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2021 US News Rankings
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Pervis_Griffith Online
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Post: #21
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-18-2020 11:00 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 08:30 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 07:05 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:07 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 01:20 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Look US News is only one methodology of ranking, and it caters to its customers, so you have to take it with a grain of salt because it is a huge commercial enterprise (it is US News' biggest money maker). That said, it is the most widely known in the US and has had the most influence. But it is only one system and focuses only on the undergraduate component of an institution and that focus is entirely based on US News' own opinion of what should be important. US News' methodology changes almost every year as well, so you have to take year-to-year comparisons with at grain of salt.

That said, here are Louisville's rankings over the last 10 years (or since the Fall 2011, which would be called the 2012 rankings):
2011: 164
2012: 160
2013: 161
2014: 161
2015: 168
2016: 171
2017: 165
2018: 171
2019: 192
2020: 176

Honestly, the movement here is uninterpretable with the changes to the methodologies US News has made over this period.

Shows you Louisville has no business in the ACC ... at least academically. They're an embarrassment to the conference. They're ranked lower in 2021 than Mississippi! UConn would've fit the ACC's academic (and geographic) profile way better.

But at least Louisville is better than West Virginia!

Louisville is tied with Washington State and is ranked ahead of Oklahoma State, Mississippi St, Texas Tech, and West Virginia.

Mean and median for each P5 conference:
ACC 54.0; 49.0
Big10 61.1; 60.5
Pac12 80.2; 97.0
SEC 111.6; 121.0
Big12 138.8; 128.5

And if the ACC had taken UConn instead of Louisville the mean would have been 46.5 (the median would still be 49). But hey, we got Pitino's scandals!

What do the incredibly dense people outside the ACC not get about about the fact that UConn might was well be ugly, fat, pregnant girl at the dance? Louisville might be the equivalent of the class bimbo that has made out with entire football team, but at least she is fun. At least Lou knows her place. At least Lou is not trying to manage the group. At least her daddy is not threatening to sue all the boys.



Umm ... thanks?? 04-jawdrop


03-lmfao
09-18-2020 12:28 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
https://money.com/best-colleges/

Money Magazine rankings of best value

5 Duke
6 UVa
21 GT
35 NC State
37 VT
43 UNC
60 ND
67 Clemson
85 BC
146 WF
239 Syracuse
280 Pitt
500 Miami
536 Louisville

Some states are really bad at supporting the cost of higher education Pa, Ky, NY, Maryland, and Nebraska

Heres the B10

4 Michigan
23 Ill
23 Purdue
28 Wisky
53 NW
58 Minn and tie with Indiana
78 Rutgers
102 OSU
118 Iowa
168 MD
277 Nebraska
278 Penn State
09-25-2020 12:09 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #23
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-18-2020 12:28 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-18-2020 11:00 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 08:30 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 07:05 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:07 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Shows you Louisville has no business in the ACC ... at least academically. They're an embarrassment to the conference. They're ranked lower in 2021 than Mississippi! UConn would've fit the ACC's academic (and geographic) profile way better.

But at least Louisville is better than West Virginia!

Louisville is tied with Washington State and is ranked ahead of Oklahoma State, Mississippi St, Texas Tech, and West Virginia.

Mean and median for each P5 conference:
ACC 54.0; 49.0
Big10 61.1; 60.5
Pac12 80.2; 97.0
SEC 111.6; 121.0
Big12 138.8; 128.5

And if the ACC had taken UConn instead of Louisville the mean would have been 46.5 (the median would still be 49). But hey, we got Pitino's scandals!

What do the incredibly dense people outside the ACC not get about about the fact that UConn might was well be ugly, fat, pregnant girl at the dance? Louisville might be the equivalent of the class bimbo that has made out with entire football team, but at least she is fun. At least Lou knows her place. At least Lou is not trying to manage the group. At least her daddy is not threatening to sue all the boys.



Umm ... thanks?? 04-jawdrop


03-lmfao

That’s about as close to an insult as a compliment can get
09-25-2020 12:35 AM
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CrazyPaco Online
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Post: #24
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-25-2020 12:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  https://money.com/best-colleges/

Money Magazine rankings of best value

5 Duke
6 UVa
21 GT
35 NC State
37 VT
43 UNC
60 ND
67 Clemson
85 BC
146 WF
239 Syracuse
280 Pitt
500 Miami
536 Louisville

Some states are really bad at supporting the cost of higher education Pa, Ky, NY, Maryland, and Nebraska

Heres the B10

4 Michigan
23 Ill
23 Purdue
28 Wisky
53 NW
58 Minn and tie with Indiana
78 Rutgers
102 OSU
118 Iowa
168 MD
277 Nebraska
278 Penn State

Pennsylvania has something like the 3rd worst support for higher education and I think it is dead last in support for its research institutions (Pitt, PSU, and Temple). PSU and Pitt are #s 2 & 3 for most expensive publics in the country, I think after Vermont? But then again, they're not really publics in the traditional sense, especially Pitt and Temple.
09-25-2020 01:17 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
IIRC Pa, NY, and NJ share a predatory college loan company and a lot of kids are steered to them. Maybe that has been fixed. I used to run into a lot of kids at VT from Pa and NJ and being from NC was really interested why you go out of state to a public school, but nearly to a student it cost as much to attend VT out of state as it did to attend similar publics in Pa and NJ and if you established firm residency after a year you could qualify for in state tuition. An apartment off campus and a part job did that.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2020 11:10 AM by Statefan.)
09-25-2020 11:06 AM
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tj_2009 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-25-2020 12:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  https://money.com/best-colleges/

Money Magazine rankings of best value

5 Duke
6 UVa
21 GT
35 NC State
37 VT
43 UNC
60 ND
67 Clemson
85 BC
146 WF
239 Syracuse
280 Pitt
500 Miami
536 Louisville

Some states are really bad at supporting the cost of higher education Pa, Ky, NY, Maryland, and Nebraska

Heres the B10

4 Michigan
23 Ill
23 Purdue
28 Wisky
53 NW
58 Minn and tie with Indiana
78 Rutgers
102 OSU
118 Iowa
168 MD
277 Nebraska
278 Penn State

The costs of going to University is getting out of hand and I think it is going to get worse, with all the losses that the Universities are taking from Covid-19. Not sure what the solution is but the debt that these students are going to have when they graduate is going to be huge.
09-27-2020 09:29 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-25-2020 12:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  https://money.com/best-colleges/

Money Magazine rankings of best value

5 Duke
6 UVa
21 GT
35 NC State
37 VT
43 UNC
60 ND
67 Clemson
85 BC
146 WF
239 Syracuse
280 Pitt
500 Miami
536 Louisville

Some states are really bad at supporting the cost of higher education Pa, Ky, NY, Maryland, and Nebraska

Heres the B10

4 Michigan
23 Ill
23 Purdue
28 Wisky
53 NW
58 Minn and tie with Indiana
78 Rutgers
102 OSU
118 Iowa
168 MD
277 Nebraska
278 Penn State

That’s an interesting list...best value universities. Lots of ACC schools rank fairly high. The ACC list above is missing FSU (#96).

Seems as if the low graduation rate is really hurting Louisville. Some ACC schools have over 90% graduation rates...Louisville is at 57%.

Similarly, the relative lack of grants for students with financial need is hurting Miami. The average price with aid (@$45k per year) is very high. Miami seems to be catering to wealthier students.
09-27-2020 05:24 PM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
"Seems as if the low graduation rate is really hurting Louisville. Some ACC schools have over 90% graduation rates...Louisville is at 57%."

The University of Louisville has a very low restrictions, and very open, admissions policy. They just about accept anyone and everyone. They are minimally competitive. Their idea is that college education should be available to everyone. And that getting at least some education is better than getting none. The state of Kentucky is quite poor, and so cannot afford to defray more college student expense. But Pell grants and other similar programs are arranged for those who need help. The metro area, from which the preponderance of students is drawn, has slightly lower than average income (nationally), is very blue-collar in focus (this has been very tough to change), is typically a little less aspirational, and has an increasingly large poor Black population (who are statistically low academic achievers). The local public school system has received increasingly poor marks on successfully educating the district's children since the federal busing requirement was introduced in 1975. Incoming students to the University are not as well-prepared as many others who come from more effective school systems.

The University has a very low 6-year graduation rate. This is mainly attributed to focusing on poorer students who find they need to go to work to make ends meet, and so don't finish within 6 years.

Their Medicine, Law and Engineering schools all do very well. Their rates of "6-year" graduation are pretty typical compared with nationwide numbers. The Engineering school has a co-op work requirement, and so normally it takes at least 5 years to graduate.

It is mostly the liberal arts schools and programs which don't graduate a high proportion of "6-year" students. And the main reason is that the kids are not as prepared for college. By incoming measures of learning, achievement, values, aspirations, finances and family/peer expectations.

The University was Municipally owned and operated until 1969-1970, when the state of Kentucky took over. The reason for the change was entirely financial. The University was going broke and could not pay its Profs properly.

Subsequent to becoming a state-operated university, the University was required to change its focus. In fact, many of its directions and programs were significantly affected. These changes, as well as the effects of those factors named above have contributed to the low 6-year graduation rate.

It is a huge struggle, but progress is being made...we think. Our main challenge is to raise the level of K-12 educational achievement in our incoming students and in getting them access to more funding.
09-28-2020 08:19 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-28-2020 08:19 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  "Seems as if the low graduation rate is really hurting Louisville. Some ACC schools have over 90% graduation rates...Louisville is at 57%."

The University of Louisville has a very low restrictions, and very open, admissions policy. They just about accept anyone and everyone. They are minimally competitive. Their idea is that college education should be available to everyone. And that getting at least some education is better than getting none. The state of Kentucky is quite poor, and so cannot afford to defray more college student expense. But Pell grants and other similar programs are arranged for those who need help. The metro area, from which the preponderance of students is drawn, has slightly lower than average income (nationally), is very blue-collar in focus (this has been very tough to change), is typically a little less aspirational, and has an increasingly large poor Black population (who are statistically low academic achievers). The local public school system has received increasingly poor marks on successfully educating the district's children since the federal busing requirement was introduced in 1975. Incoming students to the University are not as well-prepared as many others who come from more effective school systems.

The University has a very low 6-year graduation rate. This is mainly attributed to focusing on poorer students who find they need to go to work to make ends meet, and so don't finish within 6 years.

Their Medicine, Law and Engineering schools all do very well. Their rates of "6-year" graduation are pretty typical compared with nationwide numbers. The Engineering school has a co-op work requirement, and so normally it takes at least 5 years to graduate.

It is mostly the liberal arts schools and programs which don't graduate a high proportion of "6-year" students. And the main reason is that the kids are not as prepared for college. By incoming measures of learning, achievement, values, aspirations, finances and family/peer expectations.

The University was Municipally owned and operated until 1969-1970, when the state of Kentucky took over. The reason for the change was entirely financial. The University was going broke and could not pay its Profs properly.

Subsequent to becoming a state-operated university, the University was required to change its focus. In fact, many of its directions and programs were significantly affected. These changes, as well as the effects of those factors named above have contributed to the low 6-year graduation rate.

It is a huge struggle, but progress is being made...we think. Our main challenge is to raise the level of K-12 educational achievement in our incoming students and in getting them access to more funding.

I get the commitment to the community, especially in liberal arts. That is admirable, largely essential, and to Louisville’s long-term credit.

But Louisville’s academic business model and outcomes combine a relatively low graduation rate with relatively high effective pricing (after incorporating grant aid) and high average student debt. There are a number of Cal State universities with lower graduation rates...because they have comparable community-based missions...but these schools provide more grant aid; the school is taking a great financial risk on the community and scores much higher on “value” ratings. An alternative approach is keeping average student debt down (more like the University of Houston or WSU models)...once again comparable graduation rates, but with higher value. Probably the best example of a comparable mission with different outcomes is the University of Arizona; they combine low graduation rates with high grant aid and low average student debt.

The point being that there are ways to drive significant value to students without sacrificing too much on mission. As the competition for students increases over the next several decades, there are lots of niches available. The challenge is to make gradual and consistent progress over a long horizon.
09-28-2020 11:02 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
[/quote]

I get the commitment to the community, especially in liberal arts. That is admirable, largely essential, and to Louisville’s long-term credit.

But Louisville’s academic business model and outcomes combine a relatively low graduation rate with relatively high effective pricing (after incorporating grant aid) and high average student debt. There are a number of Cal State universities with lower graduation rates...because they have comparable community-based missions...but these schools provide more grant aid; the school is taking a great financial risk on the community and scores much higher on “value” ratings. An alternative approach is keeping average student debt down (more like the University of Houston or WSU models)...once again comparable graduation rates, but with higher value. Probably the best example of a comparable mission with different outcomes is the University of Arizona; they combine low graduation rates with high grant aid and low average student debt.

The point being that there are ways to drive significant value to students without sacrificing too much on mission. As the competition for students increases over the next several decades, there are lots of niches available. The challenge is to make gradual and consistent progress over a long horizon.
[/quote]
I pretty much agree. I have been speaking with the President, Engineering Dean and Business Dean about just this. There are some other options.
09-29-2020 07:17 AM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: 2021 US News Rankings

I get the commitment to the community, especially in liberal arts. That is admirable, largely essential, and to Louisville’s long-term credit.

But Louisville’s academic business model and outcomes combine a relatively low graduation rate with relatively high effective pricing (after incorporating grant aid) and high average student debt. There are a number of Cal State universities with lower graduation rates...because they have comparable community-based missions...but these schools provide more grant aid; the school is taking a great financial risk on the community and scores much higher on “value” ratings. An alternative approach is keeping average student debt down (more like the University of Houston or WSU models)...once again comparable graduation rates, but with higher value. Probably the best example of a comparable mission with different outcomes is the University of Arizona; they combine low graduation rates with high grant aid and low average student debt.

The point being that there are ways to drive significant value to students without sacrificing too much on mission. As the competition for students increases over the next several decades, there are lots of niches available. The challenge is to make gradual and consistent progress over a long horizon.
[/quote]
I pretty much agree. I have been speaking with the President, Engineering Dean and Business Dean about just this. There are some other options.
[/quote]

I suspect the greatest hurdle will be your State legislators who will demand you remain accessible for in-State kids. You are lucky not to have one or two niche private schools that will bleed off 2-3K in state kids a year that you would like to have.
09-29-2020 11:34 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2021 US News Rankings
(09-29-2020 11:34 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-29-2020 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  

I get the commitment to the community, especially in liberal arts. That is admirable, largely essential, and to Louisville’s long-term credit.

But Louisville’s academic business model and outcomes combine a relatively low graduation rate with relatively high effective pricing (after incorporating grant aid) and high average student debt. There are a number of Cal State universities with lower graduation rates...because they have comparable community-based missions...but these schools provide more grant aid; the school is taking a great financial risk on the community and scores much higher on “value” ratings. An alternative approach is keeping average student debt down (more like the University of Houston or WSU models)...once again comparable graduation rates, but with higher value. Probably the best example of a comparable mission with different outcomes is the University of Arizona; they combine low graduation rates with high grant aid and low average student debt.

The point being that there are ways to drive significant value to students without sacrificing too much on mission. As the competition for students increases over the next several decades, there are lots of niches available. The challenge is to make gradual and consistent progress over a long horizon.
I pretty much agree. I have been speaking with the President, Engineering Dean and Business Dean about just this. There are some other options.
[/quote]

I suspect the greatest hurdle will be your State legislators who will demand you remain accessible for in-State kids. You are lucky not to have one or two niche private schools that will bleed off 2-3K in state kids a year that you would like to have.
[/quote]
The State legislators largely do help to channel the better students to the University of Kentucky. That's fairly typical. There's vastly more spent on facilities, and considerably more on Profs at UK. Tuition assistance is just a wee bit better at UK.

Louisville doesn't face privates like a Duke or Wake or Northwestern in our back yard. Vanderbilt is the best example and a good one. I would have attended Vanderbilt had I not been dirt-poor.

The University of Louisville draws students from 119 of the 120 Kentucky counties, and 46 of the 50 states. Also from 18 other countries.

The academics in the University's heavily STEM-related schools and programs are pretty sound. And the campus experience for the kids is very solid. The University's Kent School is highly regarded.

I spoke with the B School Dean yesterday, as well as "advancement/development" staff. One thing I got which is new is that all the University's schools are not effectively coordinating their grant/support/outreach programs. They realize this but are still having a tough time coordinating.
09-30-2020 07:41 AM
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