Which move by a school either to a new conference or to independence which were decided after 2015 (i.e., not including Navy FB to AAC) was the best?

* UConn to Big East from AAC

* Wichita State to AAC from MVC

NJIT went from the A-Sun to America East.

(09-30-2020 04:10 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  NJIT went from the A-Sun to America East.

I agree...

Would it be considered a good move if you realized the finances were untenable in D1 and dropped back?

MAC getting rid of UMass football

(10-01-2020 10:00 AM)zibby Wrote:  MAC getting rid of UMass football

Sure, though the MAC did offer them full membership, which UMass of course declined. So unless that was an ultimatum crafted by the conference to get rid of UMass football (it's possible), they were seemingly willing to keep UMass on if they joined in full.

(09-30-2020 04:49 PM)whittx Wrote:  Would it be considered a good move if you realized the finances were untenable in D1 and dropped back?

Schools that got out of D1 money losing situations and went to D3 like Birmingham-Southern and Centenary made the right call. They're both in conferences with like-minded institutions with similar resources.

Idaho is a little bit of a tougher call, but I think they ultimately made the right decision given the challenges of independent scheduling and the ability to re-join a conference of historic rivals that was also an Olympic sports upgrade. I know it's hard for them to watch Boise have such success, but Idaho would have needed the MWC to be desperate to get an invite.

By far UConn. They finally stopped pretending to be big-boy football relevant and admit what they are...........

A Women's basketball hotbed.....

I voted for Coastal Carolina because going from the Big South to Sun Belt is a giant leap in stature.

Big South football was the island of misfit toys. The SoCon wouldn’t give them the time of day so they leaped over them and into the FBS ranks when the opportunity presented itself.

(10-01-2020 01:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I voted for Coastal Carolina because going from the Big South to Sun Belt is a giant leap in stature.

Big South football was the island of misfit toys. The SoCon wouldn’t give them the time of day so they leaped over them and into the FBS ranks when the opportunity presented itself.

Good choice. Forgot about CCar

(09-30-2020 02:08 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  * UConn to Big East from AAC

* Wichita State to AAC from MVC

IMO, Wichita State to the AAC has been a disappointment for them. Granted it's just three years in, but to me their profile and results have declined.

Nor have they been the big energy-boost to the AAC that was hoped for either.

(10-01-2020 11:49 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(09-30-2020 04:49 PM)whittx Wrote:  Would it be considered a good move if you realized the finances were untenable in D1 and dropped back?

Schools that got out of D1 money losing situations and went to D3 like Birmingham-Southern and Centenary made the right call. They're both in conferences with like-minded institutions with similar resources.

Idaho is a little bit of a tougher call, but I think they ultimately made the right decision given the challenges of independent scheduling and the ability to re-join a conference of historic rivals that was also an Olympic sports upgrade. I know it's hard for them to watch Boise have such success, but Idaho would have needed the MWC to be desperate to get an invite.

I was thinking of a Savannah State, since this is post 2015.

(10-02-2020 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-30-2020 02:08 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  * UConn to Big East from AAC

* Wichita State to AAC from MVC

IMO, Wichita State to the AAC has been a disappointment for them. Granted it's just three years in, but to me their profile and results have declined.

Nor have they been the big energy-boost to the AAC that was hoped for either.

Yes and no, Mr. Quo.

True, WSU has not done as well as it had in the MVC and I'm sure their fans are disappointed about that. But the disappointment is not limited to AAC membership. Can WSU imagine being stuck in the Valley without Creighton and having been this average by its standards the last three years? When CU left ... WSU had to get out. It had no choice, basically.

This kind of goes to your "P5 vs. G5 membership and which is best" argument (and with which I don't necessarily agree): Better to be average in a strong league (the AAC is clearly better in most metrics than the MVC) than strong in an average league. Just like it's better for Vandy to be average in the strong SEC than Memphis to be strong in the average AAC.

As to the "energy boost," ... not a bad point you make. It has not been the "positive jolt" I was hoping for the American. But that can change quickly. I would argue simply having Wichita in the league helps Memphis and Cincy in recruiting (as the coaches can point to the AAC having some quality/name members and opponents). It's one reason, among many, losing UConn men's hoops (even though it was average) hurts recruiting for Memphis and Cincy. The American lost a brand against which Memphis and UC coaches could recruit. It gained one with Wichita.

I don’t think the departure of a team that has been the 7th or 8th best team in the AAC the past 5 years will affect recruiting that much. I can tell you as a UC fan I can’t think of one recruit over the past 7 years who came here because he wanted to play UConn. In fact, we had one of our best recruiting classes in a while last year after it was announced UConn was leaving.

As to Wichita, their brand is stronger than ever. The play on national TV all the time in the AAC, whereas they rarely did so in the MVC. They have struggled (and I mean that in a relatively sense since they have been solid, but not able to take that next step and win the conference) because the AAC is deeper and more athletic at the top than the MVC.

(10-02-2020 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I don’t think the departure of a team that has been the 7th or 8th best team in the AAC the past 5 years will affect recruiting that much. I can tell you as a UC fan I can’t think of one recruit over the past 7 years who came here because he wanted to play UConn. In fact, we had one of our best recruiting classes in a while last year after it was announced UConn was leaving.

As to Wichita, their brand is stronger than ever. The play on national TV all the time in the AAC, whereas they rarely did so in the MVC. They have struggled (and I mean that in a relatively sense since they have been solid, but not able to take that next step and win the conference) because the AAC is deeper and more athletic at the top than the MVC.

Penny Hardaway lamented the loss of UConn in the media. He did not say directly that he would miss using Husky AAC membership as a tool in his recruiting toolbox — but that was the inference.

Now, I do agree with you that AAC teams can recruit well with no UConn. I simply would rather have Husky membership to use as a recruiting element (the more "prestigious" your league, the more kids take note) than not. I mention this on the Memphis board and got lambasted. Then Hardaway made his point and ... basically, silence.

Agree fully regarding WSU's struggles being the result, in large part, due to the AAC being much better than the MVC.

This could be one of the better "one-two-punch Memphis and Cincinnati basketball seasons" in a while. I'm quietly excited.

I look at it this way - with all of these candidates, which school best provides value to their respective conference is they were in a "down" period, finishing in dead-last in their top sport (football or basketball), and not contributing at all the on-field/on-court success of the league.

For UConn, it is a public flagship university, a research university, a land grant university, is one of the top public schools in the country, and is a top-65 institution in the country. It added to the academic reputation to the collection of its new conference. it is also in the heart of the conference footprint, where its following is tremendous advantage to the conference tournament and to many of the conference schools, sharing history and associations to former versions of the conference.

Wichita State is ranked #298-#389 in National Universities by USNWR. It is somewhat in the heart of its conference, but its conference is very much spread out. Fan support, like UConn, is a plus (even in down/last-place year). Coastal Carolina is #45 in Regional Universities (South) by USNWR, and helped add another school between App State, Georgia State and Georgia Southern. Liberty. like WSU, is ranked #298-#389 in National Universities by USNWR. It expanded the footprint of the A-SUN, and added one of the league's largest schools.

In this regard, UConn is easily the best realignment move since 2015 - and it really isn't even close.

(10-02-2020 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I don’t think the departure of a team that has been the 7th or 8th best team in the AAC the past 5 years will affect recruiting that much. I can tell you as a UC fan I can’t think of one recruit over the past 7 years who came here because he wanted to play UConn. In fact, we had one of our best recruiting classes in a while last year after it was announced UConn was leaving.

As to Wichita, their brand is stronger than ever. The play on national TV all the time in the AAC, whereas they rarely did so in the MVC. They have struggled (and I mean that in a relatively sense since they have been solid, but not able to take that next step and win the conference) because the AAC is deeper and more athletic at the top than the MVC.

This tends to make the case that teams like Wichita were really overrated when they were in weaker conferences like the MVC. The MVC may have been a giant relative to many of the D-I hoops conferences. But Wichita had a pretty easy path to high rankings because voters tend to be lazy and look first to how many losses a school has. Then, in the short run, those inflated rankings help recruiting enough that the mid-major program breaks through in the NCAAT once in a while. Teams that are lucky enough to have one of those spurts when an opportunity arises in a better conference get their golden ticket before coming back down to earth.

(10-02-2020 11:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-02-2020 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I don’t think the departure of a team that has been the 7th or 8th best team in the AAC the past 5 years will affect recruiting that much. I can tell you as a UC fan I can’t think of one recruit over the past 7 years who came here because he wanted to play UConn. In fact, we had one of our best recruiting classes in a while last year after it was announced UConn was leaving.

As to Wichita, their brand is stronger than ever. The play on national TV all the time in the AAC, whereas they rarely did so in the MVC. They have struggled (and I mean that in a relatively sense since they have been solid, but not able to take that next step and win the conference) because the AAC is deeper and more athletic at the top than the MVC.

This tends to make the case that teams like Wichita were really overrated when they were in weaker conferences like the MVC. The MVC may have been a giant relative to many of the D-I hoops conferences. But Wichita had a pretty easy path to high rankings because voters tend to be lazy and look first to how many losses a school has. Then, in the short run, those inflated rankings help recruiting enough that the mid-major program breaks through in the NCAAT once in a while. Teams that are lucky enough to have one of those spurts when an opportunity arises in a better conference get their golden ticket before coming back down to earth.

It has more to do with WSU itself. WSU made 1 NCAA Tournament in 23 years (1989-2011) and was 22 games below .500 in MVC play cumulatively. It wasn't until 2014 that Wichita St rose above .500 for MVC games in a 25 year stretch (1989-2014).

So WSU went on a 5-year rapid fire spurt, but then started to regress to the mean.

Remember, in those 5 years (2013-2017), they won 10 games in the NCAA Tournament, so their tournament performance matched their rankings. They've won 0 since joining the AAC.

The answer is WSU had 2 All-Americans (Vanvleet, Baker) for 4 years (2013-2016) accounting for 9 of those 10 wins. Once they graduated, WSU reverted back to their new normal.

It seems that based on all the responses in this thread, collectively, the "ranking" would be:

1. UConn to the BE

2. Wichita to the AAC

3. Coastal Carolina to the Belt

That would be my ranking.