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Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
(10-27-2020 07:41 PM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(10-27-2020 08:42 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  It's a valid overall point for the school, albeit one I'm not sure I agree with. But if we're doing that, we should go D3 and cut athletic costs everywhere across the board. The worst possible thing we could do is take a middle ground approach that has both the downsides of elevated spending AND lack of success. There's no point in fielding D1 basketball and football teams if we're going to doom them to irrelevancy with barebones funding (largely what we did with our basketball program for decades until we got lucky with Shaver).

Mr. Roberts in his column did not argue for unilateral disarmament by Wm & Mary. He argued for strategic arms limitation talks among small enrollment schools that play FCS football and division 1 basketball. Shaping a competitive landscape where schools that value academics and athletics can thrive would make it possible to succeed without a futile arms race that bankrupts the participants and results in the elimination of non revenue sports.
This limited arms race conference comprised of like minded academic schools sounds great. It all seems so far fetched though. Who are these other bold schools looking to join these ranks? Are we trying to raid the Patriot league? Many attractive, geographically relevant candidates are one or the other. They seem to either have higher level aspirations in basketball or football and I'm not sure their is enough desire to sacrifice their ambitions.
10-27-2020 08:09 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #42
Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
We have this discussion about every 3 years. Remember when a few said we should join the PL because "the CAA is a sinking ship" after GMU & VCU left? This conversation goes back to at least 2003 on the old CAAzone boards.

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(This post was last modified: 10-27-2020 09:20 PM by Tribal.)
10-27-2020 09:19 PM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
(10-27-2020 09:19 PM)Tribal Wrote:  We have this discussion about every 3 years. Remember when a few said we should join the PL because "the CAA is a sinking ship" after GMU & VCU left? This conversation goes back to at least 2003 on the old CAAzone boards.

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10-28-2020 06:41 AM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
I think part of the problem is there is no clear agreed upon goal...

"If you don't know where you're going, many paths will get you there."
10-28-2020 10:43 AM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
(10-27-2020 08:09 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(10-27-2020 07:41 PM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(10-27-2020 08:42 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  It's a valid overall point for the school, albeit one I'm not sure I agree with. But if we're doing that, we should go D3 and cut athletic costs everywhere across the board. The worst possible thing we could do is take a middle ground approach that has both the downsides of elevated spending AND lack of success. There's no point in fielding D1 basketball and football teams if we're going to doom them to irrelevancy with barebones funding (largely what we did with our basketball program for decades until we got lucky with Shaver).

Mr. Roberts in his column did not argue for unilateral disarmament by Wm & Mary. He argued for strategic arms limitation talks among small enrollment schools that play FCS football and division 1 basketball. Shaping a competitive landscape where schools that value academics and athletics can thrive would make it possible to succeed without a futile arms race that bankrupts the participants and results in the elimination of non revenue sports.
This limited arms race conference comprised of like minded academic schools sounds great. It all seems so far fetched though. Who are these other bold schools looking to join these ranks? Are we trying to raid the Patriot league? Many attractive, geographically relevant candidates are one or the other. They seem to either have higher level aspirations in basketball or football and I'm not sure their is enough desire to sacrifice their ambitions.

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

It sure looks like Wm & Mary will end 2020 out of position -- a member of a geographically dispersed conference where the cost of competition in football and basketball is, if not prohibitive, certainly stretching the college's financial and emotional fabric. The obvious options for addressing the challenge leave much to be desired:

Maintain the CAA status quo, and hope for a combination donors returning en masse, cost cutting of sports not named football and basketball, a return of buy games, and students willing to continue paying activity fees. And also hope there is no CAA attrition.

Finding a home in an existing conference not named CAA where the cost of competition is less expensive (and evidently hope as many stakeholders won't revolt over this option as did over cutting seven sports). This option is complicated by an exit cost and maybe even by a brand that has been tarnished if not damaged. It's an assumption at this point that another league is anxious to have Wm & Mary (until evidence emerges to the contrary).

Butt heads with the NCAA over auto bids and attempt to form a new league of like minded limited budget FCS and Division 1 basketball schools in the mid-Atlantic/Virginia/Carolinas. It is absolutely true that two schools in proximity that would be good fits are enamored of their A10 media revenues and "prestige" and are therefore off the table. But it is also true that Wm & Mary is not alone in being financially challenged at this point and per Mr. Roberts column, shouldn't be afraid to undertake a mission to determine if there are better combinations. They might get what they need.
10-28-2020 04:29 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
I want to love your idea about butting heads with the NCAA, but I don't think we're going to do anything without an athletic director.

I firmly believe that this pandemic is going to start hitting schools really hard in the wallet with no football attendence. That's when schools are going to start looking to do something else. Going from BCS to FCS and cutting the team size and scholarships makes a lot of sense to me as long as enough teams drop down to keep BCS rivalries in tact
10-28-2020 04:35 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #47
Is W&M Chasing an Impossible Dream?
We need to decide who we are/want to be and align ourselves with like minded schools. It seems as if there has been a disconnect between the athletics department/bov and the alumni and fan base on the goals of the department. If playing high level mid-major basketball and football are a priority, we should stay the course that we were heading and remain a CAA cornerstone. If that's the plan, we need to function as a CAA level school. If we are going to not emphasize our revenue sports and focus on offering as many athletic opportunities as possible to our students, then we should be actively courting a patriot like conference. I would be disappointed if that is the vision.
I guess it's good to be proactive and on the lookout for these bcs schools looking to eject themselves from the arms race. But, who are these schools? Can we gather enough of them to make a realistic conference? Im not sure pandemic limitations are going to be around long enough to really hurt the pockets of these hurting schools. And, I'm pretty sure, any schools that want to drop back from bcs still will spend waaaaayy more than William & Mary will want to on basketball or football.
10-28-2020 05:20 PM
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