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How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
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WMSportsBlog Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
I'm very surprised nothing like this came up with former coaches that were told/forced to leave. Whether it was Daly, Crispino, Laycock, or Shaver -- it now seems obvious that they all likely have similar stories.

How none of them have made this public before, not one, is interesting. I have a hard time believing Jimmye would want to retire before reaching his 40th season. That Shaver didn't go public with some quotes/his story is also hard to believe (maybe he's under an NDA with his contract still active); Crispino would also have interesting points (with strong ties to the College). We got to the point where we thought perhaps that sort of thing, the forced retirements/etc., simply didn't happen. People were simply out to get Huge.

Without any sort of public info available, aside from hearsay on boards such as these and on social media, we thought it premature to condemn Huge in any way -- and to give her the benefit of the doubt. Which we did up until this article.

Now we're not in the business of trying to bury someone like Huge professionally, but with the Daly story, we finally have information that seemingly corroborates the hearsay. It seems apparent that Huge should not have been given the benefit of the doubt. We're happy John was able to help shed some light for the W&M community.

Would love to hear the real story of Jimmye's retirement. Or Shaver's. Or one on Crispino's move too.
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2020 09:10 PM by WMSportsBlog.)
10-14-2020 09:08 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-14-2020 09:08 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  I'm very surprised nothing like this came up with former coaches that were told/forced to leave. Whether it was Daly, Crispino, Laycock, or Shaver -- it now seems obvious that they all likely have similar stories.

How none of them have made this public before, not one, is interesting. I have a hard time believing Jimmye would want to retire before reaching his 40th season. That Shaver didn't go public with some quotes/his story is also hard to believe (maybe he's under an NDA with his contract still active); Crispino would also have interesting points (with strong ties to the College). We got to the point where we thought perhaps that sort of thing, the forced retirements/etc., simply didn't happen. People were simply out to get Huge.

Without any sort of public info available, aside from hearsay on boards such as these and on social media, we thought it premature to condemn Huge in any way -- and to give her the benefit of the doubt. Which we did up until this article.

Now we're not in the business of trying to bury someone like Huge professionally, but with the Daly story, we finally have information that seemingly corroborates the hearsay. It seems apparent that Huge should not have been given the benefit of the doubt. We're happy John was able to help shed some light for the W&M community.

Would love to hear the real story of Jimmye's retirement. Or Shaver's. Or one on Crispino's move too.

You say "We got to the point where we thought perhaps that sort of thing, the forced retirements/etc., simply didn't happen.". The indicators were there all along but most chose not to see it. Others of us saw it for what it was right away and tried to alert the rest of you --- but most would not listen. I have no problem with Daly telling his story (I'm a fan) but I wish he had done it much sooner -- then maybe Huge could of been gone much sooner.

I think Crispino's case was different. Because of his tremendous success with absolutely meager resources and scholarships, I think that he was actually in demand. Princeton made him a good offer and Crispino, being a smart man, had already seen the writing on the wall in Williamsburg - and so he took it. He probably won't say anything in an article but his efforts on behalf of Save Tribe Swimming speak for themselves.
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2020 10:15 PM by Zorch.)
10-14-2020 10:09 PM
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62Indian Offline
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Post: #23
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(09-24-2020 07:32 PM)nj alum Wrote:  
(09-24-2020 06:13 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  
(09-24-2020 05:01 PM)nj alum Wrote:  Please stop. You’re destroying your own credibilty.

Don’t defend this. It can’t be defended.

I’ll keep it simple.

Some of us here saw the writing on the wall. Swimming saw the writing on the wall. They talked to the AD last year after seeing the writing on the wall. Swimming was mislead, and that’s being charitable.

Moving on to track. Did you listen to the female track athlete last night? Cutting men’s track weakens the woman’s track program.

Did you listen last night? Gymnastics, swimming, and track athletes from W&M provide the youth coaches for the greater W’burg area.

Rowe and Huge have abandoned W’burg and Virginia families in the quest for national glory ... ie ... forgetting the base / foundation.

This is an absolute (fill in the blank) and ALL sports will be collateral damage.

Let the smoke clear a little bit. The Tribe 7 has just begun to fight!

Where were we defending/where in the article did we say we agreed or disagreed? Nowhere.

It was a neutral-stance article that was not saying that we think it was the "right" decision to do so, just that through prior press releases and documents, the department seemed to have the writing on the wall.

Please stop getting so combative. Helps no one.

I didn’t read your article.

I was responding to your posting.

I’ll be blunt. There is no credibility left. There is no trust. It’s all over. It’s not a question of “if”, but of “when”.

Any timeline ... any report ... any study ... flawed. All done to provide cover. Nobody is buying it. Nobody ... no one from the 1960’s .... 2020’s .... academics .... sports nuts .... nobody .... universal condemnation except for some hold-outs.

To try to defend the decision, they had to release the financial data. Mismanagement is all over the released documents. That’s your story, not some artificial timeline created to give cover.

Stay away. Keep your powder dry.

Combative? Damn straight. I’ve given a lot back to this place, and to see it thrown away so quickly, and so casually, and so harmfully, yes, I’m combative.
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HEAR! HEAR! NJ
10-14-2020 10:49 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
In a truly professional manner, Crispino said that he didn't think there was anything more he could accomplish here given the (money) situation. That was public.

Shaver is still under a confidentiality clause if his employment agreement is like the ones that I've seen. So he can't really tell anything until he breaks his contract or it runs out.
10-15-2020 06:01 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
What did Laycock, Shaver, Daly, Dwyer, and Crispino all have in common?

They all built sports programs / fund-raising programs at W&M. Successful programs.

They were all shown the door.

Their programs are either (1) on the cutting block, (2) dismantled, and/or (3) ignored.

Zero continuity. Program “value” eviscerated. Overall athletics “value” in the tank.

A bomb going off inside William and Mary Hall couldn’t have done more damage.

Intercollegiate sports at W&M are drowning. About to go under. Perilous times.

Alumni and friends are fighting to save the institution from itself.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2020 06:07 AM by nj alum.)
10-15-2020 06:07 AM
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Post: #26
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 06:07 AM)nj alum Wrote:  What did Laycock, Shaver, Daly, Dwyer, and Crispino all have in common?

They all built sports programs / fund-raising programs at W&M. Successful programs.

They were all shown the door.

Their programs are either (1) on the cutting block, (2) dismantled, and/or (3) ignored.

Zero continuity. Program “value” eviscerated. Overall athletics “value” in the tank.

A bomb going off inside William and Mary Hall couldn’t have done more damage.

Intercollegiate sports at W&M are drowning. About to go under. Perilous times.

Alumni and friends are fighting to save the institution from itself.

If not for what look like fairly solid coaching hires for football and men's hoops, I would say that the real agenda for Huge's reign was to end athletics at W&M.
10-15-2020 06:46 AM
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Post: #27
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
For football, I get and appreciate what Laycock did for the program, but is it wrong to say it may have been time for him to exit? The team had 3 losing seasons in a row and was playing some abysmal football.
10-15-2020 08:46 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 08:46 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  For football, I get and appreciate what Laycock did for the program, but is it wrong to say it may have been time for him to exit? The team had 3 losing seasons in a row and was playing some abysmal football.

Not at all. The Shaver firing was also defensible, although not the manner in which it was done. However, Laycock hasn't gone on the record about what happened behind the scenes, and it's not hard to imagine it going similarly to how Daly's "retirement" went. That's why Huge had to go.
10-15-2020 09:48 AM
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Post: #29
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 08:46 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  For football, I get and appreciate what Laycock did for the program, but is it wrong to say it may have been time for him to exit? The team had 3 losing seasons in a row and was playing some abysmal football.

I have no problem with that point of view, but something about the manner in which it occurred led to the Gold Lot being a wasteland last year, a common theme throughout the entire Athletics Department during the last several years.

Donations are the lifeblood of the Athletics Department. It has gone horribly wrong.

It’s almost like Theodoric of York (aka Steve Martin) decided to do some bloodletting, and the next thing we know, in a scene switch, Julia Childs (aka Dan Akroyd) is bleeding out.

Tribe Athletics is bleeding out.
10-15-2020 10:29 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
What should have happed with Laycock is very simple. Work with him to determine his path forward. Keep him and his presence important to the program going forward. If it was one more year, sign a one year contract and announce it. If he wanted to be part of the effort to find a replacement, let him be involved. His big problem is that after Kevin Rogers left, he had no heir apparent. Of course signing a long term contract or coach for life was problematic, but she easily could have met him half way.

The Shaver firing was absurd. She knew that he had a great group of players coming back along with VV. The only kid who was looking at leaving was Audige. Huge held a captains only meeting in January to find out if players were looking at transferring, and she was told no. She had no risk in firing him if she thought the team would stay together. She was dead wrong. Plus she knew damn well that she had to pay him off given the ludacris contract that Driscoll gave him. She again could have had a simple conversation telling him that if he had a losing season next year or didn't advance to the NCAA tournament he would be dismissed. That didn't happen. She pushed the plunger and blew up the team. Fischer was a last resort. Seems like a great hire though, so I'll give credit for that, and maybe dark clouds to have a silver lining.

She wanted to hand pick the coaches for the sports that are most critical for her plan. Swanson wasn't a problem and seems to be building a solid program.
10-15-2020 10:32 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #31
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 10:32 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  What should have happed with Laycock is very simple. Work with him to determine his path forward. Keep him and his presence important to the program going forward. If it was one more year, sign a one year contract and announce it. If he wanted to be part of the effort to find a replacement, let him be involved. His big problem is that after Kevin Rogers left, he had no heir apparent. Of course signing a long term contract or coach for life was problematic, but she easily could have met him half way.

The Shaver firing was absurd. She knew that he had a great group of players coming back along with VV. The only kid who was looking at leaving was Audige. Huge held a captains only meeting in January to find out if players were looking at transferring, and she was told no. She had no risk in firing him if she thought the team would stay together. She was dead wrong. Plus she knew damn well that she had to pay him off given the ludacris contract that Driscoll gave him. She again could have had a simple conversation telling him that if he had a losing season next year or didn't advance to the NCAA tournament he would be dismissed. That didn't happen. She pushed the plunger and blew up the team. Fischer was a last resort. Seems like a great hire though, so I'll give credit for that, and maybe dark clouds to have a silver lining.

She wanted to hand pick the coaches for the sports that are most critical for her plan. Swanson wasn't a problem and seems to be building a solid program.

Thanks for this. I don't think anyone's ever examined the Shaver firing before.
10-15-2020 11:00 AM
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Post: #32
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 11:00 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(10-15-2020 10:32 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  What should have happed with Laycock is very simple. Work with him to determine his path forward. Keep him and his presence important to the program going forward. If it was one more year, sign a one year contract and announce it. If he wanted to be part of the effort to find a replacement, let him be involved. His big problem is that after Kevin Rogers left, he had no heir apparent. Of course signing a long term contract or coach for life was problematic, but she easily could have met him half way.

The Shaver firing was absurd. She knew that he had a great group of players coming back along with VV. The only kid who was looking at leaving was Audige. Huge held a captains only meeting in January to find out if players were looking at transferring, and she was told no. She had no risk in firing him if she thought the team would stay together. She was dead wrong. Plus she knew damn well that she had to pay him off given the ludacris contract that Driscoll gave him. She again could have had a simple conversation telling him that if he had a losing season next year or didn't advance to the NCAA tournament he would be dismissed. That didn't happen. She pushed the plunger and blew up the team. Fischer was a last resort. Seems like a great hire though, so I'll give credit for that, and maybe dark clouds to have a silver lining.

She wanted to hand pick the coaches for the sports that are most critical for her plan. Swanson wasn't a problem and seems to be building a solid program.

Thanks for this. I don't think anyone's ever examined the Shaver firing before.

Glad you could grasp my points. It's all about how she handled things. We agree on that.

In fairness, only two people really know what went down that day and they are both out of the picture. Maybe one will speak up.
10-15-2020 11:14 AM
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Tribal Offline
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How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
Shaver is still on the payroll. I don't think he'll discuss his dismissal, but if he ever does, look out. At this point, Huge is gone and her dream career is probably ruined, he's making a lot of money doing nothing, and there would be no real benefit in disclosing dirty laundry.

Laycock deserved the respect of hitting 40 years.



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10-15-2020 11:15 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 11:15 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Laycock deserved the respect of hitting 40 years.

If he got to 40, do we have Hollis Mathis right now?
10-15-2020 12:04 PM
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RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 12:04 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(10-15-2020 11:15 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Laycock deserved the respect of hitting 40 years.

If he got to 40, do we have Hollis Mathis right now?
Nope. You must have a point.

Are you saying it was good to let go a legend after 39 years for a player?

JL didn't have a lot of success at the end and may have been time for him to go. I strongly believe Samantha should've worked with him to see that he left on celebratory terms. Same with Shaver. Same with Daly. It's the bull in a china shop ways that rubbed so many the wrong way and eventually led to her own embarrassing departure. Zero understanding of W&M culture. Another disappointing season under JL wouldn't have killed us...it's not like we had a good record last season, anyway.

I like London and his staff. I like Fischer and his staff. I hope they, too, have legendary careers at W&M and leave on great terms.

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10-15-2020 12:20 PM
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Post: #36
RE: How Did We Get Here? A Timeline of Events. (Sports Cuts)
(10-15-2020 12:20 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(10-15-2020 12:04 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(10-15-2020 11:15 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Laycock deserved the respect of hitting 40 years.

If he got to 40, do we have Hollis Mathis right now?
Nope. You must have a point.

Are you saying it was good to let go a legend after 39 years for a player?

Of course not. I'm saying it was good to let go a legend after 39 years for all of the players. And the energy that came in with London, and all the other things.

(10-15-2020 12:20 PM)Tribal Wrote:  JL didn't have a lot of success at the end and may have been time for him to go. I strongly believe Samantha should've worked with him to see that he left on celebratory terms. Same with Shaver. Same with Daly. It's the bull in a china shop ways that rubbed so many the wrong way and eventually led to her own embarrassing departure. Zero understanding of W&M culture. Another disappointing season under JL wouldn't have killed us...it's not like we had a good record last season, anyway.

I like London and his staff. I like Fischer and his staff. I hope they, too, have legendary careers at W&M and leave on great terms.

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From my seat in the stands, Laycock's farewell tour seemed to be done right, aside from the big round number. With the information that's come out surrounding other moves, it's likely that she went about it the wrong way privately, but I don't think publicly it looked bad aside from wondering about not getting to the big round number. It looks worse in the light of how poorly all the other coach firings went. Completely anecdotally, the people I watched games with were clamoring for Laycock to retire his last few seasons, and when it was announced year 39 would be his last there was a sigh of relief that we could start appreciating Laycock's career in full again instead of just complaining about his most recent season.
10-15-2020 12:54 PM
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