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2021 US News College Rankings
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Bear Catlett Online
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Post: #21
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
Every year this comes out. Every year everyone craps themselves over it. Every year nothing ever comes of it.
09-15-2020 11:42 AM
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8BitPirate Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
ECU, Memphis and Hitachi posing for "We Smart" campaign.

[Image: e641b3b2-9960-44ea-9d46-9784dcf843d5.__C..._V1___.jpg]
09-15-2020 12:56 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
[Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis
09-15-2020 05:32 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

It's actually 56%
09-16-2020 12:23 AM
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Memphis Yankee Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!
09-16-2020 12:35 AM
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LostInSpace Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

it is the side effect of being in a major city and a public school..city schools have students who can stay home and take their time..and its easier to take breaks when you are commuting from close to home...its harder when you moved to out of nowhere, taking a break means up-heaving your whole life..

10 years ago houston was unranked in us news (only ranked top 180-ish at the time i thnk) but was ranked top 80 in the us in the ARWU rankings ... the difference is arwu is based off academic accomplishments/endowments/accomplishments of graduates does not account for graduation rates , more measures where will you get the best academics ...houston 10 years ago had arguable the worst 4 year grad rate in the nation...because usnews became "the standard" UH has become obsessed with improving 4 year grad rates and been slowly improving in that regard

Median household income:
Elon: $208k
Temple: $98k
Houston: $58k

That’s the answer to why Elon has a higher graduation rate and a higher ranking. Lower income students are much more likely to not enroll directly out of high school, are much more likely to experience financial difficulties that cause them to disenroll, and they are much more likely to be a parent while attending college. Schools that enroll larger numbers of lower income students have a much more challenging task to graduate students than a rich kid finishing school like Elon.

US News methodology has always been hot garbage and the trend has been to revise it consistently in ways that favor private universities that enroll affluent students.

Schools like Temple and Houston deserve credit for raising graduation rates while continuing to promote social mobility for lower and middle income students, something that “elite” private universities do very little of because they enroll such an infinitesimally small number of low income students.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2020 09:50 AM by LostInSpace.)
09-16-2020 09:46 AM
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invisiblehand Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-14-2020 09:04 PM)rollgreenwave Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 09:45 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 09:38 AM)SMUleopold Wrote:  We are actually going backwards. For all the good Turner has done, and to be honest he hasn't been given enough credit for what he's done, we are moving backwards in rankings and it's hurting us.

I know Tulsa was hurt tremendously by a reduction in the importance of the alumni giving rate. I think they reduced the weight of that input some more this year as well. I'd imagine that's hurting SMU too.
They also added a factor for the percent of students who are from low income backgrounds. I assume it hurts private schools some, particularly those with a lot of wealthy students.

Didn't seem to hurt SMU.... that's their entire student body.
09-16-2020 09:59 AM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 12:35 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!

That does remind me of the joke:

"How do you know somebody went to Harvard?"

"They tell you within five minutes of meeting you."

Also works for "How do you know somebody's a vegetarian"

USFFan
09-16-2020 10:24 AM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 09:46 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

it is the side effect of being in a major city and a public school..city schools have students who can stay home and take their time..and its easier to take breaks when you are commuting from close to home...its harder when you moved to out of nowhere, taking a break means up-heaving your whole life..

10 years ago houston was unranked in us news (only ranked top 180-ish at the time i thnk) but was ranked top 80 in the us in the ARWU rankings ... the difference is arwu is based off academic accomplishments/endowments/accomplishments of graduates does not account for graduation rates , more measures where will you get the best academics ...houston 10 years ago had arguable the worst 4 year grad rate in the nation...because usnews became "the standard" UH has become obsessed with improving 4 year grad rates and been slowly improving in that regard

Median household income:
Elon: $208k
Temple: $98k
Houston: $58k

That’s the answer to why Elon has a higher graduation rate and a higher ranking. Lower income students are much more likely to not enroll directly out of high school, are much more likely to experience financial difficulties that cause them to disenroll, and they are much more likely to be a parent while attending college. Schools that enroll larger numbers of lower income students have a much more challenging task to graduate students than a rich kid finishing school like Elon.

US News methodology has always been hot garbage and the trend has been to revise it consistently in ways that favor private universities that enroll affluent students.

Schools like Temple and Houston deserve credit for raising graduation rates while continuing to promote social mobility for lower and middle income students, something that “elite” private universities do very little of because they enroll such an infinitesimally small number of low income students.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=12221156]

USFFan
09-16-2020 10:25 AM
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pesik Online
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Post: #30
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 12:23 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

It's actually 56%

i just used the first number google gave me (from college factual)...not sure whre your number is from but the number USNEWS is using doesnt match either..the number they used is 52%, which is on their site
09-16-2020 10:34 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 10:24 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 12:35 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!

That does remind me of the joke:

"How do you know somebody went to Harvard?"

"They tell you within five minutes of meeting you."

Also works for "How do you know somebody's a vegetarian"

USFFan

Or marine corps....or from Texas. Lol
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2020 03:03 PM by shere khan.)
09-16-2020 03:02 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 12:35 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!

Me either but they admit a metric shittone of idiots and milk them for a year or two until they flunk out gettin that guberment money. They post on on mt.org.

That's a fact. Graduates are rarely morons.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2020 03:07 PM by shere khan.)
09-16-2020 03:06 PM
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Enriquillo Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 10:25 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 09:46 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

it is the side effect of being in a major city and a public school..city schools have students who can stay home and take their time..and its easier to take breaks when you are commuting from close to home...its harder when you moved to out of nowhere, taking a break means up-heaving your whole life..

10 years ago houston was unranked in us news (only ranked top 180-ish at the time i thnk) but was ranked top 80 in the us in the ARWU rankings ... the difference is arwu is based off academic accomplishments/endowments/accomplishments of graduates does not account for graduation rates , more measures where will you get the best academics ...houston 10 years ago had arguable the worst 4 year grad rate in the nation...because usnews became "the standard" UH has become obsessed with improving 4 year grad rates and been slowly improving in that regard

Median household income:
Elon: $208k
Temple: $98k
Houston: $58k

That’s the answer to why Elon has a higher graduation rate and a higher ranking. Lower income students are much more likely to not enroll directly out of high school, are much more likely to experience financial difficulties that cause them to disenroll, and they are much more likely to be a parent while attending college. Schools that enroll larger numbers of lower income students have a much more challenging task to graduate students than a rich kid finishing school like Elon.

US News methodology has always been hot garbage and the trend has been to revise it consistently in ways that favor private universities that enroll affluent students.

Schools like Temple and Houston deserve credit for raising graduation rates while continuing to promote social mobility for lower and middle income students, something that “elite” private universities do very little of because they enroll such an infinitesimally small number of low income students.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=12221156]

USFFan

Temple has actually had to sacrifice a certain amount of the social betterment stuff in order to play the ranking game. I remember a WSU poster once writing that WSU refuses to play it. While it somewhat depends on the respective BODs aspirations, I'm not sure WSU could play the ranking game even if it wanted to. Geography and funding matter. (That's not to say that WSU doesn't have really good programs or that its degrees are not respected.)

The one that I think could play the game if they put their minds to it is ECU. They have a medical school for goodness sakes! Something tells me UNC plays an evil role in this.
09-16-2020 04:12 PM
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Huskies12 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 10:24 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 12:35 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!

That does remind me of the joke:

"How do you know somebody went to Harvard?"

"They tell you within five minutes of meeting you."

Also works for "How do you know somebody's a vegetarian"

USFFan

Harvard grads aren't even that bad in Cambridge/Allston. Its BC fans that get that joke
09-17-2020 07:13 AM
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Post: #35
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
It is easy to find 8 or more rankings that disagree with USNews by large amounts.

The CNBC ranking has much more relevance to the real World than USNews.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/the-top-...-2020.html
The top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the most in 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/how-we-r...-2020.html
How we ranked the top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the ...
09-17-2020 11:06 AM
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bullsbucsfan426 Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 04:12 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 10:25 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 09:46 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 03:31 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  idk how we aren't top 100 yet. Elon being in the top 90 really bothers me.

i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

it is the side effect of being in a major city and a public school..city schools have students who can stay home and take their time..and its easier to take breaks when you are commuting from close to home...its harder when you moved to out of nowhere, taking a break means up-heaving your whole life..

10 years ago houston was unranked in us news (only ranked top 180-ish at the time i thnk) but was ranked top 80 in the us in the ARWU rankings ... the difference is arwu is based off academic accomplishments/endowments/accomplishments of graduates does not account for graduation rates , more measures where will you get the best academics ...houston 10 years ago had arguable the worst 4 year grad rate in the nation...because usnews became "the standard" UH has become obsessed with improving 4 year grad rates and been slowly improving in that regard

Median household income:
Elon: $208k
Temple: $98k
Houston: $58k

That’s the answer to why Elon has a higher graduation rate and a higher ranking. Lower income students are much more likely to not enroll directly out of high school, are much more likely to experience financial difficulties that cause them to disenroll, and they are much more likely to be a parent while attending college. Schools that enroll larger numbers of lower income students have a much more challenging task to graduate students than a rich kid finishing school like Elon.

US News methodology has always been hot garbage and the trend has been to revise it consistently in ways that favor private universities that enroll affluent students.

Schools like Temple and Houston deserve credit for raising graduation rates while continuing to promote social mobility for lower and middle income students, something that “elite” private universities do very little of because they enroll such an infinitesimally small number of low income students.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=12221156]

USFFan

Temple has actually had to sacrifice a certain amount of the social betterment stuff in order to play the ranking game. I remember a WSU poster once writing that WSU refuses to play it. While it somewhat depends on the respective BODs aspirations, I'm not sure WSU could play the ranking game even if it wanted to. Geography and funding matter. (That's not to say that WSU doesn't have really good programs or that its degrees are not respected.)

The one that I think could play the game if they put their minds to it is ECU. They have a medical school for goodness sakes! Something tells me UNC plays an evil role in this.

Not to poke, but USF had this same problem and overcame it. About a decade ago in undergrad I was on a USF committee with a bunch of professors that made the four and six year graduation rates a priority. They basically made the priority directly working with the students from underprivileged backgrounds by getting said students to get all their classes in on time and getting them priority for needed classes. USF has succeeded by focusing on keeping these students on target while letting those who are more capable go on and do as they need to do (because they were going to graduate on time anyway). ECU and Wichita State could both take this approach and should study the USF model.
09-17-2020 04:49 PM
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I_LUV_MEMPHISTIGERS Offline
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Post: #37
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-16-2020 12:35 AM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 05:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  [Image: stooge-uation.jpg]
Hitachi, ECU, Memphis

Memphis Baby! My Memphis degree never hindered my success as a businessman. I never once even had anyone ever ask me where I went to school. F Harvard grads. The dumbest ass Director of Manufacturing I ever dealt with was a Stanford grad. F'n idiot!

My last Controller over Autozone told me of an Ivy League co--worker was bragging when he was working with at a Professional Accounting Firm.

"Well. I went to Delta State, you for damn sure are not going to outwork me."
09-17-2020 05:30 PM
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natibeast21 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-17-2020 11:06 AM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  It is easy to find 8 or more rankings that disagree with USNews by large amounts.

The CNBC ranking has much more relevance to the real World than USNews.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/the-top-...-2020.html
The top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the most in 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/how-we-r...-2020.html
How we ranked the top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the ...

Not knocking the list if you read how they rank, but Houston the #7 public university?

I would say has to do more of location than anything else.

Cough cough oil oil oil oil oil + Houston being a great city for graduates in general
09-17-2020 06:57 PM
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
(09-17-2020 04:49 PM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 04:12 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 10:25 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(09-16-2020 09:46 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 04:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  i was explaining this earlier.. 25% of the equation usnews uses is pure graduation rate...
temple has a 43% 4 year graduation rate..elon has a 80% 4 year graduation rate

it is the side effect of being in a major city and a public school..city schools have students who can stay home and take their time..and its easier to take breaks when you are commuting from close to home...its harder when you moved to out of nowhere, taking a break means up-heaving your whole life..

10 years ago houston was unranked in us news (only ranked top 180-ish at the time i thnk) but was ranked top 80 in the us in the ARWU rankings ... the difference is arwu is based off academic accomplishments/endowments/accomplishments of graduates does not account for graduation rates , more measures where will you get the best academics ...houston 10 years ago had arguable the worst 4 year grad rate in the nation...because usnews became "the standard" UH has become obsessed with improving 4 year grad rates and been slowly improving in that regard

Median household income:
Elon: $208k
Temple: $98k
Houston: $58k

That’s the answer to why Elon has a higher graduation rate and a higher ranking. Lower income students are much more likely to not enroll directly out of high school, are much more likely to experience financial difficulties that cause them to disenroll, and they are much more likely to be a parent while attending college. Schools that enroll larger numbers of lower income students have a much more challenging task to graduate students than a rich kid finishing school like Elon.

US News methodology has always been hot garbage and the trend has been to revise it consistently in ways that favor private universities that enroll affluent students.

Schools like Temple and Houston deserve credit for raising graduation rates while continuing to promote social mobility for lower and middle income students, something that “elite” private universities do very little of because they enroll such an infinitesimally small number of low income students.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=12221156]

USFFan

Temple has actually had to sacrifice a certain amount of the social betterment stuff in order to play the ranking game. I remember a WSU poster once writing that WSU refuses to play it. While it somewhat depends on the respective BODs aspirations, I'm not sure WSU could play the ranking game even if it wanted to. Geography and funding matter. (That's not to say that WSU doesn't have really good programs or that its degrees are not respected.)

The one that I think could play the game if they put their minds to it is ECU. They have a medical school for goodness sakes! Something tells me UNC plays an evil role in this.

Not to poke, but USF had this same problem and overcame it. About a decade ago in undergrad I was on a USF committee with a bunch of professors that made the four and six year graduation rates a priority. They basically made the priority directly working with the students from underprivileged backgrounds by getting said students to get all their classes in on time and getting them priority for needed classes. USF has succeeded by focusing on keeping these students on target while letting those who are more capable go on and do as they need to do (because they were going to graduate on time anyway). ECU and Wichita State could both take this approach and should study the USF model.

This has been commonplace practice in public universities for a while, especially urban R1s. When people rail against the proliferation of administrators on college campuses they are in part screaming about the non-teaching staff who’ve been hired to do things like academic advising and guiding first gen students through to graduation. Temple has done the same thing. Temple’s core recruiting area has higher median income than either USF or Houston so I’m not surprised that Temple students have higher household income though.

I have limited evidence but I agree with Enriquillo that Temple’s undergrad body has changed a bit. I’m not sure how much it’s intentional by Temple and how much it’s suburban high school grads voluntarily choosing Temple because it’s less expensive and offers equal value over more expensive private colleges which they may have chosen in the past and of which there are many in PA. It’s likely a bit of both.
09-17-2020 10:20 PM
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HoustonRocks Offline
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RE: 2021 US News College Rankings
"Not knocking the list if you read how they rank, but Houston the #7 public university?"

If people doubt UH's #7 rank in the CNBC list, then surely they must
also doubt UH's #1 on The Princeton Review and Entrepreneur’s list of
Top 50 Best Undergrad Programs for Entrepreneurs in 2020 (No. 1 in
2008, 2010, 2011 and 2020)

https://www.bauer.uh.edu/wce/

Seems those two ranking are related.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2020 08:52 AM by HoustonRocks.)
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