RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-05-2020 09:15 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:
(10-05-2020 08:23 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Another factor for why Louisville and Cincinnati didn’t get membership is that I don’t think Texas wanted to dilute their share of control on conference matters. Even if the math worked out to where the Big 12 schools would break even, Texas didn’t want 2 more schools that could potentially vote against them on conference matters.
When you consider that up until 2016 the BXII has a pro-rata clause in their media contract that would have forced the networks to pay any added member equal to the teams already in the league, it defeats the argument those two teams would have forced the other schools to take a pay cut.
I think what you say holds weight, but I think bigger issue is long-standing bias against schools with Louisville’s and Cincinnati’s profile.
Partly agree. There is an incorrect assumption that athletic and financial considerations are all that matter...in reality, Louisville and Cincinnati stack-up relatively well in terms of those metrics. Other variables in membership decisions could be geography & cultural cohesion, academic profile and conference dynamics.
The original B12 (c 1996-2010) had a bad reputation with lots of internal friction. Four original members jumped ship to other conferences. It’s easier to stabilize the conference with fewer members...although it does make the 8 schools who generate less value more dependent on UT-Austin and OU.
The new B12 was not obsessed with academic credentials...so the academic profiles of Louisville and Cincinnati were within the general parameters of B12 membership. The problem was likely conference dynamics...with some trepidation about geographic & cultural cohesion. When the Detroit Pistons traded away one of their best players, Chuck Daly explained the Adrian Dantley trade as “addition by subtraction” (a few years later, the team won back-to-back championships)...It’s possible that a 10 member B12 conference is healthier than a 12 member conference.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-05-2020 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote: Please go on, it's not often that we are able to be able to learn from a realignment Guru such as yourself.
It seems as if the A&M folks have a different take on the renewal of the Texas/A&M rivalry. Enjoy!
UNBELIEVEABLE.....you never learn do you. FYI that is a joke about Texas put out by Texas A&M.
You jump from one thing to another posting garbage. You still know nothing about Texas or the Big12 for that matter. Your posts prove that. You said if the Big12 folds Texas would go to the ACC. I asked you to explain that twice and you still have not answered the question, because you can't.
Discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time. You act like a troll.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-05-2020 02:59 PM)texoma Wrote:
(10-05-2020 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote: Please go on, it's not often that we are able to be able to learn from a realignment Guru such as yourself.
It seems as if the A&M folks have a different take on the renewal of the Texas/A&M rivalry. Enjoy!
UNBELIEVEABLE.....you never learn do you. FYI that is a joke about Texas put out by Texas A&M.
You jump from one thing to another posting garbage. You still know nothing about Texas or the Big12 for that matter. Your posts prove that. You said if the Big12 folds Texas would go to the ACC. I asked you to explain that twice and you still have not answered the question, because you can't.
Discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time. You act like a troll.
A Joke? of course it's a joke and Texas is the butt.
Texas cancelled the series and now, Texas seems to be the school begging to get the game back.
Take your pick. They all say the same thing: Texas keeps asking; A&M keeps saying...I don't think so.
Sounds as if Texas is starting to rue their decision to end the series, while A&M is happy to be in the bosom of the SEC.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-05-2020 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:
(10-05-2020 02:59 PM)texoma Wrote:
(10-05-2020 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote: Please go on, it's not often that we are able to be able to learn from a realignment Guru such as yourself.
It seems as if the A&M folks have a different take on the renewal of the Texas/A&M rivalry. Enjoy!
UNBELIEVEABLE.....you never learn do you. FYI that is a joke about Texas put out by Texas A&M.
You jump from one thing to another posting garbage. You still know nothing about Texas or the Big12 for that matter. Your posts prove that. You said if the Big12 folds Texas would go to the ACC. I asked you to explain that twice and you still have not answered the question, because you can't.
Discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time. You act like a troll.
A Joke? of course it's a joke and Texas is the butt.
Texas cancelled the series and now, Texas seems to be the school begging to get the game back.
Take your pick. They all say the same thing: Texas keeps asking; A&M keeps saying...I don't think so.
Sounds as if Texas is starting to rue their decision to end the series, while A&M is happy to be in the bosom of the SEC.
I know all about that. It was your pumping Texas scheduling Arkansas that I was ridiculing since Texas had been trying for over ten years to get out of a return game they owe Arkansas.
You still have not explained how if the Big12 folds Texas will be in the ACC.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
Even if Oklahoma left and took Oklahoma St or Kansas with them I could still see Texas staying in the Big 12 and the departed schools being replaced by Houston and Cincinnati.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(09-30-2020 05:22 AM)XLance Wrote: There are several scenarios where ESPN could shift multiple schools around if they can get complete control of the Big 12.
One such scenario would involve moving TCU to the SEC (2nd Texas presence, DFW market) with Missouri moving to the Big 12 along with Louisville from the ACC and Cincinnati from the AAC. Notre Dame then slides into a permanent home in the ACC.
SEC=14
ACC=14
Big 12=12.
Always trying to pawn off Louisville XLance....
Not that I wouldn't rather have a 14 team conference with ND than Louisville... but Louisville is not leaving the ACC unless the ACC is decimated and they have a better option.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-05-2020 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:
(10-05-2020 02:59 PM)texoma Wrote:
(10-05-2020 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote: Please go on, it's not often that we are able to be able to learn from a realignment Guru such as yourself.
It seems as if the A&M folks have a different take on the renewal of the Texas/A&M rivalry. Enjoy!
UNBELIEVEABLE.....you never learn do you. FYI that is a joke about Texas put out by Texas A&M.
You jump from one thing to another posting garbage. You still know nothing about Texas or the Big12 for that matter. Your posts prove that. You said if the Big12 folds Texas would go to the ACC. I asked you to explain that twice and you still have not answered the question, because you can't.
Discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time. You act like a troll.
A Joke? of course it's a joke and Texas is the butt.
Texas cancelled the series and now, Texas seems to be the school begging to get the game back.
Take your pick. They all say the same thing: Texas keeps asking; A&M keeps saying...I don't think so.
Sounds as if Texas is starting to rue their decision to end the series, while A&M is happy to be in the bosom of the SEC.
LOL Texas asks because the fans and alumni ask for it.. aggy alumns and fans ask for it too.. Hell they did a poll with current aggy students and they were FOR playing UT again.
Texas is doing what the base asks of them, aggy declines, and they move on.. it's not "rueing" it's decision.. Aggy enjoys have justification on why it's mediocre now, Texas just has to own why it sucks for the past decade.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 08:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote: BTW people serious about UT playing in the ACC?!?
Agreed. I think Texas in the ACC with a ND deal is a terrible fit. If Texas goes independent in football their Olympic sports will likely stay in the Big 12.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 09:16 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:
(10-06-2020 08:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote: BTW people serious about UT playing in the ACC?!?
Agreed. I think Texas in the ACC with a ND deal is a terrible fit. If Texas goes independent in football their Olympic sports will likely stay in the Big 12.
Or the AAC, C-USA, etc. It doesn't benefit Texas nor the rest of the ACC to have only Texas's Olympic sports in the ACC if the ACC gets no Texas football games.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 09:16 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:
(10-06-2020 08:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote: BTW people serious about UT playing in the ACC?!?
Agreed. I think Texas in the ACC with a ND deal is a terrible fit. If Texas goes independent in football their Olympic sports will likely stay in the Big 12.
Exactly....Texas will never take a Notre Dame type deal with the ACC and have their Olympic sports on an island.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 10:31 AM)schmolik Wrote:
(10-06-2020 09:16 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:
(10-06-2020 08:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote: BTW people serious about UT playing in the ACC?!?
Agreed. I think Texas in the ACC with a ND deal is a terrible fit. If Texas goes independent in football their Olympic sports will likely stay in the Big 12.
Or the AAC, C-USA, etc. It doesn't benefit Texas nor the rest of the ACC to have only Texas's Olympic sports in the ACC if the ACC gets no Texas football games.
Texas is not going to downgrade their Olympic sports to a G5 conference like the AAC or CUSA.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
This is a video from February 2012 where Former Texas AD Deloss Dodds talks about Texas looking East. Not sure if the attitude of Texas leadership has changed since....
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 05:54 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: This is a video from February 2012 where Former Texas AD Deloss Dodds talks about Texas looking East. Not sure if the attitude of Texas leadership has changed since....
The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2020 06:34 PM by JRsec.)
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote: The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
And that wouldn’t be a problem for me. If Texas would have took the deal Louisville would be in The Big 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis. I don’t see a problem with that.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:
(10-06-2020 05:54 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: This is a video from February 2012 where Former Texas AD Deloss Dodds talks about Texas looking East. Not sure if the attitude of Texas leadership has changed since....
The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
The schools in the rumored story were allegedly Texas, Texas A&M and Kansas. The rumored story continues that it was A&M that balked at the move, Texas attempted to substitute Oklahoma in their stead and Duke put the kibosh on the Sooners.
Who knows if these stories are true, but other rumors indicate that the SEC got in A&M's ear, made promises, and sabotaged the deal.
It is certainly unclear as to whether any of these rumors are rooted in the truth.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2020 05:19 AM by XLance.)
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-07-2020 05:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote: The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
And that wouldn’t be a problem for me. If Texas would have took the deal Louisville would be in The Big 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis. I don’t see a problem with that.
Sorry, fellow Card, but that's a pretty minimally aspirational point of view....from a Cardinal perspective.
Have to disagree with you on that scenario.
I like the ACC territory much better than what would have been a weird Big XII territory with a super-low media contract.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-07-2020 06:44 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:
(10-07-2020 05:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote: The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
And that wouldn’t be a problem for me. If Texas would have took the deal Louisville would be in The Big 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis. I don’t see a problem with that.
Sorry, fellow Card, but that's a pretty minimally aspirational point of view....from a Cardinal perspective.
Have to disagree with you on that scenario.
I like the ACC territory much better than what would have been a weird Big XII territory with a super-low media contract.
No worries, few Louisville fans do.
Everyone talks about what The ACC gave up to take Louisville. I believe UofL gave up much of its history to join The ACC. I’m a football first guy. Beyond playing Florida State, Clemson and on occasion Miami, there is little to The ACC for me.
If Syracuse and Pittsburgh had stayed in The Big East / American I would have been just happy to see Louisville stay there. Necessity warranted the move, nothing more.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-07-2020 07:03 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-07-2020 06:44 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:
(10-07-2020 05:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote: The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
And that wouldn’t be a problem for me. If Texas would have took the deal Louisville would be in The Big 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis. I don’t see a problem with that.
Sorry, fellow Card, but that's a pretty minimally aspirational point of view....from a Cardinal perspective.
Have to disagree with you on that scenario.
I like the ACC territory much better than what would have been a weird Big XII territory with a super-low media contract.
No worries, few Louisville fans do.
Everyone talks about what The ACC gave up to take Louisville. I believe UofL gave up much of its history to join The ACC. I’m a football first guy. Beyond playing Florida State, Clemson and on occasion Miami, there is little to The ACC for me.
If Syracuse and Pittsburgh had stayed in The Big East / American I would have been just happy to see Louisville stay there. Necessity warranted the move, nothing more.
With the benefit of a retrospectoscope, I bet WVU, Syracuse and Pitt would have stayed as well. The money would have gotten better and all the schools could have figured out the football/basketball only drama.
RE: Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
(10-07-2020 07:03 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-07-2020 06:44 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:
(10-07-2020 05:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:
(10-06-2020 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote: The deal Deloss is referencing would have taken Texas and two others East to join with Notre Dame to form a more formidable ACC. It was allegedly nixed at the last moment by Duke, UNC, and UVa which led to Maryland's departure and Louisville's entrance. The deal had been in the works since late 2010. But you are dealing with Deloss. If he said he was looking East he may have been thinking West already. Nailing him down would be like trying to tack Jell o to a wall.
So my point here Jim is if this deal had gone through Louisville would not have gotten the ACC bid. Now the ACCN would have followed the next year if this move had happened, the payouts would have been much closer to that of the SEC, but the cost would have been Va Tech and N.C. State to the SEC to spread out the network footprints as much as possible. The alleged story is that Tobacco road dissed it when they figured out they would no longer have enough beholden votes to control the ACC.
Now from my point of view they were lucky to get Louisville who had a business model that should have schooled some of the old crowd in how to move forward and they would be wise to consider WVU. But Texas shall never pass this way again. It pissed off Dodds, Slive, and a lot of others besides Maryland. And it almost led to ESPN agreeing to F.S.U. and Clemson to the SEC as was announced on their crawler. But N.D. didn't like the make up as well without them so the SEC got full carriage from day 1 for the SECN as a consolation. And we did get our other two, Texas A&M and Missouri.
And that wouldn’t be a problem for me. If Texas would have took the deal Louisville would be in The Big 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis. I don’t see a problem with that.
Sorry, fellow Card, but that's a pretty minimally aspirational point of view....from a Cardinal perspective.
Have to disagree with you on that scenario.
I like the ACC territory much better than what would have been a weird Big XII territory with a super-low media contract.
No worries, few Louisville fans do.
Everyone talks about what The ACC gave up to take Louisville. I believe UofL gave up much of its history to join The ACC. I’m a football first guy. Beyond playing Florida State, Clemson and on occasion Miami, there is little to The ACC for me.
If Syracuse and Pittsburgh had stayed in The Big East / American I would have been just happy to see Louisville stay there. Necessity warranted the move, nothing more.
Louisville has given up much of its 'history' and its rivals every time it "moved on up". The upwardly moving 'vagabond' with great athletics leadership.
KIAC ... MVC ... Independent ... Metro ... C-USA ... Big East ... American ... ACC
The only teams in the ACC that Louisville has minimal history with are: Wake, UNC, Duke, NC State, Virginia, Boston College and Clemson.
The Cards have a considerable history with GT, Miami, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Notre Dame and Syracuse.
What Louisville has lost through the years: Mainly Cincinnati and Memphis. Also West Virginia. South Carolina. Tulane. East Carolina. TCU. Houston. Army. Rutgers. USF.
/
Which P5 will see a member depart the soonest?
