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WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #2841
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
Think about the amount of collaboration it took for 5 schools to change conferences in tandem. A ton of meetings, talks, organizing and planning had to have taken place. All of that planning contained talk of FBS or the WAC would not have put that out. WAC to FBS is not something that fell out of the sky. So for all the FBS naysayers, every team in the new WAC was aware of FBS talk and what that meant for them (I don't know what that means to every school). But they joined the WAC knowing that FBS was a possibility. If you are in a stable FCS conference and know some WAC teams are probably going FBS, why change conferences? I don't know the answer. Mario has said several times that many of the FCS schools have FBS aspirations. He personally told me, at an NMSU golf fundraiser, that Tarleton has FBS aspirations. So this is what I think:

- Some schools will desire to go FBS
- NMSU did not mastermind everything; I think a lot of schools and admins has input into all of this
- None of the new schools planned to leave their existing conferences with bigger plans to move again in a few short years
- NMSU would be he biggest benefactor in a WAC move to FBS

Just my opinion. Several folks are stating their opinion as fact. No one's opinion is fact because none of us are in the middle of this.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 12:44 PM by PojoaquePosse.)
06-10-2021 12:36 PM
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CW Fishman Offline
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Post: #2842
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
"Lol maybe you’re right but we’ll see. Someone bookmark Todors post. Long as my team keeps winning Nattys and bringing in Ws on the field and the court I could careless whether it’s FBS, FCS or whatever. I’d rather a 100 NCAA Division 1 football National Championships than 100 trips to the Walmart Dollar Store Bowl of Beaux Bridge Louisiana."

Ok then, there were 905K viewers for the FCS National championship game. Here is the viewership for those minor bowl games. Only 3 of them have less viewers. and this year the FCS had no competition for football viewers.

Quick Lane Bowl (3.05 mil)
Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl (2.64 mil)
Belk Bowl (2.62 mil)
Cheez-It Bowl (2.62 mil)
San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl (2.50 mil)
SoFi Hawai’i Bowl (2.43 mil)
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl (2.37 mil)
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl (2.20 mil)
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman (2.01 mil)
Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl (1.99 mil)
Redbox Bowl (1.87 mil)
Celebration Bowl (1.81 mil)
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (1.74 mil)
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (1.59 mil)
LendingTree Bowl (1.45 mil)
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (1.36 mil)
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (1.29 mil)
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (1.25 mil)
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (1.15 mil)
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (0.96 mil)
New Mexico Bowl (0.80 mil)
Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl (0.74 mil)
Camellia Bowl (0.69 mil)
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 01:48 PM by CW Fishman.)
06-10-2021 01:08 PM
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YesCubanB Online
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Post: #2843
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-09-2021 08:23 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:56 PM)coogkat14 Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:48 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:41 PM)coogkat14 Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:33 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  That doesn't make sense. Reclassifying doesn't just boot everyone from the current WAC and create a new conference from scratch with those deemed FBS worthy. Everyone already in the WAC is along for the ride, which is why the Utah Tech and SUU adds don't jive with the FBS idea.

And if a new conference is being created from scratch, then you have to start the clock to gain auto-bids for the Oly sports. And yes, I get the idea of high jacking the WAC is to avoid this continuity issue. Just not seeing how the WAC purges the "undesirables" in this scenario.


I think you miss understood. My theory. If the “FBS WAC” Is to come to fruition and their are schools who do the feasibility study and decide “nah, FBS football isn’t for us” they won’t necessarily be forced out. They will choose place their football somewhere else or leave entirely. No ones booting anyone. I just don’t see the conference deciding to go FBS as a whole and deciding not to because *insert school name here* decides the move is to expensive. Just a thought for if this ever happens.

Honestly the biggest benefactor in this scenario is NMSU. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was their universities Admin who has planned this move, found like minded institutions who would be interested and is spear heading this initiative. It’s smart. Can’t find a conference willing to add us? F it. I’ll “build” my own FBS conference in a way.


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That theory makes more sense, but doesn't explain the SUU add. And not buying NMSU being behind this as nothing about their recent history indicates that level of initiative. I always read it as a power move by the TX SLC defectors to make some noise.


I hear you but with the Texas schools sans SFA being more partial to football why would they choose the WAC if this was a power move which I interpret as you alluding to it being an attempt by the Texas schools to “high jack” the WAC. I hear you man but I got to disagree. I don’t believe the Texas schools, Sam in particular only had the WAC as an option. And Sam and SFA were already heavily catered to in the SLC which is why a lot of the LA schools were a little ticked at us leaving. This screams of a long term play by established WAC members who had been working on the Texas 4 for quite some time.


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You didn't get the memo? It is the football-hater GCU Prez that deserves all the credit.. https://news.gcu.edu/2021/03/how-gcu-hel...-its-pack/

Fact is, Tarleton and SFA Prez's, both newly elected, had a private meeting with the SLC Commish when we travelled to Nac to deliver our final FCS butt whoopin' as a D2 program. One week after that meeting, with an imminent invite to join the SLC, Tarleton announces its joining the WAC, paving the way for the Texas4. Fact is the Texas4 didn't hold sway in the SLC like they should've, but that changes now in the WAC. You see, leveraging the WAC's years of desperation with its FBS "golden ticket" presents the stronger/healthier Texas FCS schools the opportunity of building a Texas-centric FBS conference within a Texas-friendly footprint (mini Big 12), which is really what this is all about. Indeed nmsu will benefit from the Texas schools' drive and ambition, but to dare mention they cooked it all up behind the scenes is laughable! They're merely a warm FBS body coming along for the ride.

MINI BIG 12?!! 03-lmfao
06-10-2021 01:16 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #2844
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-10-2021 01:08 PM)CW Fishman Wrote:  Lol maybe you’re right but we’ll see. Someone bookmark Todors post. Long as my team keeps winning Nattys and bringing in Ws on the field and the court I could careless whether it’s FBS, FCS or whatever. I’d rather a 100 NCAA Division 1 football National Championships than 100 trips to the Walmart Dollar Store Bowl of Beaux Bridge Louisiana.

Ok then, there were 905K viewers for the FCS National championship game. Here is the viewership for those minor bowl games. Only 3 of them have less viewers. and this year the FCS had no competition for football viewers.

Quick Lane Bowl (3.05 mil)
Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl (2.64 mil)
Belk Bowl (2.62 mil)
Cheez-It Bowl (2.62 mil)
San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl (2.50 mil)
SoFi Hawai’i Bowl (2.43 mil)
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl (2.37 mil)
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl (2.20 mil)
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman (2.01 mil)
Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl (1.99 mil)
Redbox Bowl (1.87 mil)
Celebration Bowl (1.81 mil)
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (1.74 mil)
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (1.59 mil)
LendingTree Bowl (1.45 mil)
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (1.36 mil)
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (1.29 mil)
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (1.25 mil)
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (1.15 mil)
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (0.96 mil)
New Mexico Bowl (0.80 mil)
Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl (0.74 mil)
Camellia Bowl (0.69 mil)

Yeah I'd take an FCS Natty over any of these 3rd tier bowls any day and twice on Saturday.
06-10-2021 01:17 PM
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coogkat14 Online
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Post: #2845
WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-10-2021 01:08 PM)CW Fishman Wrote:  "Lol maybe you’re right but we’ll see. Someone bookmark Todors post. Long as my team keeps winning Nattys and bringing in Ws on the field and the court I could careless whether it’s FBS, FCS or whatever. I’d rather a 100 NCAA Division 1 football National Championships than 100 trips to the Walmart Dollar Store Bowl of Beaux Bridge Louisiana."

Ok then, there were 905K viewers for the FCS National championship game. Here is the viewership for those minor bowl games. Only 3 of them have less viewers. and this year the FCS had no competition for football viewers.

Quick Lane Bowl (3.05 mil)
Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl (2.64 mil)
Belk Bowl (2.62 mil)
Cheez-It Bowl (2.62 mil)
San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl (2.50 mil)
SoFi Hawai’i Bowl (2.43 mil)
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl (2.37 mil)
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl (2.20 mil)
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman (2.01 mil)
Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl (1.99 mil)
Redbox Bowl (1.87 mil)
Celebration Bowl (1.81 mil)
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (1.74 mil)
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (1.59 mil)
LendingTree Bowl (1.45 mil)
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (1.36 mil)
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (1.29 mil)
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (1.25 mil)
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (1.15 mil)
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (0.96 mil)
New Mexico Bowl (0.80 mil)
Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl (0.74 mil)
Camellia Bowl (0.69 mil)


*for the Spring FCS National Championship game. Here’s the viewership for a few of the previous the national championship.

Keep in mind many of these are without pub from ESPN

[URL] https://www.inforum.com/sports/4385532-m...tv-ratings[/URL]

[URL] https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yaho...ncaaf.html[/URL]

[URL] https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone...ip-numbers[/URL]

But I’m not sure what your argument is. Are you saying playing in a meaningless bowl game for a participation trophy is better than winning a Division 1 National Championship? I think NDSU has been fine with the exposure they just did what many G5 will never do. Have one of their players drafted number 3 overall in the NFL draft. I’m sure that’s going to be in every recruitment pamphlet mailed out to prospective athletes.


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(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 04:00 PM by coogkat14.)
06-10-2021 03:59 PM
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Pounder Offline
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Post: #2846
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-10-2021 01:17 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Yeah I'd take an FCS Natty over any of these 3rd tier bowls any day and twice on Saturday.

If the Bahamas Bowl still has lax security and drunk folk wandering the track, I want Oregon to be in it someday, dangit. :D

Of course, I'm the guy who thinks the future of bowl games should be on fields in the middle of Palm Springs golf courses lined with a row of recliners and sofas and free frozen drinks, since ESPN foots the bill by having 1.3 million pants-free brain dead half-souls who lay about all December watching all these games on cable. Or so the ratings say.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 03:05 PM by Pounder.)
06-11-2021 03:03 PM
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Todor Online
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Post: #2847
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
I can't really compare th lower bowls and an fcs national championship without knowing how much the payout is for the fcs championship. As long as it pays more than the bowls, that's all that matters. Ultimately, it all comes down to the dollars.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 05:07 PM by Todor.)
06-11-2021 05:07 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #2848
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-11-2021 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  I can't really compare th lower bowls and an fcs national championship without knowing how much the payout is for the fcs championship. As long as it pays more than the bowls, that's all that matters. Ultimately, it all comes down to the dollars.

Unless the economics of bowl games changed, those bottom tier bowl games are money losers for the conferences/teams.

On the other hand, the NCAA foots the bill for all the FCS playoff costs.
06-11-2021 06:03 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #2849
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-11-2021 03:03 PM)Pounder Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 01:17 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Yeah I'd take an FCS Natty over any of these 3rd tier bowls any day and twice on Saturday.

If the Bahamas Bowl still has lax security and drunk folk wandering the track, I want Oregon to be in it someday, dangit. :D

Of course, I'm the guy who thinks the future of bowl games should be on fields in the middle of Palm Springs golf courses lined with a row of recliners and sofas and free frozen drinks, since ESPN foots the bill by having 1.3 million pants-free brain dead half-souls who lay about all December watching all these games on cable. Or so the ratings say.

You might be onto something here...
06-11-2021 06:04 PM
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LUSportsFan Online
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Post: #2850
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-11-2021 06:03 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  I can't really compare th lower bowls and an fcs national championship without knowing how much the payout is for the fcs championship. As long as it pays more than the bowls, that's all that matters. Ultimately, it all comes down to the dollars.

Unless the economics of bowl games changed, those bottom tier bowl games are money losers for the conferences/teams.

On the other hand, the NCAA foots the bill for all the FCS playoff costs.

Not according to the article linked below.

Quote:...[M]uch of the bills of hosting, officiating, and maintaining the championship fall to the host schools themselves. Schools make bids on the playoff games, and if chosen to host a playoff game, have to provide guarantees that they pay the NCAA to conduct the playoff games.

This makes for the not-at-all-uncommon occurrence that schools have deep runs in the FCS playoffs but lose significant sums of money in the process...

Link - The Real Problem with the FCS Playoffs

I wonder if there were any allowances in this last FCS Championship playoff cycle since seats sold were limited to 25% of stadium capacity.

Link - Spring FCS Playoff Games Will Have 25% Max Capacity
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 07:00 PM by LUSportsFan.)
06-11-2021 06:15 PM
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Todor Online
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Post: #2851
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-11-2021 06:03 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  I can't really compare th lower bowls and an fcs national championship without knowing how much the payout is for the fcs championship. As long as it pays more than the bowls, that's all that matters. Ultimately, it all comes down to the dollars.

Unless the economics of bowl games changed, those bottom tier bowl games are money losers for the conferences/teams.

On the other hand, the NCAA foots the bill for all the FCS playoff costs.

Gotcha. I never really kept track of FCS, NAIA, Juco etc to have a clear understanding of how their economics work out.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 06:18 PM by Todor.)
06-11-2021 06:17 PM
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Post: #2852
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-11-2021 06:15 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 06:03 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  I can't really compare th lower bowls and an fcs national championship without knowing how much the payout is for the fcs championship. As long as it pays more than the bowls, that's all that matters. Ultimately, it all comes down to the dollars.

Unless the economics of bowl games changed, those bottom tier bowl games are money losers for the conferences/teams.

On the other hand, the NCAA foots the bill for all the FCS playoff costs.

Not according to the article linked below.

Quote:...[M]uch of the bills of hosting, officiating, and maintaining the championship fall to the host schools themselves. Schools make bids on the playoff games, and if chosen to host a playoff game, have to provide guarantees that they pay the NCAA to conduct the playoff games.

This makes for the not-at-all-uncommon occurrence that schools have deep runs in the FCS playoffs but lose significant sums of money in the process...

Link - The Real Problem with the FCS Playoffs

I wonder if there were any allowances in this last FCS Championship playoff cycle since seats sold were limited to 25% of stadium capacity.

Link - Spring FCS Playoff Games Will Have 25% Max Capacity

Meh, artilce offers no numbers and tells us what is generally known. Yes, 1st round games are bid on by the host schools so if they can't make it up at the gate they lose money. NCAA picks up the travel tab and my understanding collects the gate for the later rounds. It's an NCAA sanctioned post season, so they cover the costs as they do all other post season events.
06-11-2021 09:52 PM
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Post: #2853
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(06-10-2021 01:08 PM)CW Fishman Wrote:  "Lol maybe you’re right but we’ll see. Someone bookmark Todors post. Long as my team keeps winning Nattys and bringing in Ws on the field and the court I could careless whether it’s FBS, FCS or whatever. I’d rather a 100 NCAA Division 1 football National Championships than 100 trips to the Walmart Dollar Store Bowl of Beaux Bridge Louisiana."

Ok then, there were 905K viewers for the FCS National championship game. Here is the viewership for those minor bowl games. Only 3 of them have less viewers. and this year the FCS had no competition for football viewers.

Quick Lane Bowl (3.05 mil)
Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl (2.64 mil)
Belk Bowl (2.62 mil)
Cheez-It Bowl (2.62 mil)
San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl (2.50 mil)
SoFi Hawai’i Bowl (2.43 mil)
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl (2.37 mil)
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl (2.20 mil)
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman (2.01 mil)
Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl (1.99 mil)
Redbox Bowl (1.87 mil)
Celebration Bowl (1.81 mil)
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (1.74 mil)
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (1.59 mil)
LendingTree Bowl (1.45 mil)
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (1.36 mil)
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (1.29 mil)
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (1.25 mil)
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (1.15 mil)
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (0.96 mil)
New Mexico Bowl (0.80 mil)
Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl (0.74 mil)
Camellia Bowl (0.69 mil)

This year’s entire FCS season was an anomaly up to and including the championship game- its was a spring schedule. The championship game faced a lengthy weather delay. Maybe the 2020 championship game gives a more accurate picture of viewership? 2.7 million watched the NDSU v James Madison game.
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CW Fishman Offline
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Post: #2854
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
OK then, I am glad all of you are happy to be FCS. (except NMSU) One of the 125 FCS teams plays in a championship game. 3 or 4 of those bowl games will not survive if the 12 team playoff system is implemented. I was originally under the impression that the WAC expanded with the intention that eventually it would evolve into a FBS conference again, but it sounds like most of you would be against that.

Personally, for me, I really like the Cajuns being FBS and the (Lamar) Cardinals being FCS. They are both seem to be where they belong at this point.
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CW Fishman Offline
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Post: #2855
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
The payouts for bowl games are generally shared by the conference members (at least in the SBC) after the participating teams expenses are met. If you aspire to the upper echelons of G5, yearly exposure provided by appearances in bowl games is vital to recruiting. This year 5 SBC teams appeared in bowl games, with the belt winning 4 of the 5. The bowl winning percentage improves payouts the conference gets from the playoff system. The G5 conferences currently share $90M and any school that plays in a playoff game receives additional monies. (for example, the AAC received an additional 4M for Memphis' appearance in the Cotton Bowl in 2019)

By way of comparison, the FCS conferences that provide the full NCAA-allowable complement of scholarships receive $2.43 million as a collective pool, which includes the Big Sky, Big South, Colonial, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley, Southern, Southland, and SWAC. (this was from 2019)
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Post: #2856
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(Yesterday 12:38 PM)CW Fishman Wrote:  OK then, I am glad all of you are happy to be FCS. (except NMSU) One of the 125 FCS teams plays in a championship game. 3 or 4 of those bowl games will not survive if the 12 team playoff system is implemented. I was originally under the impression that the WAC expanded with the intention that eventually it would evolve into a FBS conference again, but it sounds like most of you would be against that.

Personally, for me, I really like the Cajuns being FBS and the (Lamar) Cardinals being FCS. They are both seem to be where they belong at this point.

I no longer live in the Beaumont area. but it sure would be good to play the Cajuns at home again. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe FCS teams can schedule FBS teams at home.
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TexasTerror Offline
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Post: #2857
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(Yesterday 04:57 PM)FirstandGoal Wrote:  I no longer live in the Beaumont area. but it sure would be good to play the Cajuns at home again. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe FCS teams can schedule FBS teams at home.

There’s several leagues that restrict FBS at FCS games but there have been a rare handful or so. Yale hosting Army may have been most recent. Ball State was scheduled to play at Illinois St in last decade and that was cancelled.

There’s a list linked to on Reddit but the link is no longer good. Some comments on the thread that reference games including Buffalo at UConn a few years before the Huskies started their transition
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CW Fishman Offline
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Post: #2858
RE: WAC Expansion/FCS - for real (Official Discussion Thread)
(Yesterday 04:57 PM)FirstandGoal Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:38 PM)CW Fishman Wrote:  OK then, I am glad all of you are happy to be FCS. (except NMSU) One of the 125 FCS teams plays in a championship game. 3 or 4 of those bowl games will not survive if the 12 team playoff system is implemented. I was originally under the impression that the WAC expanded with the intention that eventually it would evolve into a FBS conference again, but it sounds like most of you would be against that.

Personally, for me, I really like the Cajuns being FBS and the (Lamar) Cardinals being FCS. They are both seem to be where they belong at this point.

I no longer live in the Beaumont area. but it sure would be good to play the Cajuns at home again. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe FCS teams can schedule FBS teams at home.

We do not live around Beaumont either, but we have family there. I attended Lamar when it was D1, before the split between D1A and D1AA. You are correct that member schools (at least in the SBC) may not travel to play at FCS schools, but UL usually hosts a FCS school almost every season at Cajun Field. The last time the Cajuns and Cards met at Cajun Field was in 2012. I just wish they still played each other in other sports. Those games were always fun for me, I always wore red (or was it vermillion? LOL). 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:19 PM by CW Fishman.)
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