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Other games (like we have one), 9/26
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-22-2020 11:12 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(11-22-2020 10:32 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 08:31 PM)GaryMatthews Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 06:46 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I didn’t realize Abilene Christian was able to schedule a game with UVA until I just saw the ticker scoreboard. Oof, that hurts a little more.
It is impossible to justify JMU forfeiting the Fall. It is no wonder that Alger is not returning communication from Alumni.
JMU tried to schedule UVA and quite a few other regional FBS teams but had no takers

Your statement fails to account for 2 things.
1- JMU already had a contracted game with FBS UNC
2- JMU stopped trying on August 7th four weeks before the season began. Of course you’ve noticed how many games have been rescheduled and opponents swapped due to COVID in the last 3 1/2 months. 70+ games have been cancelled/posptponed creating all kinds of opportunity to turn a “no” into a “yes”.

Those programs that were playing scooped up the scheduling openings while JMU sat on the sidelines and forfeited the Fall.

It sounds like you are suggesting that JMU should have gone ahead with, at best, one game this fall and then offered itself up to any and all teams that had a game cancelled. Am I understanding that correctly?

No, you aren’t understanding the full picture I was trying to discuss and I didn’t supply enough info. At the time JMU cancelled the season, Bourne started he had 4 to 6 games lined up.
2 teams who were Already contracted with JMU played this Fall, UNC And Chattanooga. So JMU had a home game and an away game in the bag plus whatever Bourne had accumulated as per his statement. With the CAA’s announcement That the Spring conference season would Only be 6 games, JMU could have played up to 5 OOC games and remained eligible to play in the Spring.
Who knows what JMU could have procured in addition to UNC and Chattanooga? What we can agree on is that there was a ton of opportunity with last minute COVID cancellations and teams begging for an opponent (sometimes just to ensure they got a full payout for a TV game and didn’t have to prorate their contract due to reduced inventory).
11-23-2020 07:08 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-23-2020 07:08 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  
(11-22-2020 11:12 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(11-22-2020 10:32 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 08:31 PM)GaryMatthews Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 06:46 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I didn’t realize Abilene Christian was able to schedule a game with UVA until I just saw the ticker scoreboard. Oof, that hurts a little more.
It is impossible to justify JMU forfeiting the Fall. It is no wonder that Alger is not returning communication from Alumni.
JMU tried to schedule UVA and quite a few other regional FBS teams but had no takers

Your statement fails to account for 2 things.
1- JMU already had a contracted game with FBS UNC
2- JMU stopped trying on August 7th four weeks before the season began. Of course you’ve noticed how many games have been rescheduled and opponents swapped due to COVID in the last 3 1/2 months. 70+ games have been cancelled/posptponed creating all kinds of opportunity to turn a “no” into a “yes”.

Those programs that were playing scooped up the scheduling openings while JMU sat on the sidelines and forfeited the Fall.

It sounds like you are suggesting that JMU should have gone ahead with, at best, one game this fall and then offered itself up to any and all teams that had a game cancelled. Am I understanding that correctly?

No, you aren’t understanding the full picture I was trying to discuss and I didn’t supply enough info. At the time JMU cancelled the season, Bourne started he had 4 to 6 games lined up.
2 teams who were Already contracted with JMU played this Fall, UNC And Chattanooga. So JMU had a home game and an away game in the bag plus whatever Bourne had accumulated as per his statement. With the CAA’s announcement That the Spring conference season would Only be 6 games, JMU could have played up to 5 OOC games and remained eligible to play in the Spring.
Who knows what JMU could have procured in addition to UNC and Chattanooga? What we can agree on is that there was a ton of opportunity with last minute COVID cancellations and teams begging for an opponent (sometimes just to ensure they got a full payout for a TV game and didn’t have to prorate their contract due to reduced inventory).

Hindsight is 20/20. The MAC, PAC 12 and Big 10 all made the same decision along with several independent FBS schools. JMU could not have known those schools would change their positions two months later. I honestly don’t think the benefits are as great as you feel they are.
11-23-2020 07:49 PM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
Indeed those conferences changed their mind and joined the majority of FBS schools after the season started. And JMU didn’t have any of those conference’s teams on their Scheduling radar as per Bourne’s statement. There were some good discussions on this Topic at the time of the season cancellation announcement that were not hindsight though.

Everyone had the same vantage point as JMU at the time. Many have made it work. Perhaps Football is more important to them?

Why do I think it is pretty important? JMU is losing ground by not playing. And who knows if the Spring will even be played? We could be witnessing a forfeit of the Fall and then a cancellation of the Spring as we know the majority of FCS programs are not well funded and prone to folding much faster than JMU would.
What we do know is that if the Spring is played, JMU has lost 3 of 11 regular season games due to timeline restrictions only allowing 8. Plus 2 of those 8 are Uninteresting OOC creampuffs in Robert Morris & Morehead State. I know you don’t like those mismatch games either. 03-puke

I didn’t and I don’t see any downside if JMU had played some games in the Fall. All upside.

I don’t follow recruiting much, but I do wonder how This cycle of recruits will view Programs that are playing and in the public eye vs JMU that is not playing. Some High school kids make college decisions On the shallowest of reasons. I guess that plays out when we have the 2 upcoming signing days in December and February.
11-23-2020 08:34 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-23-2020 08:34 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Indeed those conferences changed their mind and joined the majority of FBS schools after the season started. And JMU didn’t have any of those conference’s teams on their Scheduling radar as per Bourne’s statement. There were some good discussions on this Topic at the time of the season cancellation announcement that were not hindsight though.

Everyone had the same vantage point as JMU at the time. Many have made it work. Perhaps Football is more important to them?

Why do I think it is pretty important? JMU is losing ground by not playing. And who knows if the Spring will even be played? We could be witnessing a forfeit of the Fall and then a cancellation of the Spring as we know the majority of FCS programs are not well funded and prone to folding much faster than JMU would.
What we do know is that if the Spring is played, JMU has lost 3 of 11 regular season games due to timeline restrictions only allowing 8. Plus 2 of those 8 are Uninteresting OOC creampuffs in Robert Morris & Morehead State. I know you don’t like those mismatch games either. 03-puke

I didn’t and I don’t see any downside if JMU had played some games in the Fall. All upside.

I don’t follow recruiting much, but I do wonder how This cycle of recruits will view Programs that are playing and in the public eye vs JMU that is not playing. Some High school kids make college decisions On the shallowest of reasons. I guess that plays out when we have the 2 upcoming signing days in December and February.

I understand your position but don’t agree with it. Time will tell if recruiting is hurt. As of right now, none of the 13 recruits listed on Rivals has de-committed. Your making a prediction not basing an opinion on fact.

As far as cancellation risks go, Charlotte chose to play and has had more games cancelled than played so there are cancellation risks with both fall and spring seasons. Some programs have been more fortunate than others in that regard.

If football isn’t played in the spring, the overwhelming majority will blame it on a once in a 100 year pandemic not an incompetent administration.
11-24-2020 12:14 AM
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AssyrianDuke Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-23-2020 07:08 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  No, you aren’t understanding the full picture I was trying to discuss and I didn’t supply enough info. At the time JMU cancelled the season, Bourne started he had 4 to 6 games lined up.
2 teams who were Already contracted with JMU played this Fall, UNC And Chattanooga. So JMU had a home game and an away game in the bag plus whatever Bourne had accumulated as per his statement. With the CAA’s announcement That the Spring conference season would Only be 6 games, JMU could have played up to 5 OOC games and remained eligible to play in the Spring.
Who knows what JMU could have procured in addition to UNC and Chattanooga? What we can agree on is that there was a ton of opportunity with last minute COVID cancellations and teams begging for an opponent (sometimes just to ensure they got a full payout for a TV game and didn’t have to prorate their contract due to reduced inventory).

Removing some of the quotes for space concerns.

That makes a lot more sense, thanks for explaining it further. I am not sure who those teams were and if it were a locked in deal that we had those 4-6 games. Feels like if we had it set in stone with a contract about to be signed, we could actually pin down a number, but I don't have the quote on hand. Again, if you or anyone wants the emails from JMU relating to scheduling attempts, I'd be more than happy to send them.
11-24-2020 12:52 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
These are the schools in FCS who have played multiple games (thus far) this Fall:

Big South: Campbell (4), North Alabama (4)
Missouri Valley: Missouri State (3)
Ohio Valley: Jacksonville State (4), Eastern Kentucky (9), Austin Peay (3)
Southern: Western Carolina (2), Mercer (3), Citadel (4)
Southland: Stephen Austin (10) Central Arkansas (9), Houston Baptist (4), Abilene Christian (6)

Based on the Foia JMU was in communication with Stephen Austin, Campbell, Austin Peay, Western Carolina, and I may be missing someone else from this group. Chattanooga was on the schedule and played one game in Fall- I wonder if they would have played another?

Could JMU have pushed to create a schedule from the above group? Sure. Is JMU missing out by not having done so? That’s debatable. If you dig deeper on some of these schedules it’s a mix of D2 cupcakes and road games at FBS. Stephen Austin reached out do you think they would have played in Harrisonburg or would they have wanted JMU to travel to Texas?

One other note- I’m not sure if at the time that JMU pulled the plug if there was complete clarity on how many games teams would be allowed to play in Fall to still compete in Spring for a title. Some of the above teams made a decision to scrap Spring and play a full Fall slate of games. Others may have hedged. Could JMU have done the same I guess and if you are a Central Arkansas or Stephen Austin fan are you pleased with the Fall? Maybe you are.

I really don’t see the missed opportunity. I think some people are comparing JMUs missed opportunities for exposure to the opportunities and exposure that regional FBS schools are enjoying this season. These are two mutually exclusive gripes. As an FCS without conference support in Fall the season for JMU would have been a hodge podge and I’m not sure I see the upside for the student athletes or in terms of fan interest, competition on the field, exposure, brand, etc.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020 09:11 AM by NJDuke97.)
11-24-2020 09:06 AM
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Post: #167
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-24-2020 09:06 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  These are the schools in FCS who have played multiple games (thus far) this Fall:

Big South: Campbell (4), North Alabama (4)
Missouri Valley: Missouri State (3)
Ohio Valley: Jacksonville State (4), Eastern Kentucky (9), Austin Peay (3)
Southern: Western Carolina (2), Mercer (3), Citadel (4)
Southland: Stephen Austin (10) Central Arkansas (9), Houston Baptist (4), Abilene Christian (6)

Based on the Foia JMU was in communication with Stephen Austin, Campbell, Austin Peay, Western Carolina, and I may be missing someone else from this group. Chattanooga was on the schedule and played one game in Fall- I wonder if they would have played another?

Could JMU have pushed to create a schedule from the above group? Sure. Is JMU missing out by not having done so? That’s debatable. If you dig deeper on some of these schedules it’s a mix of D2 cupcakes and road games at FBS. Stephen Austin reached out do you think they would have played in Harrisonburg or would they have wanted JMU to travel to Texas?

One other note- I’m not sure if at the time that JMU pulled the plug if there was complete clarity on how many games teams would be allowed to play in Fall to still compete in Spring for a title. Some of the above teams made a decision to scrap Spring and play a full Fall slate of games. Others may have hedged. Could JMU have done the same I guess and if you are a Central Arkansas or Stephen Austin fan are you pleased with the Fall? Maybe you are.

I really don’t see the missed opportunity. I think some people are comparing JMUs missed opportunities for exposure to the opportunities and exposure that regional FBS schools are enjoying this season. These are two mutually exclusive gripes. As an FCS without conference support in Fall the season for JMU would have been a hodge podge and I’m not sure I see the upside for the student athletes or in terms of fan interest, competition on the field, exposure, brand, etc.

I think you're spot on here. Yes there has been increased exposure for both the FCS schools that played and G5 schools, but that increase looks different for each. For FCS, it wasn't much of one. For G5s, it was a huge increase.

From the perspective of one who is in Texas with the FCS school that played the most games (SFA), I will say that they have gotten more football exposure than I've ever seen them get, but still it's really not that much and only an increase by default. They did manage to get on ESPN 2 once, but other than that and a few sportcenter mentions, it really wasn't that much exposure at all. I do think their fans are happy they played though. They don't have to worry about if a spring season will actually happen, they've taken care of it already. If I actually knew an SFA fan I'd ask lol.
11-24-2020 11:32 AM
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Post: #168
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
Good discussion points. I think JMU is much closer to a G5 program than the FCS schools who played (with the exception of North Dakota State who played and is the unquestioned King).
I don’t think anyone doubts JMU can compete with 75% of the FBS. WVU and NC State can attest in the past 2 years. I don’t think we should be comparing JMU to what other FCS schools decided to do. This is the giant purple monster who is leaps and bounds above the FCS.

Most FCS schools bailed so JMU’s opportunity was really with UNC, Chattanooga (contracted and a decent FCS opponent) and the 124 FBS schools that played.
Maybe they would have ended up with only 2 games in the Fall. I don’t know a player that would have turned down the chance to play games instead of being relegated to practice all Fall. What is the national Player opt out rate? 1% ? 5% ? Something really low I’m sure. These are college age males that want to play and they see their colleagues across the country playing. It really is unfair to them more than anyone else.
11-24-2020 09:39 PM
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Post: #169
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-24-2020 09:39 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Good discussion points. I think JMU is much closer to a G5 program than the FCS schools who played (with the exception of North Dakota State who played and is the unquestioned King).
I don’t think anyone doubts JMU can compete with 75% of the FBS. WVU and NC State can attest in the past 2 years. I don’t think we should be comparing JMU to what other FCS schools decided to do. This is the giant purple monster who is leaps and bounds above the FCS.

Most FCS schools bailed so JMU’s opportunity was really with UNC, Chattanooga (contracted and a decent FCS opponent) and the 124 FBS schools that played.
Maybe they would have ended up with only 2 games in the Fall. I don’t know a player that would have turned down the chance to play games instead of being relegated to practice all Fall. What is the national Player opt out rate? 1% ? 5% ? Something really low I’m sure. These are college age males that want to play and they see their colleagues across the country playing. It really is unfair to them more than anyone else.

Couldn't agree more. Anyone thinking otherwise is clearly an apologist for the administration and doesn't have an ounce of independent thinking. Furthermore, these same people are likely to change direction when competition is an obstacle in their way.
11-24-2020 09:59 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
This assumes that JMU could get games vs FBS regional teams (because travel during Covid and for cost reasons was clearly going to be a challenge). Have you reviewed the emails
As part of the Foia- I’m sure there were phone calls to go with it. Charlotte, Liberty, Uva, Temple, Army, others I’m missing. I guess you guys think the emails were just for JMU to cover themselves when their hardcore fans were upset that they weren’t playing in Fall after all.

Were you proposing that maybe JMU stay ready to add to the 1-2 games in Fall that they had contractually, maybe have the foresight to anticipate further cancellations and then after not having played a game for weeks (practicing and Covid testing all Along) jumped on short notice and travelled to a P5 to fill
In for a team who had to cancel? Probably not the best opportunity for JMU to show themselves as the purple monster in that setting.

I do think you could make a case that the game action however limited and against whomever could have benefited some freshmen or in key position battles like Qb but then again maybe the benefit is offset by an injury that takes a player out for Spring or some of the seniors with eligibility in Spring having tasted a few final games in Fall maybe have less motivation to stay at JMU for Spring and it creates more roster holes than the couple of transfers (who would have transferred anyway) did when they left.

I’m sorry I just don’t see the upside. I know JMU to be different than other FCS schools and have no doubt if we could have locked in 5-6 games vs FBS we would have fared well assuming a regular schedule with no complications but that wasn’t the case nor was that on the table for us.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020 10:21 PM by NJDuke97.)
11-24-2020 10:18 PM
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Post: #171
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
Cue the admin apologists declaring that our admin is awesome and scheduling is soooooooooooo difficult that it has killed three ADs already this year.

With the FCS label, it is indeed difficult, but not impossible, for JMU to schedule decent opponents. With the FBS label, it will be much easier.
11-25-2020 02:19 PM
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Post: #172
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
Cue Purple, Hartt, & DukemanX complaining that JMU doesn't do enough to put together an adequate athletic schedule
11-25-2020 06:00 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Other games (like we have one), 9/26
(11-25-2020 02:19 PM)Purple Wrote:  Cue the admin apologists declaring that our admin is awesome and scheduling is soooooooooooo difficult that it has killed three ADs already this year.

With the FCS label, it is indeed difficult, but not impossible, for JMU to schedule decent opponents. With the FBS label, it will be much easier.

Do you know any different? Seems like you are an arm chair AD/administrator to me without any real idea of the challenges.

I agree on the FBS impact on scheduling but we are talking about the present and specifically Fall 2020 scheduling without a ton of lead time during a pandemic. You “experts” make it sound so easy. I suspect it isn’t and it wasn’t. You say scheduling as an FBS program would be easier in part because the other FBS schools have less to lose if they lose to JMU. I agree. So with that in mind why is it so hard to believe that FBS programs weren’t eager to schedule FCS powerhouse JMU in the Fall in 2020? Hey maybe if we hung around long enough (like the overserved guy at the keg party) we’d have found a FBS team willing to have us fill in if there was a cancellation and they’d be less worried about losing to us because our team wouldn’t have played a game in a while. I just don’t see how that strategy serves the interests of JMU the student athlete and the fans.
11-25-2020 07:00 PM
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