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monarx Online
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US News Rankings
Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2020 10:27 AM by monarx.)
09-14-2020 10:27 AM
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12thmonarch Offline
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.
09-14-2020 10:35 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Online
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Post: #3
RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.
09-14-2020 10:43 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.
09-14-2020 10:57 AM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #5
RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

While the fact that this crappy ranking isn't associated with academics is making me feel better i have to agree this doesn't help our perception among the ones that are not familiar with ODU. I don't know what percentage of kids and parents pick schools based on these types of polls but we better get our **** sorted.
09-14-2020 11:04 AM
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monarx Online
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.
09-14-2020 11:19 AM
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Chillie Willie Offline
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?
09-14-2020 12:37 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Online
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Post: #8
RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 12:37 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?

Athletic success raises casual recognition and by default perception.
09-14-2020 12:46 PM
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monarx Online
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Post: #9
RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 12:37 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:35 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  Terrible look if its just academics being evaluated for these rankings.

Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?

It definitely has an impact, but I don't think it is a direct impact. Athletic success builds awareness and makes more students, and higher caliber students, want to go to your school, which increases selectivity and GPAs. It also improves student engagement and pride, and increases alumni giving. Those three things will improve your ranking, and those are influenced by athletic success. It also doesnt hurt to have other schools administrators see your name on ESPN, in the NCAA tournament etc alongside some heavy hitters.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2020 01:08 PM by monarx.)
09-14-2020 01:05 PM
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CalODUFan Offline
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Add in Rice and that would bring up the CUSA average. Rice is really the only highly rated academic university in the conference.
09-14-2020 01:50 PM
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monarx Online
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 01:50 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Good news/Bad News

ODU comes in as the 258th best college in the US. If Im reading it correctly, we are back ahead of Regent. Which makes me glad because they bragged in their press release last year that they ranked higher than us.

The bad news: ODU comes in as the 258th best school, which while still ranked, is a drop from a few years ago. We really need to crack the top 200. For comparison:

GMU: 143
UAB:153
VCU:160
UCF: 160
Towson: 196
GSU: 216
ECU: 217
UNCC: 227

We do pretty well against CUSA teams though. Ranking higher than MTSU, Marshall, La Tech, WKU and FAU.

Add in Rice and that would bring up the CUSA average. Rice is really the only highly rated academic university in the conference.

Rice: 16
UAB: 153
FIU: 187
UNCC: 227
UNT: 249
ODU: 258
FAU: 272

Everyone else in CUSA is unranked (which means below 298 in the "National" category).
09-14-2020 02:28 PM
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GhentFan Offline
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RE: US News Rankings
(09-14-2020 01:05 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:37 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:43 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  Academics has almost NOTHING to do with US News Rankings. I have completed their ranking survey and ended up throwing it in the trash because that is what it is....rubbish. There is no real data in the rankings other than admission rate. The bulk of the rankings are based on perception ratings, so people like guidance counselors and college admission officers are asked to share how good they think a school is. There is ZERO correlation to how good of an education you will get at any institution in the US News Rankings.

This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?

It definitely has an impact, but I don't think it is a direct impact. Athletic success builds awareness and makes more students, and higher caliber students, want to go to your school, which increases selectivity and GPAs. It also improves student engagement and pride, and increases alumni giving. Those three things will improve your ranking, and those are influenced by athletic success. It also doesnt hurt to have other schools administrators see your name on ESPN, in the NCAA tournament etc alongside some heavy hitters.
It seems that every year the conversation comes up about sports being a benefit to school rankings and I jump in and call b.s..
Besides, we can see many schools are suffering because they are missing out on the sports revenue. Those institutions are minor league sport franchises that happen to teach classes. I sometimes feel that college sports should be at the club level only and let true minor league football and basket ball leagues develop.
The are so many private schools with not in D1 or even D2 that are ranked far higher than ODU. They depend solely on their academics.

ODU needs to do the following:

1)continue to improve academics
2)make it a mission to direct graduates into higher paying professions with the hopes of more monarch millionaires will be able to donate to the school for further improvements
3) start to beautify the campus. It's not bad, but it's a far cry from where it could be. Kids like pretty shiny. Missing out on the possibility for weddings and more
4) beef up the exec or professional education options in a way that delivers real value to students. Plus it will be a nice profit center for the school
5) better marketing. Parking passes should serve as ads for the school, similar to CNUs, give each graduate a yard sign and/or a window or bumper sticker. 5k graduate a year, that's a whole lot of ads for the school. Partner with the shop yards to hang ODU flaws from the cranes when not in use, similar to the 12th man flags that for flew in Seattle.
6) Advertise successful graduate in the halls of campus. Storme started to that in their halls in 2018. I sent in my profile for Batten but I never visited to see if it was up.
7) improve the partnerships with local businesses, espically the multinationals that have a footprint in the area. I was surprised to hear that Odu had never partnered with my current employer though they have both been in the area for 60+ years. All the interns we received were from big 10, Ivy,Patriot and for some reason Stevens Institute of Technology back in the 60s-70s. I helped change that, having brought in 3 interns in the past 2 years.



Sorry for typos or is unclear. Typed this with one hand while holding my newborn.
09-15-2020 06:36 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Posts: 4,498
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Post: #13
RE: US News Rankings
(09-15-2020 06:36 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 01:05 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:37 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?

It definitely has an impact, but I don't think it is a direct impact. Athletic success builds awareness and makes more students, and higher caliber students, want to go to your school, which increases selectivity and GPAs. It also improves student engagement and pride, and increases alumni giving. Those three things will improve your ranking, and those are influenced by athletic success. It also doesnt hurt to have other schools administrators see your name on ESPN, in the NCAA tournament etc alongside some heavy hitters.
It seems that every year the conversation comes up about sports being a benefit to school rankings and I jump in and call b.s..
Besides, we can see many schools are suffering because they are missing out on the sports revenue. Those institutions are minor league sport franchises that happen to teach classes. I sometimes feel that college sports should be at the club level only and let true minor league football and basket ball leagues develop.
The are so many private schools with not in D1 or even D2 that are ranked far higher than ODU. They depend solely on their academics.

ODU needs to do the following:

1)continue to improve academics
2)make it a mission to direct graduates into higher paying professions with the hopes of more monarch millionaires will be able to donate to the school for further improvements
3) start to beautify the campus. It's not bad, but it's a far cry from where it could be. Kids like pretty shiny. Missing out on the possibility for weddings and more
4) beef up the exec or professional education options in a way that delivers real value to students. Plus it will be a nice profit center for the school
5) better marketing. Parking passes should serve as ads for the school, similar to CNUs, give each graduate a yard sign and/or a window or bumper sticker. 5k graduate a year, that's a whole lot of ads for the school. Partner with the shop yards to hang ODU flaws from the cranes when not in use, similar to the 12th man flags that for flew in Seattle.
6) Advertise successful graduate in the halls of campus. Storme started to that in their halls in 2018. I sent in my profile for Batten but I never visited to see if it was up.
7) improve the partnerships with local businesses, espically the multinationals that have a footprint in the area. I was surprised to hear that Odu had never partnered with my current employer though they have both been in the area for 60+ years. All the interns we received were from big 10, Ivy,Patriot and for some reason Stevens Institute of Technology back in the 60s-70s. I helped change that, having brought in 3 interns in the past 2 years.



Sorry for typos or is unclear. Typed this with one hand while holding my newborn.

+1

I agree and while i think there are efforts being made on point 7 although at a much lower scale (I interned at the Naval Base, NNRHA and Dominion Enterprises as part of a development agreement between my lab and them between 2007 and 09) and we need to keep at it and make it a mission to intertwine with local businesses and community as much as possible. Point no 2 is where i think we are lacking severely and we should make huge efforts to put the students in a high paid career paths and when students are successful the giving back grows and that part we all know how important it is for the growth and success of the school.
09-15-2020 06:52 PM
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monarx Online
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Posts: 7,952
Joined: May 2012
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Post: #14
RE: US News Rankings
(09-15-2020 06:36 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 01:05 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:37 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 11:19 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This may all be true, and the rankings may be useless, but unfortunately perception matters. In many cases, in this short attention span world we live in now, perception is the only thing that matters, and US News is a significant driver of that perception. So we can hate it as much as we want, and ODU can claim it is a bad representation all they want, but at the end of the day, if you aren't playing that game, you are losing ground when it comes to recruiting students, so the ranking matters.

You're both exactly right. The ranking is mostly bogus, BUT, its also incredibly important. This is part of why we don't hear about as many of our own, and our friends, children choosing ODU. I know many who choose JMU, GMU, VCU, CNU... because reputation matters. As my friend's daughter (who grew up wanting to go to ODU) said in her senior year "ODU is for the C+ students who don't have many other options". She chose VCU instead, based almost entirely on perception and rankings. The university I work for spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on rankings maintenance annually, and has people whose full-time job is to monitor and game the rankings, make sure students are happy with the experience, fill out the surveys positively etc. And any adjustment to curriculum, admissions or student experience is lead with the question "how will this affect our ranking". Its a HUGE deal. The faculty, admin and staff all know it. So much so, if we rise in the rankings there are nice celebrations etc. I'm not asking for much, as once you get to a certain level its very hard to move up. But at our level, improving a few criteria, like admissions selectivity, SAT score and GPA, alumni giving percentages, and student experience can result in a big bump of 20-40 spots. The peer evaluation is a longer game, but can also be done. Our administrators get gorgeous (expensive) packages from some schools (including FIU), with the sole purpose of encouraging them to rate their school higher in the peer evaluation for USNWR. But its critical, because perception matters, and USNWR rankings are the most respected rankings. For that reason, if I were ODU, I'd have a huge billboard on I64 touting ODU as "Coastal Virginias top tier national research university. -USNWR" Plain and simple for all those tourists to see. (don't mention the #258 part. :) ) But, truly, being included in the rankings is a big deal too. Id much rather be where we are than unranked like WKU, Marshall, MTSU etc.

How much influence do you think athletic success has on the rankings?

It definitely has an impact, but I don't think it is a direct impact. Athletic success builds awareness and makes more students, and higher caliber students, want to go to your school, which increases selectivity and GPAs. It also improves student engagement and pride, and increases alumni giving. Those three things will improve your ranking, and those are influenced by athletic success. It also doesnt hurt to have other schools administrators see your name on ESPN, in the NCAA tournament etc alongside some heavy hitters.
It seems that every year the conversation comes up about sports being a benefit to school rankings and I jump in and call b.s..
Besides, we can see many schools are suffering because they are missing out on the sports revenue. Those institutions are minor league sport franchises that happen to teach classes. I sometimes feel that college sports should be at the club level only and let true minor league football and basket ball leagues develop.
The are so many private schools with not in D1 or even D2 that are ranked far higher than ODU. They depend solely on their academics.

ODU needs to do the following:

1)continue to improve academics
2)make it a mission to direct graduates into higher paying professions with the hopes of more monarch millionaires will be able to donate to the school for further improvements
3) start to beautify the campus. It's not bad, but it's a far cry from where it could be. Kids like pretty shiny. Missing out on the possibility for weddings and more
4) beef up the exec or professional education options in a way that delivers real value to students. Plus it will be a nice profit center for the school
5) better marketing. Parking passes should serve as ads for the school, similar to CNUs, give each graduate a yard sign and/or a window or bumper sticker. 5k graduate a year, that's a whole lot of ads for the school. Partner with the shop yards to hang ODU flaws from the cranes when not in use, similar to the 12th man flags that for flew in Seattle.
6) Advertise successful graduate in the halls of campus. Storme started to that in their halls in 2018. I sent in my profile for Batten but I never visited to see if it was up.
7) improve the partnerships with local businesses, espically the multinationals that have a footprint in the area. I was surprised to hear that Odu had never partnered with my current employer though they have both been in the area for 60+ years. All the interns we received were from big 10, Ivy,Patriot and for some reason Stevens Institute of Technology back in the 60s-70s. I helped change that, having brought in 3 interns in the past 2 years.



Sorry for typos or is unclear. Typed this with one hand while holding my newborn.

All fantastic suggestions too. I agree with all of them. And many can be done with only a minimal financial investment.

For a school like ODU, the potential turbocharge athletics gives you can push you over the top. We simply aren't going to match Carnegie Melon or Johns Hopkins etc academically. I don't even think the state would lets us, even if our administration wanted to reach that goal. Do you really think VCU or GMU have improved academically 100 places in rankings over the last 10 years? Of course not. GMU and VCU made a F4, which helped tremendously. It gave them a boost and they capitalized on it. In addition, VCU got to add its name to a rather well respected medical school in MCV and GMU has hired some very well regarded faculty. And top faculty know other top faculty/ administrators. If their buddies are hired at a specific school, they have a tendency to rate that school higher in the rankings peer review. But those "top" faculty will only teach at a place that brings in high caliber students and they get paid a ton of money. If ODU made a Final Four and merged with EVMS or added a law school we would likely rise 50+ spots within a year or two. ECUs med school is already paying dividends for them as they're starting to creep up. Coincidently, they are also playing sports on TV more in the AAC, which builds brand awareness and makes a certain demographic of potential student more inclined to apply and enroll.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2020 08:48 PM by monarx.)
09-15-2020 08:44 PM
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