(10-23-2020 12:26 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:37 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 04:10 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 11:53 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  https://twitter.com/CalebKTRE/status/131...4045545473

Key word in that tweet is "formal invite". That can be seen as confirmation that there are discussions happening from both sides. It does not say an information invite was received and was rejected.

From years on this board I have learned that formal invites only come if an invite is guaranteed to be accepted.

Yep, and I am having a hard time figuring this one. An invite to ACU I get. An invite to Lamar, SFA, and SHSU, I don't get. SFA is 130 miles from George Bush International, along a two lane highway going through national forests. Lamar is 80 miles from George Bush International along I-10 and SHSU is 65 miles north, where the highlight is the state prison. Southeast Texas is a long way to travel to play conference Olympic sports contests and these schools don't really help make the WAC a two-bid league.

If these schools are really considering leaving the SLC, it is not about FBS football. Sure, Jeff Hurd could tangle the promise that the WAC could exercise their "grandfather clause" for FBS football at some point down the road. But that is a long-shot. No, these three schools must have a concern about something going on in the SLC. It could be about the five Louisiana schools and Central Arkansas, schools that were struggling financially before the Covid-19 pandemic hit. Or as someone mentioned, they have issues with Houston Baptist and UIW. I think FCS football is going to happen for the WAC and FBS football is a pipe dream. But I will really be surprised if these three southeast Texas schools join the WAC.

For Lamar, depending on game scheduling, Jack Brooks Regional airport could be used. The airport is 7 miles from campus. There are two daily scheduled flights (early morning and mid-afternoon) to and from D-FW. D-FW has connections to anywhere in the WAC. The planes are the typical short flight commuter bizjets (Embraer ERJ-140 and ERJ-145) with 44 or 50 seats. Link - Embraer ERJ135/ERJ140/ERJ145 With the exception of football, that would handle most sports. The airport could handle larger planes (except the heavies) for charters. Eastern Airlines flew Boeing 727's daily to and from New York City in the 60's and 70's, mainly to accommodate executives with the local refineries and chemical plants . Link - Boeing 727 The two Houston airports are also still available for flight flexibility.

The St. George connections are horrible from Jack Brooks, but not too bad from either of the Houston airports. The others have one connecting flight at D-FW. With divisional play, it gets better if all the mentioned Texas teams were to make the jump.

(10-23-2020 12:17 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:39 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 09:09 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 04:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think the hopeful addition of SFA and Sam Houston State would bring immediate respectability to the WAC in basketball; along with the recent success of Abilene Christian and past success of Lamar. An addition like this would put the WAC on par with the Missouri Valley.

This isn't true.

If you remove Chicago St (NMSU/GCU/UTRGV/UVU/CBU/SU + SFA/ACU/SHSU/Lamar), the WAC still comes out far behind the Missouri Valley.

8 of the top 10 NET hail from the MVC while the MVC's median ranking (129) outpaces the WAC's median ranking (227) by nearly 100 spots.

48 UNI (MVC)
77 SFA (WAC)
98 LUC (MVC)
102 BU (MVC)
104 NMSU (WAC)
105 INST (MVC)
119 MOST (MVC)
138 VU (MVC)
156 DU (MVC)
162 SIU (MVC)
194 ACU (WAC)
196 ILST (MVC)
200 CBU (WAC)
226 SU (WAC)
228 SHSU (WAC)
250 UVU (WAC)
260 UTRGV (WAC)
264 UE (MVC)
267 Lamar (WAC)
278 GCU (WAC)

Also, going by NCAA Tournament wins by these 20 schools:

Since 2015
MVC 6
WAC 1

MVC had 2 teams finish top-15 in the postseason coaches poll (#7 Loyola-'18, #14 UNI-'15).

These are numbers from 2019-2020, a bad year for the WAC and a season that was cut-short by Covid-19. The three previous seasons from the WAC were much better. The MVC got four tournament wins from Loyola of Chicago in that magical post-season run of 2017-2018. The MVC is a good basketball conference, but they have become a one-bid conference. Losing Creighton and Wichita State has turned them into a one-bid conference.

The MVC is a better conference from top to bottom because they have been around longer. The WAC is in the developmental stage of their conference. NMSU is the basketball power in the conference, but eventually GCU, CBU, Seattle, UVU and UTRGV will fully develop their programs and hopefully the D2 move-up schools will develop as well.

The WAC has schools with healthy basketball budgets, good facilities and good markets. The WAC just needs stability to get to where the MVC has been and is. But without the post-season tournaments, the season was incomplete and 2019-2020 season is not a good reference point.

MVC isn't better because it's "been around longer". If that was the case, a dozen other conferences who've been around a long time would be at the MVC's level. And leagues don't suddenly get better because they're in markets -- the Horizon is littered in bigger markets and they've plummeted in the rankings.

The MVC is where it's at because of its success in the NCAA Tournament and fan support -- top to bottom.

6 of the 10 MVC schools have advanced to the Sweet 16 since 1998.
MVC has won 50% of its NCAA Tournament games in the last 15 years (and this doesn't count WSU/CU).
MVC ranks 10th in both average attendance and average conference tournament attendance.

The WAC has a long way to go to reach that level -- it'll take much more than stability.

NMSU and GCU could slide with ease into the top of the MVC in budget, fan support, etc. Where the separation comes is the depth of the two leagues.

The point that the 2019-20 isn't a good reference point because of the pandemic cannot be serious. The entire regular season was completed. You don't want it to be used as a reference point because you don't like the data it spits out.

I don’t think one can come to a conclusion of which league is better based on any one season. If you go back for the lady 5 or 6 years I think you’ll get a better idea of which conference is actually better in recent years.

At the end of the day, we are splitting hairs looking at history. Both leagues are one-bid leagues as they are currently constructed. The question I have is, if the schools listed played in the WAC, what would that do to their own .net rankings and thus, the league as a whole? I am with most here who don’t believe it would raise us to two bid status right away, but does it help prepare that one bid so we have a realistic shot at winning a game or two? From there, you never know where the league could go.

GO AGGIES!!!!!

Good point. MVC ranked 8th, 14th, & 11th after losing WSU. WAC ranked 15th, 16th, & 25th.

If the WAC added/subtracted the schools people are speculating, these were the NET rankings last year:
77 SFA (WAC)
104 NMSU (WAC)
194 ACU (WAC)
200 CBU (WAC)
226 SU (WAC)
228 SHSU (WAC)
250 UVU (WAC)
260 UTRGV (WAC)
267 Lamar (WAC)
278 GCU (WAC)
NA Dixie (WAC)
NA Tarleton (WAC)

I’d expect GCU under Bryce Drew to join NMSU/SFA in the top-3 in that speculated conference. The trick would be getting everyone else inside the top ~200 and staying there. Depth is what the WAC needs improvement in to rise up the conference rankings.

Did anyone read the Tarleton State schedule release? Last paragraph “ The Texans will be competing as an FCS Independent program in the spring of 2021 while Tarleton State University transitions into the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), which does not sponsor football at this time.”

Seem weird to anyone?

https://tarletonsports.com/news/2020/10/...edule.aspx

(10-23-2020 03:35 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Did anyone read the Tarleton State schedule release? Last paragraph “ The Texans will be competing as an FCS Independent program in the spring of 2021 while Tarleton State University transitions into the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), which does not sponsor football at this time.”

Seem weird to anyone?

https://tarletonsports.com/news/2020/10/...edule.aspx

No.

(10-23-2020 03:35 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Did anyone read the Tarleton State schedule release? Last paragraph “ The Texans will be competing as an FCS Independent program in the spring of 2021 while Tarleton State University transitions into the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), which does not sponsor football at this time.”

Seem weird to anyone?

https://tarletonsports.com/news/2020/10/...edule.aspx

Not really. If the writer can see the future however, I have some questions about numbers...

I can't keep from thinking that this may force Chicago State out.

I also keep thinking, no way SHSU, and SFA join, but if the WAC can pull in ACU and maybe Lamar, Incarnate Word or both, it may cause a chain reaction in D2 with some of the LSC members moving to the WAC.

Southern Utah could move to the WAC with football in the Big Sky until all the transitional members are finished with that and then the WAC could sponsor football. But no way is this an attempt for FBS status. SUU would jump in my opinion, with Dixie St in state, and a better chance at them being the dominant football program and making the playoffs more often.

Who knows, but I can't see SHSU and SFA going.

But if a few Southland schools leave, think they would have room for a few more?

(10-23-2020 12:45 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 12:26 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:37 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 04:10 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  

(10-22-2020 11:53 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  https://twitter.com/CalebKTRE/status/131...4045545473

Key word in that tweet is "formal invite". That can be seen as confirmation that there are discussions happening from both sides. It does not say an information invite was received and was rejected.

From years on this board I have learned that formal invites only come if an invite is guaranteed to be accepted.

Yep, and I am having a hard time figuring this one. An invite to ACU I get. An invite to Lamar, SFA, and SHSU, I don't get. SFA is 130 miles from George Bush International, along a two lane highway going through national forests. Lamar is 80 miles from George Bush International along I-10 and SHSU is 65 miles north, where the highlight is the state prison. Southeast Texas is a long way to travel to play conference Olympic sports contests and these schools don't really help make the WAC a two-bid league.

If these schools are really considering leaving the SLC, it is not about FBS football. Sure, Jeff Hurd could tangle the promise that the WAC could exercise their "grandfather clause" for FBS football at some point down the road. But that is a long-shot. No, these three schools must have a concern about something going on in the SLC. It could be about the five Louisiana schools and Central Arkansas, schools that were struggling financially before the Covid-19 pandemic hit. Or as someone mentioned, they have issues with Houston Baptist and UIW. I think FCS football is going to happen for the WAC and FBS football is a pipe dream. But I will really be surprised if these three southeast Texas schools join the WAC.

I feel the same way. SUU to the WAC, I could see it without football. Why would they bring their football team from the Big Sky to the WAC? Same with these Southland schools. UIW and HBU can’t be that much “worse” than being in the same conference with Seattle and Cal Baptist. The WAC Tournament will likely remain in Las Vegas, so now those 4/5 SLC teams’ fans will have to fly to Vegas than a quick drive somewhere in Texas. Their football teams are better off playing SUU and Dixie???

Here are the issues that these schools in the Southland to bolt.

1.Houston Baptist, UIW and New Orleansare like Chicago State when they joined and they still are. Only UIW have improved. It had to do with money.

2.Their facilities are or were terrible. UIW improve, but all 3 are still behind the others. Seattle U. and California Baptist have better facilities.

3.The uncertainty of the state of Louisiana budget wise, and if and when the law makers decide to merge them.

4.The political nature of the Religious leaders at both Houston Baptist and UIW was a sticky point as well.

If the SLC schools do come into the WAC, if you're UTRGV, do you look into SLC membership? You have a natural rival in A&M-CC. You can bus to all the SLC schools. And the SLC already has two non football schools, so it's not like not having football is a huge hurdle.

(10-23-2020 04:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  If the SLC schools do come into the WAC, if you're UTRGV, do you look into SLC membership? You have a natural rival in A&M-CC. You can bus to all the SLC schools. And the SLC already has two non football schools, so it's not like not having football is a huge hurdle.

They'd love to be in the SLC with their natural rival A&MCC. Seems like a few years (pre-Great West?) ago SLC told them no thanks and one of the reasons was no football.

(10-23-2020 04:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  If the SLC schools do come into the WAC, if you're UTRGV, do you look into SLC membership? You have a natural rival in A&M-CC. You can bus to all the SLC schools. And the SLC already has two non football schools, so it's not like not having football is a huge hurdle.

There is no loyalty in college sports, but that would be something else.

(10-23-2020 04:21 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  I can't keep from thinking that this may force Chicago State out.

I also keep thinking, no way SHSU, and SFA join, but if the WAC can pull in ACU and maybe Lamar, Incarnate Word or both, it may cause a chain reaction in D2 with some of the LSC members moving to the WAC.

Southern Utah could move to the WAC with football in the Big Sky until all the transitional members are finished with that and then the WAC could sponsor football. But no way is this an attempt for FBS status. SUU would jump in my opinion, with Dixie St in state, and a better chance at them being the dominant football program and making the playoffs more often.

Who knows, but I can't see SHSU and SFA going.

But if a few Southland schools leave, think they would have room for a few more?

I'd say if the WAC ends up with some SLC schools, let any Lone star conference D2 move ups go to the Southland. The WAC won't need any more members and definitely don't want to be a primarily Texas conference.

Pan Am was consistently snubbed by pretty much everyone, and at this point for RGV, the Southland would just be a step down. Their institutional trajectory is much higher than the typical Southland schools who are pretty much going nowhere.

(10-23-2020 11:24 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Several things on this situation from my vantage point as a Sam Houston State fan (note, I posted this on SHSU MB because there were comments about particular schools NMSU and ChiSt)...

1) New Mexico State is not going FCS. The Aggies have locked in games annually in football against UTEP and New Mexico. Going FCS gives up those games which mean a lot to their alumni, communities. To the Aggies' credit, they have done a great job scheduling considering their geographic situation and their inability to get into the Mountain West. In addition to two aforementioned games which rotate home-and-away annually, they have good relations with the Mountain West schools who seem to be open to straight home-and-homes with them plus the other independents (notably Liberty and UMass)
UTEP and UNM will play their FBS triangle games with each other as long as they're not is the same conference as one another. There you have it if you dare.

2) Chicago State is likely not going to be in the WAC for long. They are a mess as an institution and such a geographic outlier. I am hopeful for their sake, they can make Division II work but that's realistically their only option as no one else wants them. Doubt the Summit League or Horizon would want to introduce the Cougars to their league.
Is Chicago State to the MEAC still a thing??? MEAC could throw a DI lifeline to CSU if they're desperate enough.

3) Evidently Tarleton State (and from what I am told, the Texas A&M System) is behind parts of this increased gossip. The A&M System is what brought Tarleton State up to Division I and it would not surprise me if they are also going to get the ball rolling on Texas A&M - Commerce before long, which could be a thing in another year or few. The WAC does not want too many Division I move-ups at once for scheduling purposes, etc. The Texas A&M system's involvement is interesting in this because if they are really able to get the Texas football playing schools, I do not see a way that Texas A&M - Corpus Christi is "left behind".
The TX A&M System conspiracy theory to migrate their schools from the SLC & LSC to the WAC is intriguing. They could all be in a TX-centric division of the WAC.

4) What would be the draw? The 'carrot' of FBS football could be a thing here. I am not certain on the specifics but apparently there's some rule or grandfathering that allows the WAC to move up to FBS as a league. While a FBS WAC may not be the best situation for the schools involved, it would certainly make the path easier to Sun Belt or C-USA if the G5 as we know it exists going forward.
The FBS 'carrot' is a plus. It may not necessarily be a must for some school since they're not if any position for FBS. Some schools may have other reasons for moving to the WAC from their current conference. WAC FBS or bust could be strategy for sometime down the road to coincide with FPS renewal after 2025.

5) The WAC could also pretty much isolate the Texas teams into a division with very limited (across sports) cross-division play, which avoids significant upticks in air travel and significant monies for the Texas schools. Additionally by being in the WAC, the Southland schools (old and departed) could continue to schedule games against each other which helps with expenses for OOC particularly in football where the only non-flight options are SWAC schools (and Tarleton State) realistically at this moment for the Texas schools.
Would a TX-centric FBS division in the WAC be enough to entice the former TX WAC members to come back???

(10-23-2020 06:33 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:24 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Several things on this situation from my vantage point as a Sam Houston State fan (note, I posted this on SHSU MB because there were comments about particular schools NMSU and ChiSt)...

1) New Mexico State is not going FCS. The Aggies have locked in games annually in football against UTEP and New Mexico. Going FCS gives up those games which mean a lot to their alumni, communities. To the Aggies' credit, they have done a great job scheduling considering their geographic situation and their inability to get into the Mountain West. In addition to two aforementioned games which rotate home-and-away annually, they have good relations with the Mountain West schools who seem to be open to straight home-and-homes with them plus the other independents (notably Liberty and UMass)
UTEP and UNM will play their FBS triangle games with each other as long as they're not is the same conference as one another. There you have it if you dare.

2) Chicago State is likely not going to be in the WAC for long. They are a mess as an institution and such a geographic outlier. I am hopeful for their sake, they can make Division II work but that's realistically their only option as no one else wants them. Doubt the Summit League or Horizon would want to introduce the Cougars to their league.
Is Chicago State to the MEAC still a thing??? MEAC could throw a DI lifeline to CSU if they're desperate enough.

3) Evidently Tarleton State (and from what I am told, the Texas A&M System) is behind parts of this increased gossip. The A&M System is what brought Tarleton State up to Division I and it would not surprise me if they are also going to get the ball rolling on Texas A&M - Commerce before long, which could be a thing in another year or few. The WAC does not want too many Division I move-ups at once for scheduling purposes, etc. The Texas A&M system's involvement is interesting in this because if they are really able to get the Texas football playing schools, I do not see a way that Texas A&M - Corpus Christi is "left behind".
The TX A&M System conspiracy theory to migrate their schools from the SLC & LSC to the WAC is intriguing. They could all be in a TX-centric division of the WAC.

4) What would be the draw? The 'carrot' of FBS football could be a thing here. I am not certain on the specifics but apparently there's some rule or grandfathering that allows the WAC to move up to FBS as a league. While a FBS WAC may not be the best situation for the schools involved, it would certainly make the path easier to Sun Belt or C-USA if the G5 as we know it exists going forward.
The FBS 'carrot' is a plus. It may not necessarily be a must for some school since they're not if any position for FBS. Some schools may have other reasons for moving to the WAC from their current conference. WAC FBS or bust could be strategy for sometime down the road to coincide with FPS renewal after 2025.

5) The WAC could also pretty much isolate the Texas teams into a division with very limited (across sports) cross-division play, which avoids significant upticks in air travel and significant monies for the Texas schools. Additionally by being in the WAC, the Southland schools (old and departed) could continue to schedule games against each other which helps with expenses for OOC particularly in football where the only non-flight options are SWAC schools (and Tarleton State) realistically at this moment for the Texas schools.
Would a TX-centric FBS division in the WAC be enough to entice the former TX WAC members to come back???

For your answer to number 5 I'd say no. We joined FBS to distance ourselves from those programs. If TXST was back in a conference with Southland schools and D2 callups I'd be pretty disappointed and it would be hard to get excited for games so I'd probably stop paying so much attention.

(10-24-2020 10:37 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:33 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:24 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Several things on this situation from my vantage point as a Sam Houston State fan (note, I posted this on SHSU MB because there were comments about particular schools NMSU and ChiSt)...

1) New Mexico State is not going FCS. The Aggies have locked in games annually in football against UTEP and New Mexico. Going FCS gives up those games which mean a lot to their alumni, communities. To the Aggies' credit, they have done a great job scheduling considering their geographic situation and their inability to get into the Mountain West. In addition to two aforementioned games which rotate home-and-away annually, they have good relations with the Mountain West schools who seem to be open to straight home-and-homes with them plus the other independents (notably Liberty and UMass)
UTEP and UNM will play their FBS triangle games with each other as long as they're not is the same conference as one another. There you have it if you dare.

2) Chicago State is likely not going to be in the WAC for long. They are a mess as an institution and such a geographic outlier. I am hopeful for their sake, they can make Division II work but that's realistically their only option as no one else wants them. Doubt the Summit League or Horizon would want to introduce the Cougars to their league.
Is Chicago State to the MEAC still a thing??? MEAC could throw a DI lifeline to CSU if they're desperate enough.

3) Evidently Tarleton State (and from what I am told, the Texas A&M System) is behind parts of this increased gossip. The A&M System is what brought Tarleton State up to Division I and it would not surprise me if they are also going to get the ball rolling on Texas A&M - Commerce before long, which could be a thing in another year or few. The WAC does not want too many Division I move-ups at once for scheduling purposes, etc. The Texas A&M system's involvement is interesting in this because if they are really able to get the Texas football playing schools, I do not see a way that Texas A&M - Corpus Christi is "left behind".
The TX A&M System conspiracy theory to migrate their schools from the SLC & LSC to the WAC is intriguing. They could all be in a TX-centric division of the WAC.

4) What would be the draw? The 'carrot' of FBS football could be a thing here. I am not certain on the specifics but apparently there's some rule or grandfathering that allows the WAC to move up to FBS as a league. While a FBS WAC may not be the best situation for the schools involved, it would certainly make the path easier to Sun Belt or C-USA if the G5 as we know it exists going forward.
The FBS 'carrot' is a plus. It may not necessarily be a must for some school since they're not if any position for FBS. Some schools may have other reasons for moving to the WAC from their current conference. WAC FBS or bust could be strategy for sometime down the road to coincide with FPS renewal after 2025.

5) The WAC could also pretty much isolate the Texas teams into a division with very limited (across sports) cross-division play, which avoids significant upticks in air travel and significant monies for the Texas schools. Additionally by being in the WAC, the Southland schools (old and departed) could continue to schedule games against each other which helps with expenses for OOC particularly in football where the only non-flight options are SWAC schools (and Tarleton State) realistically at this moment for the Texas schools.
Would a TX-centric FBS division in the WAC be enough to entice the former TX WAC members to come back???

For your answer to number 5 I'd say no. We joined FBS to distance ourselves from those programs. If TXST was back in a conference with Southland schools and D2 callups I'd be pretty disappointed and it would be hard to get excited for games so I'd probably stop paying so much attention.

Agreed. Texas States move to FBS was sold to fans as being peers with the University of Houston instead of Sam Houston.

They closed the chapter on their rivalry with A&M Kingsville when they moved from D2 to FCS. Likewise they moved up to the WAC/FBS to separate from the Southland.

Comparing the Tarleton and Texas State moves has been interesting. Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WT, A&M Commerce or Angelo State. I think Texan fans would welcome them to a future conference. However, Texas State believed they had outgrown the Southland and tried to keep separation from the other members. As 2013 said, doing everything that was done only to end up with SFA and Tarleton would be a gut punch

(10-24-2020 12:36 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 10:37 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:33 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:24 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Several things on this situation from my vantage point as a Sam Houston State fan (note, I posted this on SHSU MB because there were comments about particular schools NMSU and ChiSt)...

1) New Mexico State is not going FCS. The Aggies have locked in games annually in football against UTEP and New Mexico. Going FCS gives up those games which mean a lot to their alumni, communities. To the Aggies' credit, they have done a great job scheduling considering their geographic situation and their inability to get into the Mountain West. In addition to two aforementioned games which rotate home-and-away annually, they have good relations with the Mountain West schools who seem to be open to straight home-and-homes with them plus the other independents (notably Liberty and UMass)
UTEP and UNM will play their FBS triangle games with each other as long as they're not is the same conference as one another. There you have it if you dare.

2) Chicago State is likely not going to be in the WAC for long. They are a mess as an institution and such a geographic outlier. I am hopeful for their sake, they can make Division II work but that's realistically their only option as no one else wants them. Doubt the Summit League or Horizon would want to introduce the Cougars to their league.
Is Chicago State to the MEAC still a thing??? MEAC could throw a DI lifeline to CSU if they're desperate enough.

3) Evidently Tarleton State (and from what I am told, the Texas A&M System) is behind parts of this increased gossip. The A&M System is what brought Tarleton State up to Division I and it would not surprise me if they are also going to get the ball rolling on Texas A&M - Commerce before long, which could be a thing in another year or few. The WAC does not want too many Division I move-ups at once for scheduling purposes, etc. The Texas A&M system's involvement is interesting in this because if they are really able to get the Texas football playing schools, I do not see a way that Texas A&M - Corpus Christi is "left behind".
The TX A&M System conspiracy theory to migrate their schools from the SLC & LSC to the WAC is intriguing. They could all be in a TX-centric division of the WAC.

4) What would be the draw? The 'carrot' of FBS football could be a thing here. I am not certain on the specifics but apparently there's some rule or grandfathering that allows the WAC to move up to FBS as a league. While a FBS WAC may not be the best situation for the schools involved, it would certainly make the path easier to Sun Belt or C-USA if the G5 as we know it exists going forward.
The FBS 'carrot' is a plus. It may not necessarily be a must for some school since they're not if any position for FBS. Some schools may have other reasons for moving to the WAC from their current conference. WAC FBS or bust could be strategy for sometime down the road to coincide with FPS renewal after 2025.

5) The WAC could also pretty much isolate the Texas teams into a division with very limited (across sports) cross-division play, which avoids significant upticks in air travel and significant monies for the Texas schools. Additionally by being in the WAC, the Southland schools (old and departed) could continue to schedule games against each other which helps with expenses for OOC particularly in football where the only non-flight options are SWAC schools (and Tarleton State) realistically at this moment for the Texas schools.
Would a TX-centric FBS division in the WAC be enough to entice the former TX WAC members to come back???

For your answer to number 5 I'd say no. We joined FBS to distance ourselves from those programs. If TXST was back in a conference with Southland schools and D2 callups I'd be pretty disappointed and it would be hard to get excited for games so I'd probably stop paying so much attention.

Agreed. Texas States move to FBS was sold to fans as being peers with the University of Houston instead of Sam Houston.

They closed the chapter on their rivalry with A&M Kingsville when they moved from D2 to FCS. Likewise they moved up to the WAC/FBS to separate from the Southland.

Comparing the Tarleton and Texas State moves has been interesting. Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WT, A&M Commerce or Angelo State. I think Texan fans would welcome them to a future conference. However, Texas State believed they had outgrown the Southland and tried to keep separation from the other members. As 2013 said, doing everything that was done only to end up with SFA and Tarleton would be a gut punch

Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WTAMU, Commerce and Angelo because we understand they have the resources, know how to win, and can beat us on any given Saturday.
They're consistently in the regional and national rankings with us and have earned our respect.
Every conference, at every level, has its consistent top-tier programs representing it at the regional and national level.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never associated Texas State, formerly Southwest Texas State, as a top-tier program in any conference its ever been a part of, at any level.
They sucked in D2 with the Lone Star Conference, REALLY sucked at the FCS level in the Souhland Conference, and now have a combined 13-43 record in the Sunbelt, including a 4-12 record against perennial FBS powerhouse Louisiana-Monroe.
C'mon, bobbiecats. Texas State is the epitome of underachiever. The idea of them turning their nose up at any school with a winning tradition is laughable.

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 12:36 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 10:37 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:33 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 11:24 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Several things on this situation from my vantage point as a Sam Houston State fan (note, I posted this on SHSU MB because there were comments about particular schools NMSU and ChiSt)...

1) New Mexico State is not going FCS. The Aggies have locked in games annually in football against UTEP and New Mexico. Going FCS gives up those games which mean a lot to their alumni, communities. To the Aggies' credit, they have done a great job scheduling considering their geographic situation and their inability to get into the Mountain West. In addition to two aforementioned games which rotate home-and-away annually, they have good relations with the Mountain West schools who seem to be open to straight home-and-homes with them plus the other independents (notably Liberty and UMass)
UTEP and UNM will play their FBS triangle games with each other as long as they're not is the same conference as one another. There you have it if you dare.

2) Chicago State is likely not going to be in the WAC for long. They are a mess as an institution and such a geographic outlier. I am hopeful for their sake, they can make Division II work but that's realistically their only option as no one else wants them. Doubt the Summit League or Horizon would want to introduce the Cougars to their league.
Is Chicago State to the MEAC still a thing??? MEAC could throw a DI lifeline to CSU if they're desperate enough.

3) Evidently Tarleton State (and from what I am told, the Texas A&M System) is behind parts of this increased gossip. The A&M System is what brought Tarleton State up to Division I and it would not surprise me if they are also going to get the ball rolling on Texas A&M - Commerce before long, which could be a thing in another year or few. The WAC does not want too many Division I move-ups at once for scheduling purposes, etc. The Texas A&M system's involvement is interesting in this because if they are really able to get the Texas football playing schools, I do not see a way that Texas A&M - Corpus Christi is "left behind".
The TX A&M System conspiracy theory to migrate their schools from the SLC & LSC to the WAC is intriguing. They could all be in a TX-centric division of the WAC.

4) What would be the draw? The 'carrot' of FBS football could be a thing here. I am not certain on the specifics but apparently there's some rule or grandfathering that allows the WAC to move up to FBS as a league. While a FBS WAC may not be the best situation for the schools involved, it would certainly make the path easier to Sun Belt or C-USA if the G5 as we know it exists going forward.
The FBS 'carrot' is a plus. It may not necessarily be a must for some school since they're not if any position for FBS. Some schools may have other reasons for moving to the WAC from their current conference. WAC FBS or bust could be strategy for sometime down the road to coincide with FPS renewal after 2025.

5) The WAC could also pretty much isolate the Texas teams into a division with very limited (across sports) cross-division play, which avoids significant upticks in air travel and significant monies for the Texas schools. Additionally by being in the WAC, the Southland schools (old and departed) could continue to schedule games against each other which helps with expenses for OOC particularly in football where the only non-flight options are SWAC schools (and Tarleton State) realistically at this moment for the Texas schools.
Would a TX-centric FBS division in the WAC be enough to entice the former TX WAC members to come back???

For your answer to number 5 I'd say no. We joined FBS to distance ourselves from those programs. If TXST was back in a conference with Southland schools and D2 callups I'd be pretty disappointed and it would be hard to get excited for games so I'd probably stop paying so much attention.

Agreed. Texas States move to FBS was sold to fans as being peers with the University of Houston instead of Sam Houston.

They closed the chapter on their rivalry with A&M Kingsville when they moved from D2 to FCS. Likewise they moved up to the WAC/FBS to separate from the Southland.

Comparing the Tarleton and Texas State moves has been interesting. Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WT, A&M Commerce or Angelo State. I think Texan fans would welcome them to a future conference. However, Texas State believed they had outgrown the Southland and tried to keep separation from the other members. As 2013 said, doing everything that was done only to end up with SFA and Tarleton would be a gut punch

Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WTAMU, Commerce and Angelo because we understand they have the resources, know how to win, and can beat us on any given Saturday.
They're consistently in the regional and national rankings with us and have earned our respect.
Every conference, at every level, has its consistent top-tier programs representing it at the regional and national level.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never associated Texas State, formerly Southwest Texas State, as a top-tier program in any conference its ever been a part of, at any level.
They sucked in D2 with the Lone Star Conference, REALLY sucked at the FCS level in the Souhland Conference, and now have a combined 13-43 record in the Sunbelt, including a 4-12 record against perennial FBS powerhouse Louisiana-Monroe.
C'mon, bobbiecats. Texas State is the epitome of underachiever. The idea of them turning their nose up at any school with a winning tradition is laughable.

I get it, we've been mediocre outside of the early 80s, didn't see much success in the FCS and have only had one winning season in the FBS, but there's a lot more to a program than wins and losses, look at our budget, facilities, attendance, and non football sports and tell me we're on the same level as whatever schools you're referring to.

(10-24-2020 03:03 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 12:36 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-24-2020 10:37 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 06:33 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

For your answer to number 5 I'd say no. We joined FBS to distance ourselves from those programs. If TXST was back in a conference with Southland schools and D2 callups I'd be pretty disappointed and it would be hard to get excited for games so I'd probably stop paying so much attention.

Agreed. Texas States move to FBS was sold to fans as being peers with the University of Houston instead of Sam Houston.

They closed the chapter on their rivalry with A&M Kingsville when they moved from D2 to FCS. Likewise they moved up to the WAC/FBS to separate from the Southland.

Comparing the Tarleton and Texas State moves has been interesting. Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WT, A&M Commerce or Angelo State. I think Texan fans would welcome them to a future conference. However, Texas State believed they had outgrown the Southland and tried to keep separation from the other members. As 2013 said, doing everything that was done only to end up with SFA and Tarleton would be a gut punch

Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WTAMU, Commerce and Angelo because we understand they have the resources, know how to win, and can beat us on any given Saturday.
They're consistently in the regional and national rankings with us and have earned our respect.
Every conference, at every level, has its consistent top-tier programs representing it at the regional and national level.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never associated Texas State, formerly Southwest Texas State, as a top-tier program in any conference its ever been a part of, at any level.
They sucked in D2 with the Lone Star Conference, REALLY sucked at the FCS level in the Souhland Conference, and now have a combined 13-43 record in the Sunbelt, including a 4-12 record against perennial FBS powerhouse Louisiana-Monroe.
C'mon, bobbiecats. Texas State is the epitome of underachiever. The idea of them turning their nose up at any school with a winning tradition is laughable.

I get it, we've been mediocre outside of the early 80s, didn't see much success in the FCS and have only had one winning season in the FBS, but there's a lot more to a program than wins and losses, look at our budget, facilities, attendance, and non football sports and tell me we're on the same level as whatever schools you're referring to.

Ok so Texas State is too highfalutin to be in the same conference with Sam Houston or SFA, but LA-Monroe and AR State are worthy adversaries. If SFA/Sam moved up to the Sunbelt with Texas State, I don't think anybody in Texas that actually knows these schools would say they're trying to punch above their weight.

(10-23-2020 04:21 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  I can't keep from thinking that this may force Chicago State out.

I also keep thinking, no way SHSU, and SFA join, but if the WAC can pull in ACU and maybe Lamar, Incarnate Word or both, it may cause a chain reaction in D2 with some of the LSC members moving to the WAC.

Southern Utah could move to the WAC with football in the Big Sky until all the transitional members are finished with that and then the WAC could sponsor football. But no way is this an attempt for FBS status. SUU would jump in my opinion, with Dixie St in state, and a better chance at them being the dominant football program and making the playoffs more often.

Who knows, but I can't see SHSU and SFA going.

But if a few Southland schools leave, think they would have room for a few more?

I really doubt that the Big Sky would allow SUU to park their football in the Big Sky. It would be a clean break for SUU. Indy in football and WAC in other sports.

(10-24-2020 01:13 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Tarleton doesn't see itself as superior to WTAMU, Commerce and Angelo because we understand they have the resources, know how to win, and can beat us on any given Saturday.
They're consistently in the regional and national rankings with us and have earned our respect.
Every conference, at every level, has its consistent top-tier programs representing it at the regional and national level.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never associated Texas State, formerly Southwest Texas State, as a top-tier program in any conference its ever been a part of, at any level.
They sucked in D2 with the Lone Star Conference, REALLY sucked at the FCS level in the Souhland Conference, now have a combined 13-43 record in the Sunbelt, including a 4-12 record against perennial FBS powerhouse Louisiana-Monroe.
C'mon, bobbiecats. Texas State is the epitome of underachiever. The idea of them turning their nose up at any school with a winning tradition is laughable.

I agree with Chrisattsu and Bobcat2013 regarding joining a conference with SLC schools and Tarleton. It is not personal, it is business. We have moved on from that period of time. As of 2019, Texas State had 38,000 students. We outgrew the SLC. SHSU had 21,000 students, Lamar had 15,000 students, SFA had 13,000 students. Tarleton had 13,000 students. We had a $36.6 million dollar athletic budget in 2018-2019, which over half of which comes from the student athletic fee. The students voted to increase the athletic fee. Texas State has had to put money into improving athletic facilities. The football stadium was expended from 16,000 seats to 30,000 seats. The basketball arena was expended to 10,000 seats.

The point is, it costs a lot of money to move up and compete at a higher level. I am real happy for Tarleton's move up to D1 and FCS football. A great move for the school. But I still think WAC FBS football is a pipe dream and I don't think the FBS schools would want to share their playoff revenue with another conference.

As for the performance of my Bobcats, they have been an embarrassment in recent years. I blame the AD for that, but it is reality. At some point we will win a conference championship in a sport that everyone cares about. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally. But if we are going to be bad, better to be bad at the FBS level. Tonight we play at BYU on ESPN. This season, we have played SMU at home on ESPN, UTSA at home on ESPN2, ULM on the road on ESPNU, at Boston College on the ACC Network, at South Alabama on ESPNU and next week, Louisiana at home on ESPNU. The TV exposure has been good at the FBS level and we get quality non-conference games at home. Next season we have Baylor at home and in 2024, Arizona State. So overall, a good experience. By the way, Texas State did win back-to-back D2 national championships in 1981 and 1982, which I believe are two more than Tarleton State has won.