love to be wrong though since pulling in a current FCS school from any D1 conference would be huge for the WAC.

My thoughts are that it’s WTAMU.

At this point, it’s too risky for SUU to switch sides. They can always schedule Dixie St and UVU as OOC opponents.

The big question for the Big Sky commissioner is do you add Dixie St to potentially neuter the potential of a new FCS conference in your backyard or do you try to work with the FCS hopefuls to attain 2 autobids for western teams?

If you’re a program like NAU, SUU, or Sac St do you weigh your options and consider switching things up rather than remain in a conference dominated by the Montana’s?

(10-04-2020 05:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My thoughts are that it’s WTAMU.

At this point, it’s too risky for SUU to switch sides. They can always schedule Dixie St and UVU as OOC opponents.

The big question for the Big Sky commissioner is do you add Dixie St to potentially neuter the potential of a new FCS conference in your backyard or do you try to work with the FCS hopefuls to attain 2 autobids for western teams?

If you’re a program like NAU, SUU, or Sac St do you weigh your options and consider switching things up rather than remain in a conference dominated by the Montana’s?

What does a SUU for Dixie State swap accomplish? I just don't see it.

I'll say it again, for anyone considering switching things up - Portland State is the key, given their location.

Interesting turn of events here. I'm surprised a BSC member is considering leaving, but the covid fallout has completely flipped the script on realignment so I guess anything is possible.

Portland State is interesting considering FB got booted from the MLS stadium and play at what is essentially a rec center. If they drop FB (no idea if its on the chopping block) they would make sense, although I think they would have to add sports to be D1 compliant if FB goes (MSoc and/or baseball?). If they did that those sports would be in the same facility debacle that FB is currently in.

If SUU (or someone else in the BSC) goes to the WAC, I don't think the BSC would "counter raid" the WAC. There is just no need for it from the BSC perspective other than saving face, and I think the BSC members (and athletic departments around the nation) have more pressing issues on their hands.

I'd love for the BSC to have UNC bolt elsewhere, but considering they basically gave up on baseball and moved it to the Summit I think that option is out.

I strongly doubt a long time BSC member considers leaving, so that rules out NAU and Weber.

The FB only members don't make sense either as that would basically put them in the same situation they were before joining the BSC for FB only.

Lastly I don't think Sac would consider it. I do think we would be open to leave the BSC if the situation is right, but not sure the WAC is much different than the BSC from a financial standpoint. I do want the WAC to have a solid FB scheduling alliance so we have options to park FB is something does come up for us.

Interesting times.

I still feel "if" a BSC member were to jump ship to the WAC, it would be Idaho. And, if Idaho were to return to the WAC, they would try to follow in the same foot steps as NMSU by becoming an FBS independent. Just my opinion. Otherwise, there is no reason for a solidly FCS program in the Big Sky to join a conference which doesn't sponsor any level of football; the WAC. That being said, the obvious addition to the WAC seem to be West Texas A&M.

I think it is not a Cal-State or UC school because of the travel issues to Texas.
I think it is not SUU or NAU due to conference football to independent football. Now if the WAC was at 4 or 5 FCS schools, these two might bite, but not now.
I think that it is not UIW or ACU for the same reason above.
I think that it could be a Texas public school. That plays football, and has taken a long hard look. WTA&M seems the most likely.
I think that other Texas public schools might follow along in a few season, but there can only be so many DII call-ups at a time.

I think that all of this discussion, while slightly different than in the past, it trying to created discussion where there really is not any. We will know in a few more days/weeks.

Some very interesting points being made all around. A few I’ll add, with even more questions—

Is Portland State under any pressure from the Big Sky (even informally) because of their football facilities?

Has PSU come to mind for some because it would a connection to/travel partner for Seattle in basketball, because it’s in the WAC footprint, or because Portland is another major city the WAC will then be represented in?

Regarding No Colorado and their baseball. I don’t think them having recently affiliated with the Summit would be a factor at all. If they saw a chance to move all sports for whatever reason they would simply undo that deal and carry on. I think the WAC would be a good home for them, but I have idea how they feel.

Idaho is a name that didn’t come to my mind until NMSUPISTOLPETE mentioned it above, but that is an intriguing thought. They would also be a great travel partner for Seattle incidentally. For football, maybe alums don’t like the new FCS downgrade? Maybe if the WAC does have a legit shot at being back in the FBS at some point and Idaho wants back in FBS, the WAC could say something like, Hey, we are both working to get back to FBS. Move your FCS program back to the WAC while you announce your intentions and that will be the assurance X, Y and Z schools need to join the WAC while we piece this all together. Just a scenario playing in my mind. But it’s the WAC talking FBS possibilities, not just my imagination. But Idaho did want FBS and didn’t want to be an Indy, helping the WAC re establish it would be just about their only realistic option.

Idaho is also opening a new $50+ million dollar basketball arena that looks like it’s going to be a real one of a kind and simply stellar home court. Could they also be counting on an resurgence in their basketball situation coming up and would rather be able to recruit and compete in the clearly superior WAC v BSC?

I know this add is supposed to be football related, but basketball is still a huge thing for schools. For NAU and SUU, their proximity to Vegas and the WAC Tourney—its at least something that would count in the Advantage WAC column. BSC conference tourney has traditionally just been on campuses, then for some reason in Reno for a few years, now 3 years in Boise, and after that cycle TBD. Since Vegas has become such a hub with 4 conference tourneys there, it would sting a little for schools so close to have their low profile, poorly attended tourney and far away to boot. Definitely not a major factor but highlights the point that are right in the middle of the WAC and outliers in the BSC.

I know I made numerous basketball points, but unless we were talking a football only affiliate (which it doesn’t sound like we are) the conference would have to be a fit in multiple levels and basketball will always be a major component.

I’ve written another “book” here. Thanks for reading. This is certainly a fun week.

(10-04-2020 11:25 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(10-04-2020 05:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My thoughts are that it’s WTAMU.

At this point, it’s too risky for SUU to switch sides. They can always schedule Dixie St and UVU as OOC opponents.

The big question for the Big Sky commissioner is do you add Dixie St to potentially neuter the potential of a new FCS conference in your backyard or do you try to work with the FCS hopefuls to attain 2 autobids for western teams?

If you’re a program like NAU, SUU, or Sac St do you weigh your options and consider switching things up rather than remain in a conference dominated by the Montana’s?

What does a SUU for Dixie State swap accomplish? I just don't see it.

I'll say it again, for anyone considering switching things up - Portland State is the key, given their location.

I’m not advocating a swap. What I’m getting at is that if the Big Sky says NIMBY on another western FCS conference they could just add Dixie St and that would kill WAC FCS, or at least shift it to a Texas footprint.

You make a good point about the new school potentially being a Big Sky school looking to drop football. Portland St football does seem to be on shaky ground.

The Big Sky has no interest in Dixie State at the moment. They would have taken them from the get go.

(10-04-2020 03:09 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  He can be all over the map (literally) but I think his reasoning is sound on this one. I’d love to be wrong though since pulling in a current FCS school from any D1 conference would be huge for the WAC.

No, his reasoning is not sound. David St: "Going to the WAC is a downgrade. This is why there is no truth in the rumors that SUU is going to the WAC." That is not a sound argument and it is not accurate. Going to the WAC for Olympic sports is an easy decision. It is a better regional fit and it is a better Olympic sports league. They could bring back baseball, which was dropped in 2012.

Leaving Big Sky football is the difficult decision. The Big Sky is a football conference that also plays basketball. It is a good FCS football conference, but with 13 teams it has gotten to be too big. If they are leaving the Big Sky, they are probably convinced that the WAC is close to putting together an FCS football conference.

From a recruiting standpoint, both for students and athletes, the WAC is a better place for SUU. For football and basketball, they are recruiting in Southern California, the Las Vegas area and the Phoenix area for out-of-state athletes and in 23% of their students are out-of-state, with the majority of those coming from the Las Vegas area and Southern California. On the SUU football roster, they have 28 players from California and none from Texas. Playing football in Texas might open up some recruiting opportunities in that talent rich area of the country. Playing in Montana and Idaho does not do much for them.

(10-03-2020 10:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 10:42 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  I've pretty much settled on this: it's either SUU or WTAMU, and eventually will be both. An SUU move to the WAC could/should entice NAU, and maybe even NOCO to come on board. And WT leaving to join Tarleton in the WAC will certainly kick off a Lone Star Conference exodus of Biblical proportion. But, why would BSC teams leave for the WAC, you ask?
It behooves the BSC to have an FCS conference in the WAC's re-evolving Southwest footprint. OOC scheduling becomes less of a hassle and the BSC becomes more manageable at 10 teams. BSC Commish may not be as oppossed to shedding a few schools as he is letting on.
And why would WTAMU leave the LSC? Well, the writing has been on the wall ever since the LSC decided to become an 18-member Heartland Conference 2.0
Powerhouse D2 programs like WTAMU (and others still in the LSC) really should not be in the same league as Eastern and Western NM, or a Oklahoma Christian College, for that matter.
When WT leaves to join Tarleton in the WAC, Commish Hurd will have Angelo, MSU, UTPB, Kingsville and Commerce beating down his door to be let in. I also believe a few Southland schools will be wanting a piece of that action, i.e. UIW and ACU, for starters.
You see, just one or two bold moves, and then all of the sudden, the WAC can be a SELECTIVE conference again, and can build an FCS/FBS league of its choosing.

Big Sky commish was talking about expanding the Big Sky. Dixie State, Cal. Poly and UC-Davis in as full members would be a start.

No the Big Sky is not talking about expanding. And if it did, it wouldn't be for Dixie State. We'd take UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly, but there is no reason for them to leave the Big West.

(10-03-2020 11:50 AM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 11:36 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 11:25 AM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 11:21 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 11:02 AM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  Where could they possibly expand? They're bloated as a conference as is. Link for that?

Yes, believe it or not, BSC Commish is on record saying he wants to expand to 14 teams, rather than retract. Just about every coach in the conference disagrees. Good read, gives insight from both perspectives:

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sp...60684.html

He's also said they have no plans at this time.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.college-s...own/%3famp

Of course he did.

“As long as we continue to grow our product, as long as we continue to deliver good things for our schools and increase income and that type of thing, I think there’s growth there that helps keep the conference together and keeps it strong.”

Sounds like he's only interested if it benefits the conference monetarily not growth for the sake of growth. I am interested in how a 14 team football and 12 other sports conference would be a good idea. You'd set yourself back on scheduling and risk schools defecting to smaller conferences for better odds at playoffs and larger slice of the pie.

Basically if a home run school approached the Big Sky they would consider it. But they aren't going to expand JUST to expand.

(10-05-2020 04:01 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  I think it is not a Cal-State or UC school because of the travel issues to Texas.
I think it is not SUU or NAU due to conference football to independent football. Now if the WAC was at 4 or 5 FCS schools, these two might bite, but not now.
I think that it is not UIW or ACU for the same reason above.
I think that it could be a Texas public school. That plays football, and has taken a long hard look. WTA&M seems the most likely.
I think that other Texas public schools might follow along in a few season, but there can only be so many DII call-ups at a time.

I think that all of this discussion, while slightly different than in the past, it trying to created discussion where there really is not any. We will know in a few more days/weeks.

I think, err, I know David Street is a tool and knows nothing.
I think he should go away.
I think no one cares about anything he says and he is always wrong.
I think the mods should permanently ban him from this site.

(10-05-2020 05:33 AM)Todor Wrote:  Some very interesting points being made all around. A few I’ll add, with even more questions—

Is Portland State under any pressure from the Big Sky (even informally) because of their football facilities?

Has PSU come to mind for some because it would a connection to/travel partner for Seattle in basketball, because it’s in the WAC footprint, or because Portland is another major city the WAC will then be represented in?

Regarding No Colorado and their baseball. I don’t think them having recently affiliated with the Summit would be a factor at all. If they saw a chance to move all sports for whatever reason they would simply undo that deal and carry on. I think the WAC would be a good home for them, but I have idea how they feel.

Idaho is a name that didn’t come to my mind until NMSUPISTOLPETE mentioned it above, but that is an intriguing thought. They would also be a great travel partner for Seattle incidentally. For football, maybe alums don’t like the new FCS downgrade? Maybe if the WAC does have a legit shot at being back in the FBS at some point and Idaho wants back in FBS, the WAC could say something like, Hey, we are both working to get back to FBS. Move your FCS program back to the WAC while you announce your intentions and that will be the assurance X, Y and Z schools need to join the WAC while we piece this all together. Just a scenario playing in my mind. But it’s the WAC talking FBS possibilities, not just my imagination. But Idaho did want FBS and didn’t want to be an Indy, helping the WAC re establish it would be just about their only realistic option.

Idaho is also opening a new $50+ million dollar basketball arena that looks like it’s going to be a real one of a kind and simply stellar home court. Could they also be counting on an resurgence in their basketball situation coming up and would rather be able to recruit and compete in the clearly superior WAC v BSC?

I know this add is supposed to be football related, but basketball is still a huge thing for schools. For NAU and SUU, their proximity to Vegas and the WAC Tourney—its at least something that would count in the Advantage WAC column. BSC conference tourney has traditionally just been on campuses, then for some reason in Reno for a few years, now 3 years in Boise, and after that cycle TBD. Since Vegas has become such a hub with 4 conference tourneys there, it would sting a little for schools so close to have their low profile, poorly attended tourney and far away to boot. Definitely not a major factor but highlights the point that are right in the middle of the WAC and outliers in the BSC.

I know I made numerous basketball points, but unless we were talking a football only affiliate (which it doesn’t sound like we are) the conference would have to be a fit in multiple levels and basketball will always be a major component.

I’ve written another “book” here. Thanks for reading. This is certainly a fun week.

Good post, but the highlighted contradicts your points. Why would Idaho want to move to the WAC to be in a conference tourney that is farther from their alumni base? The BSCT in Boise is probably the most appealing thing for Idaho..well that and the handful of bus trips for their BSC sports compared to nothing but flights in the WAC. FBS is gone for good for Idaho, they've knowingly made that decision when they went to the BSC.

(10-05-2020 10:09 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  The Big Sky has no interest in Dixie State at the moment. They would have taken them from the get go.

Agreed.

(10-05-2020 10:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 10:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 10:42 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  I've pretty much settled on this: it's either SUU or WTAMU, and eventually will be both. An SUU move to the WAC could/should entice NAU, and maybe even NOCO to come on board. And WT leaving to join Tarleton in the WAC will certainly kick off a Lone Star Conference exodus of Biblical proportion. But, why would BSC teams leave for the WAC, you ask?
It behooves the BSC to have an FCS conference in the WAC's re-evolving Southwest footprint. OOC scheduling becomes less of a hassle and the BSC becomes more manageable at 10 teams. BSC Commish may not be as oppossed to shedding a few schools as he is letting on.
And why would WTAMU leave the LSC? Well, the writing has been on the wall ever since the LSC decided to become an 18-member Heartland Conference 2.0
Powerhouse D2 programs like WTAMU (and others still in the LSC) really should not be in the same league as Eastern and Western NM, or a Oklahoma Christian College, for that matter.
When WT leaves to join Tarleton in the WAC, Commish Hurd will have Angelo, MSU, UTPB, Kingsville and Commerce beating down his door to be let in. I also believe a few Southland schools will be wanting a piece of that action, i.e. UIW and ACU, for starters.
You see, just one or two bold moves, and then all of the sudden, the WAC can be a SELECTIVE conference again, and can build an FCS/FBS league of its choosing.

Big Sky commish was talking about expanding the Big Sky. Dixie State, Cal. Poly and UC-Davis in as full members would be a start.

No the Big Sky is not talking about expanding. And if it did, it wouldn't be for Dixie State. We'd take UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly, but there is no reason for them to leave the Big West.

BSC should boot the FB-only members to the WAC football conference.