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UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #281
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 07:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-24-2020 07:35 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The difference is 5 games ago heading into the SMU game UC benched multi year starters along the interior OL for a true freshman Center and backup guards who are just flat out better linemen. Line play has been really good since then. Running game opened up and Ridder has had time in the pocket to relax and let things slow down.

Yep...oddly enough, High FBS D1 scholarships quarterbacks tend to be pretty decent when they don't have guys blowing up the pocket from the middle every play. You'll notice, a lot less of Ridder's throws have been roll outs this year...he's either stepping up, where he is able to develop more power and throw off of consistent feet, or standing in a composed pocket.

When the history of the 2020 season is written, improvements across the offensive line may well be the tipping point in going from a very good 2019 team to a great one this season. We saw a vastly improved Ridder in Birmingham; rested and healed. But more importantly, he was protected with the insertion of Hudson on the line.

Personnel changes have turned into game changers this year. And that in no way minimizes the achievements of Ridder himself.

When he was forced into action at the Rose Bowl, who could have imagined a road win at UCLA? Better still, a three year run that may be the best ever in UC football history. He's faced withering criticism at times but he's been the constant under center for almost all of 30 wins and he's far from finished.
 
11-24-2020 08:09 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
I had to shake my head and laugh...Cooper came in in the 2nd half against ECU to replace O’Quinn when all the starters sat...Ben Bryant throws an incredible pass down the right sideline on the 1st or second play of the series...comes back because, yep...Cooper grabbed his guy and mugged him for no reason. Scratch a big pickup and get behind down and distance again. Was the kind of stuff we were forced to overcome way too often before they changed personnel.

OL has been really good since the change 5 games ago. Ridder took a bad rap because those multi year starters on the interior OL had him hurrying passes every play with no pocket to step up in.
 
11-24-2020 08:13 AM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #283
UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
Ridder has also improved tremendously on the read and it's allowed them to roll out that RPO with Lenny T or Whyle flanking out wide. Those two guys are damn near unstoppable once they get off the line.

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11-24-2020 08:58 AM
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bearcatdp Offline
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Post: #284
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
Probably could have changed the title of this thread by adding "There is no" at the beginning. Bryant obviously has skill but, boy, how Ridder has grown this year. Let's hope he maintains it over the last 4 (5?) games.
 
11-24-2020 09:17 AM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #285
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 08:58 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Ridder has also improved tremendously on the read and it's allowed them to roll out that RPO with Lenny T or Whyle flanking out wide. Those two guys are damn near unstoppable once they get off the line.

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Really, the biggest advantage to having a solid pocket is Des' ability to take advantage of the middle of the field. The RPO game was always there, but not having point of engagement protection in the middle can kill your outside read on plays like that (it's something my team struggled with this fall). I'm not so sure he was making "bad" reads, as much as he was being forced to make "quick" reads, which in an RPO game almost always ends up being the first read.

If you look at his target share prior to SMU, it was all outside the hashes, either comebacks, fades, or swings, because he had to get the ball out quick OR the middle of the field was covered by LBs since pressure was able to be made by the DL up the middle. Now that teams HAVE to blitz us to even attempt to get to Des, that both opens up the middle of the field on crosses (where our TEs are really getting their yardage) and allows for more opportunities to scramble into the field instead of forcing Ridder to try to get around the defense. It truly is a testament in film form how important the interior line is to opening up the passing game.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020 09:27 AM by BearcatMan.)
11-24-2020 09:18 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #286
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
Absolutely.

Recall that the FCS team held Doaks to like 20 yards on a dozen carries. Army was winning the line of scrimmage a lot of that game. Smaller DLs were disrupting things in the middle way too often and teams were packing the line. I blamed Rider too often as well. His transformation once the interior line was fixed is not a mere coincidence. It allowed the playbook to change and has allowed much better spacing in the run and pass game. The RPO won't work if its a jailbreak up the middle more often than not. Those pockets now allow him to have time to not force/hurry throws, he can step up now and if its not there he can now run with interior space when needed.
 
11-24-2020 09:30 AM
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skylinecat Offline
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Post: #287
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-23-2020 11:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-23-2020 05:02 PM)C1ncy4Life Wrote:  
(11-23-2020 04:26 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Ridder has had 5 great games. If he has another season full of those maybe someone gives him a look. I still doubt it will happen, but who knows.

Yea, this also goes without saying, but I did say IF he continues playing like he has. I mean if he reverts back then of course he’s not getting drafted. If continues to play like the last few games though, he will get a look and likely get drafted based on his ceiling. It only takes one team to fall in love with his size, speed, arm strength and he will get drafted and has a shot at sticking around as a developmental QB.

It's kind of crazy to think about, but if Ridder returns...he may be on the Heisman shortlist with all of the people graduating/likely to declare.

Agreed. Bovada has Trask, Fields, Lawrence, Jones, Wilson, Najee Harris, Devonta Smith, D'Eriq King, and Ian Book as their favorites. The only one they have listed that will be back next season is Spencer Rattler. I think Ridder would be on the absolute short list, especially if we win a New Years Day Bowl against Florida or Texas A&M. I know we've talked about it before, but being the first and only Heisman Trophy winner from Cincinnati is worth its weight in gold compared to 3 years on the practice squad with the Titans.
 
11-24-2020 10:16 AM
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Post: #288
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
VOTE
DES RIDDER
FOR
DAVEY O´BRIEN AWARD
2020


Ridder is in the Great Eight finalists for the Davey O´Brien Award
which is the best QB in college football.
The fan voting closed November 22, but fans voted for three cycles for the O´Brien Award, the only major college award that fans can vote for.
The Procedure was
1. Register at voteobrien.org
2. You can vote once a day.
3. The fan´s vote is 5% of the overall vote.
4. The vote goes in three cycles, right now the vote is down to the Great Eight.
5. You can vote for Ben Bryant if you want to. LOL
6. I´m a Ben Bryant fan. I want Bearcats to play Wisconsin sometime.
Bryant got screwed over by Wisky. He was committed to the Badgers for five months, and then a new UW QB coach dropped Bryant, who is from Chicago. The new QB coach wanted Cincy St Xavier QB Chase Wolf instead. I like Bryant over Wolf any day of the week. Especially Saturday, but also Friday and Thursday, whatever.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020 11:48 AM by CoachFickFan.)
11-24-2020 11:42 AM
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Post: #289
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 11:42 AM)CoachFickFan Wrote:  VOTE
DES RIDDER
FOR
DAVEY O´BRIEN AWARD
2020


Ridder is in the Great Eight finalists for the Davey O´Brien Award
which is the best QB in college football.
The fan voting closed November 22, but fans voted for three cycles for the O´Brien Award, the only major college award that fans can vote for.
The Procedure was
1. Register at voteobrien.org
2. You can vote once a day.
3. The fan´s vote is 5% of the overall vote.
4. The vote goes in three cycles, right now the vote is down to the Great Eight.
5. You can vote for Ben Bryant if you want to. LOL
6. I´m a Ben Bryant fan. I want Bearcats to play Wisconsin sometime.
Bryant got screwed over by Wisky. He was committed to the Badgers for five months, and then a new UW QB coach dropped Bryant, who is from Chicago. The new QB coach wanted Cincy St Xavier QB Chase Wolf instead. I like Bryant over Wolf any day of the week. Especially Saturday, but also Friday and Thursday, whatever.

The Fan Vote will be instituting a major change in its format in 2020. This year, fans will vote via three social media platforms—Instagram, Twitter and Facebook—and the top vote getter on each platform will each receive the equivalent of two additional committee member ballots for that voting period.
https://daveyobrienaward.org/davey-obrie...rocedures/
 
11-24-2020 11:51 AM
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C1ncy4Life Offline
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Post: #290
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 07:35 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The difference is 5 games ago heading into the SMU game UC benched multi year starters along the interior OL for a true freshman Center and backup guards who are just flat out better linemen. Line play has been really good since then. Running game opened up and Ridder has had time in the pocket to relax and let things slow down.

That’s probably at least part of it, but during the first few games this season there were plenty of plays where he had all day and still missed by wide margins.

That said, it’s completely possible it was a mental thing because of not trusting the OL with those 2 playing. Hard to quantify, but he is definitely hitting those throws with a higher frequency now.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020 02:55 PM by C1ncy4Life.)
11-24-2020 02:52 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #291
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 11:51 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(11-24-2020 11:42 AM)CoachFickFan Wrote:  VOTE
DES RIDDER
FOR
DAVEY O´BRIEN AWARD
2020


Ridder is in the Great Eight finalists for the Davey O´Brien Award
which is the best QB in college football.
The fan voting closed November 22, but fans voted for three cycles for the O´Brien Award, the only major college award that fans can vote for.
The Procedure was
1. Register at voteobrien.org
2. You can vote once a day.
3. The fan´s vote is 5% of the overall vote.
4. The vote goes in three cycles, right now the vote is down to the Great Eight.
5. You can vote for Ben Bryant if you want to. LOL
6. I´m a Ben Bryant fan. I want Bearcats to play Wisconsin sometime.
Bryant got screwed over by Wisky. He was committed to the Badgers for five months, and then a new UW QB coach dropped Bryant, who is from Chicago. The new QB coach wanted Cincy St Xavier QB Chase Wolf instead. I like Bryant over Wolf any day of the week. Especially Saturday, but also Friday and Thursday, whatever.

The Fan Vote will be instituting a major change in its format in 2020. This year, fans will vote via three social media platforms—Instagram, Twitter and Facebook—and the top vote getter on each platform will each receive the equivalent of two additional committee member ballots for that voting period.
https://daveyobrienaward.org/davey-obrie...rocedures/

There were 59 QBs on the watch list...how friggin lazy is that? 03-lmfao
 
11-24-2020 03:14 PM
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ladeda Offline
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Post: #292
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I had to shake my head and laugh...Cooper came in in the 2nd half against ECU to replace O’Quinn when all the starters sat...Ben Bryant throws an incredible pass down the right sideline on the 1st or second play of the series...comes back because, yep...Cooper grabbed his guy and mugged him for no reason. Scratch a big pickup and get behind down and distance again. Was the kind of stuff we were forced to overcome way too often before they changed personnel.

OL has been really good since the change 5 games ago. Ridder took a bad rap because those multi year starters on the interior OL had him hurrying passes every play with no pocket to step up in.

As you and others have said-- this is really the biggest difference compared to earlier this year and last year. UC made 2 changes on the line this year, and also get a full year of Hudson who is a massive upgrade over Metz last year.

This is from PFF. (Free article) "The worry with Ridder is that he’s been pretty much the same guy he was since he stepped onto the field his freshman year. His overall grade by season went from 74.2 in 2018 to 72.2 in 2019 to 73.8 this season. He’ll alternate those beautiful tosses with wide-open whiffs. As a redshirt junior, though, Ridder is no lock to declare and has the tools to push himself into Round 1 if were he to put it all together in 2021."


One could say the real and only difference between this year and last year is the much improved play on the O-Line. How much of Ridder's improvement running the ball this year is due to the improved O-Line? IDK. HIs passing #'s are similar this year to his freshman year, but the biggest improvement is on the ground--- 7.9 yards per carry vs 4.5. He is getting big gains and moving the chains and scoring TD's.

Also, I will say that indirectly another benefit of the O-Line is the much fewer false start penalties compared to last year. Metz was good for 1-3 per game depending on how good the rusher he was up against. So many penalties last year halted drives by putting UC in 1st and 15's or 2nd/3rd and long.

And when you factor in that the D has been even more dominant this year-- that has allowed UC to have much better field position on a regular basis.

I don't know. Until Ridder can consistently pass the ball 20 yards + downfield, I will have my question marks. I do feel like he has the best team around him in the past 3 years (on both sides of the ball.) I see him coming back next year because everyone is coming back except Doaks and Harper and we have a darn good replacement for Doaks in Ford. If Ridder works on his 20+ yard throws during the offseason, then maybe he can be a late round pick. At the end of the day, in the NFL, you need to be able to pass the ball. Running is overrated. (See Brees, Brady, Manning etc etc.)
 
11-24-2020 03:33 PM
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Bruce Monnin Online
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Post: #293
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
I still fear Ridder if we run into an Ohio State type team that can stuff the run but is weak in the secondary. I have yet seen no proof that Des could make the necessary deep throws.

But we may not see such a team all season. And if so, I am good with Ridder as long as he runs about 10 times in the game and uses the threat of the run to make that roll out pass to Whyle and similar plays work.
 
11-24-2020 04:37 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #294
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
He’s not a Mac Jones type but not many are.
 
11-24-2020 04:40 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #295
RE: UC QB situation (Ridder v Bryant)
(11-24-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  
(11-24-2020 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I had to shake my head and laugh...Cooper came in in the 2nd half against ECU to replace O’Quinn when all the starters sat...Ben Bryant throws an incredible pass down the right sideline on the 1st or second play of the series...comes back because, yep...Cooper grabbed his guy and mugged him for no reason. Scratch a big pickup and get behind down and distance again. Was the kind of stuff we were forced to overcome way too often before they changed personnel.

OL has been really good since the change 5 games ago. Ridder took a bad rap because those multi year starters on the interior OL had him hurrying passes every play with no pocket to step up in.

As you and others have said-- this is really the biggest difference compared to earlier this year and last year. UC made 2 changes on the line this year, and also get a full year of Hudson who is a massive upgrade over Metz last year.

This is from PFF. (Free article) "The worry with Ridder is that he’s been pretty much the same guy he was since he stepped onto the field his freshman year. His overall grade by season went from 74.2 in 2018 to 72.2 in 2019 to 73.8 this season. He’ll alternate those beautiful tosses with wide-open whiffs. As a redshirt junior, though, Ridder is no lock to declare and has the tools to push himself into Round 1 if were he to put it all together in 2021."


One could say the real and only difference between this year and last year is the much improved play on the O-Line. How much of Ridder's improvement running the ball this year is due to the improved O-Line? IDK. HIs passing #'s are similar this year to his freshman year, but the biggest improvement is on the ground--- 7.9 yards per carry vs 4.5. He is getting big gains and moving the chains and scoring TD's.

Also, I will say that indirectly another benefit of the O-Line is the much fewer false start penalties compared to last year. Metz was good for 1-3 per game depending on how good the rusher he was up against. So many penalties last year halted drives by putting UC in 1st and 15's or 2nd/3rd and long.

And when you factor in that the D has been even more dominant this year-- that has allowed UC to have much better field position on a regular basis.

I don't know. Until Ridder can consistently pass the ball 20 yards + downfield, I will have my question marks. I do feel like he has the best team around him in the past 3 years (on both sides of the ball.) I see him coming back next year because everyone is coming back except Doaks and Harper and we have a darn good replacement for Doaks in Ford. If Ridder works on his 20+ yard throws during the offseason, then maybe he can be a late round pick. At the end of the day, in the NFL, you need to be able to pass the ball. Running is overrated. (See Brees, Brady, Manning etc etc.)

Of the 5 spots on last year’s OL 3 are now backups (Metz, Cooper and Robinson). Give me guys who learned the position well and were taught good habits and how to block before they got to campus all day long over guys who can lift a car.

Since they made the switch before SMU, comparing last year to this year it’s an improvement at every position, IMO.

Hudson > Ferguson
O’Quinn > Cooper
Renfro > Robinson
McConnel > Hockey Guy
Harper > Metz

Always good to reward guys who deserve it when they perform when the lights go on.
 
11-24-2020 05:18 PM
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