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Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:57 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I put $19.5k into 401k pre-tax and 26.5k into 401k post tax which including company match puts me at the 57k hard limit and give me a 19.5k deduction which saves me about 6300 in taxes.

The Biden plan would take away the deduction and give me a tax credit. I've seen two numbers for the credit, .20 and .26. At .20 I would pay an extra 1300 in taxes, and at .2 i would pay an extra 2300. I'm good with it if it encourages more retirement saving for low income individuals.

But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

I know a lot of people who make enough to contribute to their 401k, but they spent their money on a nicer truck payment. Hopefully this will encourage savings in some of these people.

Correct...They have the money to make a substantial contribution but dont----despite having access to the current higher potential tax credits. So why would anyone think cutting the rate would encourage contributions by those with the least disposable income.

If you want to help those lower income folks save for retirement, simply pass a law that requires that a tiny portion of their check goes directly to a 401K (inaccessible until retirement age) where the individual would still control the asset allocation (like any 401K plan). Perhaps, as they see the balance grow, they will be encouraged to add more than the minimum. And before you say this is unfair---its a lot more fair than any tax that takes the money from these same citizens and never returns it. This money stays with them. I'd suggest half of one percent and would be applicable to everyone with a slight increase to 1% past a certain income level.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 04:14 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-13-2021 03:28 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:26 PM)maximus Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:14 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:57 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I put $19.5k into 401k pre-tax and 26.5k into 401k post tax which including company match puts me at the 57k hard limit and give me a 19.5k deduction which saves me about 6300 in taxes.

The Biden plan would take away the deduction and give me a tax credit. I've seen two numbers for the credit, .20 and .26. At .20 I would pay an extra 1300 in taxes, and at .2 i would pay an extra 2300. I'm good with it if it encourages more retirement saving for low income individuals.

But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

Exactly.

This proposed change is nothing but a way to tax the middle class in the disguise of helping the poor.

One of the only ways many middle class family's can build wealth and have a retirement is through a company sponsored 401k and Joe wants to screw with it to try and score political points.

How is this a tax to the middle class?
Newsbreak pal

Im not working my dick off and saving for retirement for somebody else....

Im already doing that, its called social security. They have robbed it down to bare bones, now they are coming for it in other ways.

No effin thank you

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

So don't contribute to your 401k and pay even more taxes. Or contribute Roth 401k and pay them all now.

At the .26 credit people are talking about this only results in paying more taxes if you make more than 326,600 married filing jointly. For people in the 24% tax bracket it should be a break even, and a benefit for anyone making less than 171k married filing jointly.
01-13-2021 03:33 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:57 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I put $19.5k into 401k pre-tax and 26.5k into 401k post tax which including company match puts me at the 57k hard limit and give me a 19.5k deduction which saves me about 6300 in taxes.

The Biden plan would take away the deduction and give me a tax credit. I've seen two numbers for the credit, .20 and .26. At .20 I would pay an extra 1300 in taxes, and at .2 i would pay an extra 2300. I'm good with it if it encourages more retirement saving for low income individuals.

But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

I know a lot of people who make enough to contribute to their 401k, but they spent their money on a nicer truck payment. Hopefully this will encourage savings in some of these people.

I've worked with people making triple figures that don't contribute to their 401ks. These people aren't ignorant but I'll never understand saying no to free money. I'm sure they have other investement vehicles, but not taking the free contribution is just weird, IMO.
01-13-2021 03:33 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 02:56 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
Quote:Additionally, I've seen some proposals were the new Senate would split their time, working on impeachment for half a day and on other things like COVID relief and vaccine distribution improvement the other half of the day.


That is all nice but the Senate must drop everything they are working on until the impeachment hearing is over.

https://www.heritage.org/political-proce...-need-know

That's the current rule. They can change it as far as I know.
01-13-2021 03:36 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, I've been reading up on Biden's 401(k) plan proposal. Apparently he thinks the current set up isn't "fair" because currently the size of the incentive is dependent on earnings. He proposes changing the tax incentive to save for retirement from a deduction to a flat, refundable tax credit. Of course, they make no mention of the fact that those same higher earners are shouldering a higher tax burden.

Thoughts?

Biden was a dummy before dementia ate the best part of his brain---so his idiotic proposal doesnt surprise me. He doesnt understand economics...or much of anything else--even his own campaign. This is a guy who ran on "unity"---yet somehow arrived at the conclusion that spending most of his first 100 days's pursuing a divisive impeachment of a president who is already gone is a great idea. As a nation, I fear we are in for what may be the worst 4 years since the Civil War.

Well, pushing impeachment to the Biden administration is mostly all on Mitch.

But it's hardly going to consume 100 days. The last one only took 20 days total in the senate, and this one will likely last much much less.

Additionally, I've seen some proposals were the new Senate would split their time, working on impeachment for half a day and on other things like COVID relief and vaccine distribution improvement the other half of the day.

Factually false. Impeachment starts in the House. As for the Senate, my understanding is once it reaches the Senate, the Senate has no choice but to immediately address it when the Senate next gathers.

Mitch can resume the senate if he wants before it's scheduled beginning next week. He could also take it up first thing next Monday if he wanted to.
01-13-2021 03:39 PM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:33 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:26 PM)maximus Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:14 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

Exactly.

This proposed change is nothing but a way to tax the middle class in the disguise of helping the poor.

One of the only ways many middle class family's can build wealth and have a retirement is through a company sponsored 401k and Joe wants to screw with it to try and score political points.

How is this a tax to the middle class?
Newsbreak pal

Im not working my dick off and saving for retirement for somebody else....

Im already doing that, its called social security. They have robbed it down to bare bones, now they are coming for it in other ways.

No effin thank you

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

So don't contribute to your 401k and pay even more taxes. Or contribute Roth 401k and pay them all now.

At the .26 credit people are talking about this only results in paying more taxes if you make more than 326,600 married filing jointly. For people in the 24% tax bracket it should be a break even, and a benefit for anyone making less than 171k married filing jointly.
Look at this folks....

Im the problem and need to change what im doing... what ive been doing for 25 years.

You have the freaking gall to post that, get bent.

How about this buddy

Make it optional, let folks like yourself volunteer to check a box to give these imaginary folks your money. Ill continue to volunteer my time and money to the charities I choose.

Who in the hell do you or anyone else think they are to steal more of what I earn for me and my family.

Get lost

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
01-13-2021 03:55 PM
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No Bull Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:55 PM)maximus Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:33 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:26 PM)maximus Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:14 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  Exactly.

This proposed change is nothing but a way to tax the middle class in the disguise of helping the poor.

One of the only ways many middle class family's can build wealth and have a retirement is through a company sponsored 401k and Joe wants to screw with it to try and score political points.

How is this a tax to the middle class?
Newsbreak pal

Im not working my dick off and saving for retirement for somebody else....

Im already doing that, its called social security. They have robbed it down to bare bones, now they are coming for it in other ways.

No effin thank you

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

So don't contribute to your 401k and pay even more taxes. Or contribute Roth 401k and pay them all now.

At the .26 credit people are talking about this only results in paying more taxes if you make more than 326,600 married filing jointly. For people in the 24% tax bracket it should be a break even, and a benefit for anyone making less than 171k married filing jointly.
Look at this folks....

Im the problem and need to change what im doing... what ive been doing for 25 years.

You have the freaking gall to post that, get bent.

How about this buddy

Make it optional, let folks like yourself volunteer to check a box to give these imaginary folks your money. Ill continue to volunteer my time and money to the charities I choose.

Who in the hell do you or anyone else think they are to steal more of what I earn for me and my family.

Get lost

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Exactly. It is time for Elvis to leave the building.
01-13-2021 04:03 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
03-lmfao

401ks are gonna go to shite under Biden* 10x worse than any tax those retards can enact.

That's the real joke here
01-13-2021 04:11 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, I've been reading up on Biden's 401(k) plan proposal. Apparently he thinks the current set up isn't "fair" because currently the size of the incentive is dependent on earnings. He proposes changing the tax incentive to save for retirement from a deduction to a flat, refundable tax credit. Of course, they make no mention of the fact that those same higher earners are shouldering a higher tax burden.

Thoughts?

Biden was a dummy before dementia ate the best part of his brain---so his idiotic proposal doesnt surprise me. He doesnt understand economics...or much of anything else--even his own campaign. This is a guy who ran on "unity"---yet somehow arrived at the conclusion that spending most of his first 100 days's pursuing a divisive impeachment of a president who is already gone is a great idea. As a nation, I fear we are in for what may be the worst 4 years since the Civil War.

Well, pushing impeachment to the Biden administration is mostly all on Mitch.

But it's hardly going to consume 100 days. The last one only took 20 days total in the senate, and this one will likely last much much less.

Additionally, I've seen some proposals were the new Senate would split their time, working on impeachment for half a day and on other things like COVID relief and vaccine distribution improvement the other half of the day.

Factually false. Impeachment starts in the House. As for the Senate, my understanding is once it reaches the Senate, the Senate has no choice but to immediately address it when the Senate next gathers.

Mitch can resume the senate if he wants before it's scheduled beginning next week. He could also take it up first thing next Monday if he wanted to.

But it’s a impeachment trial for the president of the United States—- not a speed chess match in the park. The idea we need to rush the impeachment so it’s done prior to him leaving office anyway is the ultimate indicator that this is off the rails even by Pelosi standards. Mitch is doing exactly as he should—-conducting it with the proper seriousness and attention that such a proceeding commands.
01-13-2021 04:20 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:57 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I put $19.5k into 401k pre-tax and 26.5k into 401k post tax which including company match puts me at the 57k hard limit and give me a 19.5k deduction which saves me about 6300 in taxes.

The Biden plan would take away the deduction and give me a tax credit. I've seen two numbers for the credit, .20 and .26. At .20 I would pay an extra 1300 in taxes, and at .2 i would pay an extra 2300. I'm good with it if it encourages more retirement saving for low income individuals.

But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

I know a lot of people who make enough to contribute to their 401k, but they spent their money on a nicer truck payment. Hopefully this will encourage savings in some of these people.

Correct...They have the money to make a substantial contribution but dont----despite having access to the current higher potential tax credits. So why would anyone think cutting the rate would encourage contributions by those with the least disposable income.

If you want to help those lower income folks save for retirement, simply pass a law that requires that a tiny portion of their check goes directly to a 401K (inaccessible until retirement age) where the individual would still control the asset allocation (like any 401K plan). Perhaps, as they see the balance grow, they will be encouraged to add more than the minimum. And before you say this is unfair---its a lot more fair than any tax that takes the money from these same citizens and never returns it. This money stays with them. I'd suggest half of one percent and would be applicable to everyone with a slight increase to 1% past a certain income level.

The safe harbor tests for HCEs in 401k plans are trying to do this.
01-13-2021 04:29 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:26 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:14 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:10 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:57 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I put $19.5k into 401k pre-tax and 26.5k into 401k post tax which including company match puts me at the 57k hard limit and give me a 19.5k deduction which saves me about 6300 in taxes.

The Biden plan would take away the deduction and give me a tax credit. I've seen two numbers for the credit, .20 and .26. At .20 I would pay an extra 1300 in taxes, and at .2 i would pay an extra 2300. I'm good with it if it encourages more retirement saving for low income individuals.

But it wont, because you as well as Biden dont understand basic economics. If you cant afford rent or a $400 unexpected expense----you arent failing to contribute to your 401K because the tax credit is too low. Your not contributing because you cant afford to contribute--and if you did come into a little bit of extra money---its not very likely the first option would be to place the extra money into an account you cannot access until 30 to 40 years in the future. Its a naked money grab---and thats all it is--plain and simple.

Exactly.

This proposed change is nothing but a way to tax the middle class in the disguise of helping the poor.

One of the only ways many middle class family's can build wealth and have a retirement is through a company sponsored 401k and Joe wants to screw with it to try and score political points.

How is this a tax to the middle class?

"But detractors of the proposal have noted it would reduce the tax benefit of traditional retirement accounts for married couples earning above $80,250 and earning under $400,000 -- violating the former vice president's pledge to not hike taxes on earners below the $400,000 threshold.

"This increases federal tax on any married couple earning more than $80,000," Paul Swanson, the vice president and head of intermediary distribution at CUNA Mutual Retirement Solutions, told FOX Business."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/bide...ign-pledge

Is this at a .20 credit modifier or a .26? I’ve seen both thrown around, a .26 would be tax positive or neutral up to 320 something thousand married filing jointly.
01-13-2021 04:44 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
Biden plan seems like a shell game where lower earners retirement savings are subsidzed by raising taxes on higher earners. I guess a way to get around that for the higher earners is maybe switching from a Traditional 401k to a Roth 401k?
01-13-2021 04:52 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 04:11 PM)shere khan Wrote:  03-lmfao

401ks are gonna go to shite under Biden* 10x worse than any tax those retards can enact.

That's the real joke here

Elvii's gestation has it all figured out...
01-13-2021 04:59 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 04:52 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Biden plan seems like a shell game where lower earners retirement savings are subsidzed by raising taxes on higher earners. I guess a way to get around that for the higher earners is maybe switching from a Traditional 401k to a Roth 401k?

Moving to Roth is definitely a way around his, as long as you feel solid that a future government is going to honor the “no taxes at withdrawal” promises of this government. Not sure what the legal footing would be to add a tax after withdrawal, but I’m sure they could come up with something.

Throwing out the “will they keep their promise” issue the Roth decision for the first 19.5k in retirement savings should just be based on your current marginal tax bracket and your future expected marginal tax bracket.

The savings order of operations for a lot of people is :
401k up to match (Roth or traditional)
HSA Max
Max out remaining 401k (pre-tax or Roth)
Roth IRA (If able to directly contribute)
Post Tax 401k the Mega Backdoor Roth conversion
01-13-2021 05:01 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 04:52 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Biden plan seems like a shell game where lower earners retirement savings are subsidzed by raising taxes on higher earners. I guess a way to get around that for the higher earners is maybe switching from a Traditional 401k to a Roth 401k?

if ya haven't been in Roth, you're either stupid or your match was the dice roll...

Roth from day 1.....
01-13-2021 05:01 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 05:01 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:52 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Biden plan seems like a shell game where lower earners retirement savings are subsidzed by raising taxes on higher earners. I guess a way to get around that for the higher earners is maybe switching from a Traditional 401k to a Roth 401k?

if ya haven't been in Roth, you're either stupid or your match was the dice roll...

Roth from day 1.....

Or your in a high marginal tax bracket now and expect to retire to a lower one.
01-13-2021 05:02 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 05:01 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:52 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Biden plan seems like a shell game where lower earners retirement savings are subsidzed by raising taxes on higher earners. I guess a way to get around that for the higher earners is maybe switching from a Traditional 401k to a Roth 401k?

Moving to Roth is definitely a way around his, as long as you feel solid that a future government is going to honor the “no taxes at withdrawal” promises of this government. Not sure what the legal footing would be to add a tax after withdrawal, but I’m sure they could come up with something.

Throwing out the “will they keep their promise” issue the Roth decision for the first 19.5k in retirement savings should just be based on your current marginal tax bracket and your future expected marginal tax bracket.

The savings order of operations for a lot of people is :
401k up to match (Roth or traditional)
HSA Max
Max out remaining 401k (pre-tax or Roth)
Roth IRA (If able to directly contribute)
Post Tax 401k the Mega Backdoor Roth conversion

agreed, if plausible....
01-13-2021 05:03 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 02:56 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  
Quote:Additionally, I've seen some proposals were the new Senate would split their time, working on impeachment for half a day and on other things like COVID relief and vaccine distribution improvement the other half of the day.


That is all nice but the Senate must drop everything they are working on until the impeachment hearing is over.

https://www.heritage.org/political-proce...-need-know

Yea, it was Sloe* himself that was pushing that idea (that someone else clearly came up with) because, well, he's an idiot.
01-13-2021 05:17 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
People who want to save will save regardless, this will ultimately screw middleclass which is what dems do best. Keep in mind high wage earners max out on the tax deferred contributions at $19,500 so that's the high end of what middle class would contribute hardly a benefit for Corporate Executives or millionaires.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 05:29 PM by THE NC Herd Fan.)
01-13-2021 05:27 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Biden's 401(k) Plan Proposal
(01-13-2021 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, I've been reading up on Biden's 401(k) plan proposal. Apparently he thinks the current set up isn't "fair" because currently the size of the incentive is dependent on earnings. He proposes changing the tax incentive to save for retirement from a deduction to a flat, refundable tax credit. Of course, they make no mention of the fact that those same higher earners are shouldering a higher tax burden.

Thoughts?

Biden was a dummy before dementia ate the best part of his brain---so his idiotic proposal doesnt surprise me. He doesnt understand economics...or much of anything else--even his own campaign. This is a guy who ran on "unity"---yet somehow arrived at the conclusion that spending most of his first 100 days's pursuing a divisive impeachment of a president who is already gone is a great idea. As a nation, I fear we are in for what may be the worst 4 years since the Civil War.

Well, pushing impeachment to the Biden administration is mostly all on Mitch.

But it's hardly going to consume 100 days. The last one only took 20 days total in the senate, and this one will likely last much much less.

Additionally, I've seen some proposals were the new Senate would split their time, working on impeachment for half a day and on other things like COVID relief and vaccine distribution improvement the other half of the day.

Factually false. Impeachment starts in the House. As for the Senate, my understanding is once it reaches the Senate, the Senate has no choice but to immediately address it when the Senate next gathers.

And they adjourned under unanimous consent, which means they are OUT until Jan.19 unless every single Senator votes to reconvene.

Nothing to do with Mitch, one senator objects, nothing the other 99 can do except perhaps threaten the one or something.

More fake bullschit from the idiot newsreaders on our infotainment "news" channels.
01-13-2021 05:30 PM
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