Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Poll: 16th ACC member
This poll is closed.
Cincinnati 37.93% 33 37.93%
Houston 0% 0 0%
Navy (FB only) 6.90% 6 6.90%
TCU 0% 0 0%
Temple 1.15% 1 1.15%
UCF 11.49% 10 11.49%
UConn 9.20% 8 9.20%
West Virginia 33.33% 29 33.33%
Total 87 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Post Reply 
Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
Author Message
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,961
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 163
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #321
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-17-2020 01:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 11:52 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 10:30 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Do you ever wonder if the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over West Virginia as its 10th member?

They probably should have taken both, and one of USF or Cincy to get to 12.

But the B12 was mostly interested in keeping their media contract from being reopened due to dipping below 10 members.

This is a scenario I’ve often mulled over. Had someone in the Big 12 war room been adamant about a return to 12 then WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati all go to the Big 12, Rutgers goes to the Big Ten, and then UConn gets Maryland’s spot in the ACC. Only USF gets forced from the ranks of the big time—they go to C-USA along with 1 of Charlotte/ODU/LA Tech/UTSA.

Temple gets joined by UMass as MAC fb affiliates as originally planned.

The SBC looks something like:

UNT, ULL, ULM, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, FAU, FIU + non-fb UALR

Then you got to play the guessing game with the WAC schools: Idaho, NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech. Do they rebuild or do all/some get absorbed by the SBC?

Plus there’s a whole slew of eastern time zone schools that may or may not still be in FCS: Charlotte, ODU, App St, GA South, GA St, CCU, Liberty

In a scenario where USF is the only remaining FBS school in the Big East, I think they'd keep their non-FB sports in the Big East and then either go indy in FB or seek out FB only membership in another conference.
10-17-2020 01:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,200
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 110
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #322
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-17-2020 01:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 01:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 11:52 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 10:30 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Do you ever wonder if the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over West Virginia as its 10th member?

They probably should have taken both, and one of USF or Cincy to get to 12.

But the B12 was mostly interested in keeping their media contract from being reopened due to dipping below 10 members.

This is a scenario I’ve often mulled over. Had someone in the Big 12 war room been adamant about a return to 12 then WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati all go to the Big 12, Rutgers goes to the Big Ten, and then UConn gets Maryland’s spot in the ACC. Only USF gets forced from the ranks of the big time—they go to C-USA along with 1 of Charlotte/ODU/LA Tech/UTSA.

Temple gets joined by UMass as MAC fb affiliates as originally planned.

The SBC looks something like:

UNT, ULL, ULM, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, FAU, FIU + non-fb UALR

Then you got to play the guessing game with the WAC schools: Idaho, NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech. Do they rebuild or do all/some get absorbed by the SBC?

Plus there’s a whole slew of eastern time zone schools that may or may not still be in FCS: Charlotte, ODU, App St, GA South, GA St, CCU, Liberty

In a scenario where USF is the only remaining FBS school in the Big East, I think they'd keep their non-FB sports in the Big East and then either go indy in FB or seek out FB only membership in another conference.

I think South Florida gets quietly a$ked to leave the Big East in this scenario. Also, I think the XII not going to 12 with Cincinnati, Louisville, and West Virginia was a mistake but it is what it is. I thought for sure at the time they would do that. I was also confident in Connecticut’s future in the ACC but here we are.
10-17-2020 04:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
random asian guy Online
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 121
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Virginia Tech
Location:
Post: #323
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 09:51 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 04:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  West Virginia may have a small population, but it’s proven it can support two successful FBS teams. WVU was chosen over Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, etc., so I’m really not convinced the age of the state’s population matters. They may only have ~200k living alumni, but they must have many more non-alumni fans that keep their attendance high.

Once again, just by placing a conference member in a state doesn’t guarantee any relative presence in that state. Nobody is running around Tennessee or Louisiana calling them AAC states for instance. ECU isn’t recruiting the heck out of Ohio because they play in Cincinnati every other season. That argument has been proven wrong over and over again. UNC recruited Trubisky without having any team from Ohio on their schedule.

WVU was chosen over Louisville for the B12 for a couple reasons. One, they were willing to leave the Big East immediately, without notice, and pay a huge exit penalty. WVU and Louisville were both lobbying hard to get in and got their politicians involved. I don't know Louisville's willingness to leave immediately, maybe they were willing, maybe they were negotiating that harder. The other reason was the B12, and their media partners, viewed WVU as an entry into the eastern market in general (that is sort toehold is besides the point for the B10, ACC, and even SEC). It's one of the reason the B12 wanted Pitt at first as well.

WVU has a demographic problem. Sure, they are relevant in WV, and have a lot of fans there, but state of WV really isn't relevant to anyone already in the east nor is it a place where, say ESPN, looks and goes, getting a team in there is going to make your contract more valuable.

All of that said, I think they'd be a good addition to the ACC because they fit geographically and bring competitive teams, I just don't think you'll see it happen because of the above reasons. They just aren't going to make any conference already in the east more money under the current circumstances.

Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.
10-17-2020 07:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Online
All American
*

Posts: 4,717
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 178
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #324
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-17-2020 04:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 01:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 01:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 11:52 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 10:30 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Do you ever wonder if the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over West Virginia as its 10th member?

They probably should have taken both, and one of USF or Cincy to get to 12.

But the B12 was mostly interested in keeping their media contract from being reopened due to dipping below 10 members.

This is a scenario I’ve often mulled over. Had someone in the Big 12 war room been adamant about a return to 12 then WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati all go to the Big 12, Rutgers goes to the Big Ten, and then UConn gets Maryland’s spot in the ACC. Only USF gets forced from the ranks of the big time—they go to C-USA along with 1 of Charlotte/ODU/LA Tech/UTSA.

Temple gets joined by UMass as MAC fb affiliates as originally planned.

The SBC looks something like:

UNT, ULL, ULM, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, FAU, FIU + non-fb UALR

Then you got to play the guessing game with the WAC schools: Idaho, NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech. Do they rebuild or do all/some get absorbed by the SBC?

Plus there’s a whole slew of eastern time zone schools that may or may not still be in FCS: Charlotte, ODU, App St, GA South, GA St, CCU, Liberty

In a scenario where USF is the only remaining FBS school in the Big East, I think they'd keep their non-FB sports in the Big East and then either go indy in FB or seek out FB only membership in another conference.

I think South Florida gets quietly a$ked to leave the Big East in this scenario. Also, I think the XII not going to 12 with Cincinnati, Louisville, and West Virginia was a mistake but it is what it is. I thought for sure at the time they would do that. I was also confident in Connecticut’s future in the ACC but here we are.

I agree. I think the Catholic 7 highly encourage USF to leave since they don’t fit the model.

USF might prefer to stay in the Big East but if they don’t have a choice in the matter and their hand is forced I think they return to C-USA. I don’t know that anyone would take them as a fb affiliate without a commitment from the rest of their sports.
10-17-2020 09:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 6,866
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 261
I Root For: The Heels
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #325
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 09:51 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 04:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  West Virginia may have a small population, but it’s proven it can support two successful FBS teams. WVU was chosen over Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, etc., so I’m really not convinced the age of the state’s population matters. They may only have ~200k living alumni, but they must have many more non-alumni fans that keep their attendance high.

Once again, just by placing a conference member in a state doesn’t guarantee any relative presence in that state. Nobody is running around Tennessee or Louisiana calling them AAC states for instance. ECU isn’t recruiting the heck out of Ohio because they play in Cincinnati every other season. That argument has been proven wrong over and over again. UNC recruited Trubisky without having any team from Ohio on their schedule.

WVU was chosen over Louisville for the B12 for a couple reasons. One, they were willing to leave the Big East immediately, without notice, and pay a huge exit penalty. WVU and Louisville were both lobbying hard to get in and got their politicians involved. I don't know Louisville's willingness to leave immediately, maybe they were willing, maybe they were negotiating that harder. The other reason was the B12, and their media partners, viewed WVU as an entry into the eastern market in general (that is sort toehold is besides the point for the B10, ACC, and even SEC). It's one of the reason the B12 wanted Pitt at first as well.

WVU has a demographic problem. Sure, they are relevant in WV, and have a lot of fans there, but state of WV really isn't relevant to anyone already in the east nor is it a place where, say ESPN, looks and goes, getting a team in there is going to make your contract more valuable.

All of that said, I think they'd be a good addition to the ACC because they fit geographically and bring competitive teams, I just don't think you'll see it happen because of the above reasons. They just aren't going to make any conference already in the east more money under the current circumstances.

Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.
10-18-2020 12:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
random asian guy Online
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 121
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Virginia Tech
Location:
Post: #326
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-18-2020 12:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 09:51 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  WVU was chosen over Louisville for the B12 for a couple reasons. One, they were willing to leave the Big East immediately, without notice, and pay a huge exit penalty. WVU and Louisville were both lobbying hard to get in and got their politicians involved. I don't know Louisville's willingness to leave immediately, maybe they were willing, maybe they were negotiating that harder. The other reason was the B12, and their media partners, viewed WVU as an entry into the eastern market in general (that is sort toehold is besides the point for the B10, ACC, and even SEC). It's one of the reason the B12 wanted Pitt at first as well.

WVU has a demographic problem. Sure, they are relevant in WV, and have a lot of fans there, but state of WV really isn't relevant to anyone already in the east nor is it a place where, say ESPN, looks and goes, getting a team in there is going to make your contract more valuable.

All of that said, I think they'd be a good addition to the ACC because they fit geographically and bring competitive teams, I just don't think you'll see it happen because of the above reasons. They just aren't going to make any conference already in the east more money under the current circumstances.

Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.

I don’t disagree with you on WVU’s brand and value. I just don’t see the ACC decision makers invite the WVU. Lots of excused such as the market, population, fan behavior, academics, etc. But the bottom line is, they just don’t wnat to associate with WVU.
10-18-2020 11:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Statefan Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,728
Joined: May 2018
Reputation: 125
I Root For: .
Location:
Post: #327
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
Over half the kids at WVa are not from WVa. WVa is enrolling Ohio kids as their own https://undergraduate.wvu.edu/strategies...agreements and kids from the western MD panhandle. The relative population drain in West Va is real. This is not the academic common market. This is just another example of how WVa is different from the other ACC public schools. In perfect world, West Va would physically extend to Athens Ohio and the U of Ohio would be the academic side and WVa would be the athletic side, and they would have been in the ACC years ago.
10-18-2020 12:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,660
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 306
I Root For: Carolina
Location:
Post: #328
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-18-2020 12:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 09:51 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  WVU was chosen over Louisville for the B12 for a couple reasons. One, they were willing to leave the Big East immediately, without notice, and pay a huge exit penalty. WVU and Louisville were both lobbying hard to get in and got their politicians involved. I don't know Louisville's willingness to leave immediately, maybe they were willing, maybe they were negotiating that harder. The other reason was the B12, and their media partners, viewed WVU as an entry into the eastern market in general (that is sort toehold is besides the point for the B10, ACC, and even SEC). It's one of the reason the B12 wanted Pitt at first as well.

WVU has a demographic problem. Sure, they are relevant in WV, and have a lot of fans there, but state of WV really isn't relevant to anyone already in the east nor is it a place where, say ESPN, looks and goes, getting a team in there is going to make your contract more valuable.

All of that said, I think they'd be a good addition to the ACC because they fit geographically and bring competitive teams, I just don't think you'll see it happen because of the above reasons. They just aren't going to make any conference already in the east more money under the current circumstances.

Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.

It was the lawsuit that doomed UConn. They were never in serious contention for membership after they tried to pull that stunt.

If there was a bitter pill, it was the realization that Maryland's administrators lied face-to-face about their intentions.
10-19-2020 11:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CrazyPaco Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,435
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 144
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #329
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-18-2020 12:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 09:51 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  WVU was chosen over Louisville for the B12 for a couple reasons. One, they were willing to leave the Big East immediately, without notice, and pay a huge exit penalty. WVU and Louisville were both lobbying hard to get in and got their politicians involved. I don't know Louisville's willingness to leave immediately, maybe they were willing, maybe they were negotiating that harder. The other reason was the B12, and their media partners, viewed WVU as an entry into the eastern market in general (that is sort toehold is besides the point for the B10, ACC, and even SEC). It's one of the reason the B12 wanted Pitt at first as well.

WVU has a demographic problem. Sure, they are relevant in WV, and have a lot of fans there, but state of WV really isn't relevant to anyone already in the east nor is it a place where, say ESPN, looks and goes, getting a team in there is going to make your contract more valuable.

All of that said, I think they'd be a good addition to the ACC because they fit geographically and bring competitive teams, I just don't think you'll see it happen because of the above reasons. They just aren't going to make any conference already in the east more money under the current circumstances.

Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.

Is it the better overall program?
10-19-2020 12:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CrazyPaco Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,435
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 144
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #330
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 11:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-18-2020 12:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 03:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is by far my favorite proposal for a 3 division ACC.

I don’t know that all of the protected crossovers are necessary. The only ones you really need are FSU-Miami, and some among the N.C. schools.

I can also see this 2 division model working:

Atlantic (North): BC, Cuse, Pitt, VT, ND, Miami, Louisville, Cincy/WVU
Coastal (South): UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, GT, Clemson, FSU

Only the 7 divisional games are mandatory. FSU-Miami, and UVA-VT both agree to annual OOC games in perpetuity.

No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 09:44 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Even though WVU would have much more value in the ACC or BIG, even in the SEC, there is little chance that they ever get an invitation to a power conference that is a better fit.

Their biggest problem is financial potential. Major conferences and college athletics have become big business. WVU’s potential is limited because they are in a relatively small, isolated, impoverished geography and their academics isn’t a positive differentiator. The SEC and BIG are way ahead of other conferences...the ACC is playing catch-up and can’t afford to add a school with limited potential.

What made Louisville the better choice over UConn, wasn’t just their commitment to football. Louisville had also embraced how big time college athletics had evolved...maybe they noticed how Ohio State was growing or maybe nearby Kentucky Wildcats was their model...their revenue, “profits” and valuations were well managed. Louisville was the antithesis of Maryland’s financial struggles. WVU doesn’t provide the same level of confidence in terms of long-term financial viability.

Their best chance to get an invitation is if Pitt and/or VT become more powerful programs in the ACC. Then their natural rivals can advocate for their inclusion. Similarly, Penn State or Maryland could advocate within the BIG...although that seems highly unlikely.

Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.

It was the lawsuit that doomed UConn. They were never in serious contention for membership after they tried to pull that stunt.

If there was a bitter pill, it was the realization that Maryland's administrators lied face-to-face about their intentions.

It was their football program that doomed UConn, not the lawsuit.
10-19-2020 12:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kaplony Offline
Palmetto State Deplorable
*

Posts: 24,899
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 2573
I Root For: Newberry
Location: SC
Post: #331
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 12:36 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 11:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-18-2020 12:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 07:16 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-06-2020 04:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  No way ND would play in that no brand division. The only can see this setup is if ND is out, and ESPN wants to snipe UC and sell off the AAC TV rights. WVU would be the only other viable school to make it a complete 16, but ESPN would not pay big make that reunion a reality, and WVU leaving would not damage the Big 12 enough to tip the balance of power. As a fan of the old Big East, I think they can make the money work, but 16 divided by 2 is no longer a single conference if we're being honest. You still need a 4 team mini playoff to make it viable.

(10-17-2020 11:50 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Pitt did advocate for WVU when Pitt joined the ACC, and also for their inclusion when Pitt was talking to the B12 prior to that. There's also just too much market overlap with WVU and other ACC teams. Louisville added a new market and has better athletic financials. I'm not sure who gets in the ACC if both Louisville and WVU were available in 2014.

Even if both were available, the ACC would have chosen Louisville in my opinion. I am not even sure if the ACC would have picked WVU over Cincy if Big 12 had taken Louisville instead of WVU.

It was a bitter pill to swallow Louisville over UConn. Why would WVU be any tougher?

Are people forgetting Jurich was selling his soul to get Louisville in the Big XII over WVU in the 11th hour and it still don’t work? The people in the know, knew WVU was the obvious choice. Better brand, better value, better overall program. Just the way it is.

It was the lawsuit that doomed UConn. They were never in serious contention for membership after they tried to pull that stunt.

If there was a bitter pill, it was the realization that Maryland's administrators lied face-to-face about their intentions.

It was their football program that doomed UConn, not the lawsuit.

Exactly. If the football schools wouldn't have put their foot down and told Tobacco Road no UConn would have been in the ACC as we speak making everyone's SOS that much weaker.
10-19-2020 01:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 6,866
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 261
I Root For: The Heels
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #332
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU
10-19-2020 02:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CrazyPaco Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,435
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 144
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #333
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU

1. All-time winning % is without context
2. We don't know what Jurich threw up in comparison to WVU. There was a timing issue.
3. WVU may have made more sense to the B12 because they were looking to get into the eastern markets.

I agree WVU's brand has been stronger in football. I'm not sure their football program is actually stronger (or weaker). Looks more like a push to me.

If UL and WVU were available to the ACC, I still don't know who gets in. Louisville generates more athletic revenue and have more money to throw at it ($140m vs $103m in 2018-19) and opens a new market. WVU makes for better geographic homogeneity and brings better rivalry games. Pitt an SU probably lobby for WVU.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2020 02:31 PM by CrazyPaco.)
10-19-2020 02:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 17,004
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 656
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #334
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU

IDK what source you used but according to my UC Media Guide the Bearcats are 631-593-50 all-time, above the .499 mark you cited.
10-19-2020 03:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ChrisLords Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,370
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation: 125
I Root For: Virginia Tech
Location: Earth
Post: #335
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU

No permanent cross-overs.

Central
-----
UVA
Virginia Tech
UNC
Duke
NCSU
Wake
WVU

National
-----
BC
Cuse
Pitt
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami
10-19-2020 03:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Online
All American
*

Posts: 4,717
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 178
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #336
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU

That’s a great line up. Alternatively, you could rearrange like so:

BC, Cuse, Pitt, WVU, VT, GT, Miami

UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, Clemson, FSU
10-19-2020 03:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,961
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 163
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #337
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 12:34 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Is it the better overall program?

Historically speaking, WVU has a .597 winning percentage in football. Navy .554, TCU .541, Louisville .538, Cincinnati .499.

This was a football-driven expansion, and yes, Jurich threw everything he had to leapfrog the Mountaineers into the Big XII.

Had WVU not made their decision before Maryland left for the Big Ten, I cannot see how the ACC would have passed this up:

BC----Syracuse
Pitt---WVU
UVA--Virginia Tech
UNC--NC State
Duke-Wake
GT----Clemson
Miami-FSU

Wise or not, I don't think the ACC would have chosen WVU over Louisville, probably not over Cincinnati, and possibly not even over UConn. But if they did have the chance to replace UMD with WVU and took it, here are some better divisional alignment options:

Atlantic/Coastal
Clemson/Georgia Tech
Florida State/Miami-FL
NC State/North Carolina
Pittsburgh/Virginia
Syracuse/Boston College
Wake Forest/Duke
West Virginia/Virginia Tech

Atlantic/Coastal
Boston College/Syracuse
Clemson/Georgia Tech
Florida State/Miami-FL
NC State/Wake Forest
North Carolina/Duke
Virginia/Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech/West Virginia

Atlantic/Coastal
Clemson/Georgia Tech
Florida State/Miami-FL
NC State/Wake Forest
North Carolina/Duke
Syracuse/Boston College
Pittsburgh/West Virginia
Virginia/Virginia Tech
10-19-2020 04:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,200
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 110
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #338
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
Divisionless! Say Notre Dame maintains independence and ACC goes to 16 with West Virginia and Cincinnati. 3 permanent rivals.

Boston College: Cincinnati, Miami, Syracuse
Cincinnati: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Florida St, Wake Forest
Louisville: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Miami: Boston College, Florida St, Virginia Tech
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Miami, Virginia, West Virginia
Wake Forest: Duke, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
- West Virginia: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech
10-19-2020 04:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,961
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 163
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #339
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 04:31 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Divisionless! Say Notre Dame maintains independence and ACC goes to 16 with West Virginia and Cincinnati. 3 permanent rivals.

Boston College: Cincinnati, Miami, Syracuse
Cincinnati: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Florida St, Wake Forest
Louisville: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Miami: Boston College, Florida St, Virginia Tech
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Miami, Virginia, West Virginia
Wake Forest: Duke, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
- West Virginia: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech

You'll probably want to keep Duke/GT. Maybe swap Duke/UVA and GT/WF.
10-19-2020 04:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,200
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 110
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #340
RE: Just for fun: ACC's 16th member
(10-19-2020 04:43 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(10-19-2020 04:31 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Divisionless! Say Notre Dame maintains independence and ACC goes to 16 with West Virginia and Cincinnati. 3 permanent rivals.

Boston College: Cincinnati, Miami, Syracuse
Cincinnati: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Clemson: Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
Duke: North Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Florida St: Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Florida St, Wake Forest
Louisville: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Miami: Boston College, Florida St, Virginia Tech
North Carolina: Duke, North Carolina St, Virginia
North Carolina St: Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Pittsburgh: Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia
Syracuse: Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Virginia: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech: Miami, Virginia, West Virginia
Wake Forest: Duke, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St
- West Virginia: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech

You'll probably want to keep Duke/GT. Maybe swap Duke/UVA and GT/WF.

I struggled with that one but you’re probably right. I think I’ve heard Duke really valued the game with Georgia Tech.
10-19-2020 05:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.