The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-07-2020 12:32 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The difference is that our Athletic admin accepts average to above average performance for far to long. They are happy to spend a decade with coaches that are not going to push their programs to the next tier. We will never excell until our admin demands excellence, and values it more than they value stability. We have seen this in a number of programs. Off the top of my head, basketball, baseball, and football. None of those coaches are/were terrible, but it was/has been apparent for years that those coaches had/have a ceiling. In my opinion, when you recognize that a coach has a ceiling, and they have reached that ceiling, and that ceiling is not as high as it could be, then it is time to move on regardless of affinity, or singular successes that have been achieved over their tenure. Yes BW was good early and has some successes that you could point to as an excuse to keep him around, but it became clear well before they fired him, that he would not elevate the program at the FBS level. Yes JJ went to the NIT Final Four, got the team ranked for one week, and made an NCAAT, but it is obvious what his ceiling is at this point, and it is not as high as that program should aspire to. Yes Finwood has improved the baseball program, but it is clear where the ceiling is, and it is not as high as that program could go.

Broderick retiring may be the best change for ODU athletics in a while. We just gotta see who replaces him first.

Yeah, I have really been holding out hope that his retirement sets us on a different course.

(12-07-2020 12:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 12:32 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The difference is that our Athletic admin accepts average to above average performance for far to long. They are happy to spend a decade with coaches that are not going to push their programs to the next tier. We will never excell until our admin demands excellence, and values it more than they value stability. We have seen this in a number of programs. Off the top of my head, basketball, baseball, and football. None of those coaches are/were terrible, but it was/has been apparent for years that those coaches had/have a ceiling. In my opinion, when you recognize that a coach has a ceiling, and they have reached that ceiling, and that ceiling is not as high as it could be, then it is time to move on regardless of affinity, or singular successes that have been achieved over their tenure. Yes BW was good early and has some successes that you could point to as an excuse to keep him around, but it became clear well before they fired him, that he would not elevate the program at the FBS level. Yes JJ went to the NIT Final Four, got the team ranked for one week, and made an NCAAT, but it is obvious what his ceiling is at this point, and it is not as high as that program should aspire to. Yes Finwood has improved the baseball program, but it is clear where the ceiling is, and it is not as high as that program could go.

Broderick retiring may be the best change for ODU athletics in a while. We just gotta see who replaces him first.

I don’t know about that. Broderick seemed to champion athletics. He’s a fan and takes personal interest in the players. I think Wood would be better off in a fundraising role and someone else manage the actual athletics programs.

There is a difference in being interested in athletics, and being determined to win at a really high level. This is pure hypothetical for the purpose of illustrating the point, but maybe JB loves sports, and enjoys being around the programs, but also forges close relationships with coaches and that keeps him from making the cutthroat decisions needed when it comes to firing people. Or maybe he is just a college athletics altruist who loves the sports and the teams, but is more interested in how we perform off the court than how many championships we win on the court. Maybe success for him, as is the case with many who post here, is defined by having a lot of good kids on our teams and "doing it the right way". I don't know if any of that describes JB, but they are possible explanations for how someone loves college sports, but doesn't make the moves required to really elevate a program.

As far as Wood, you are spot on. That dude is nothing more than a salesman and should be employed in a fund raising capacity rather than a CEO of athletics capacity.

(12-07-2020 12:05 PM)monarx Wrote:  Had this conversation with a fellow Monarch fan recently. At the level ODU is at now, if another school isnt trying to hire our coaches away within 5 years, they probably aren't very good. The key for us to be successful, is hiring coaches who are so good, P5s throw money at them and take them from us. Then the trick is to repeat the cycle over and over again, getting new coaches that are just as good, only under the radar. Our AD needs to recruit coaches at a high level just like coaches need to recruit players. JJ and BW were both here too long. The womens team seems to be on the right track. Hopefully we keep our new womens and football coaches 5 or 6 seasons and then they are hired away by P5s. That will mean we have had some good success.

I think that's a little simplistic. Obviously if people are trying to hire away your coach, it's a good sign, but you can also be successful with a coach that larger programs aren't always trying to poach. Was BT ever seriously connected with any jobs other than Utah and Wyoming, the latter of which would have been a lateral move at best? Nobody was trying to hire Mooney away at Richmond (and their fans were trying to un-hire him), but now they're in the top 20.

The other part of your formula, hiring the next good coach, isn't as easy as that. VCU has been doing it since Capel left for Oklahoma but they had that Villa 7 consortium for top assistants that really helped grease the skids for them until their successful former coaches had coaching trees to pluck fruit from. And they're hardly the rule. Look at how hard Middle Tennessee basketball fell after Kermit Davis left. Saint Louis was fortunate to get Majerus but they were up and down as they moved coaches out after three or four years.

In retrospect, BW should have gone sooner. But he built a lot of goodwill with the quick success in FCS and the first few years of FBS. If ODU had fired him a year after taking a nascent program to its first bowl, it would have made it harder for them to hire someone knowing that years of strong performance can be wiped clean with one down season (again, acknowledging that in retrospect, it was the beginning of the end and not an aberration, as many of us had hoped).

This is, or should be, JJ's ****-or-get-off-the-pot year, though I suppose that COVID could keep the door open to keeping him so long as they're not a single-digit win team.

(12-07-2020 12:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 12:32 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The difference is that our Athletic admin accepts average to above average performance for far to long. They are happy to spend a decade with coaches that are not going to push their programs to the next tier. We will never excell until our admin demands excellence, and values it more than they value stability. We have seen this in a number of programs. Off the top of my head, basketball, baseball, and football. None of those coaches are/were terrible, but it was/has been apparent for years that those coaches had/have a ceiling. In my opinion, when you recognize that a coach has a ceiling, and they have reached that ceiling, and that ceiling is not as high as it could be, then it is time to move on regardless of affinity, or singular successes that have been achieved over their tenure. Yes BW was good early and has some successes that you could point to as an excuse to keep him around, but it became clear well before they fired him, that he would not elevate the program at the FBS level. Yes JJ went to the NIT Final Four, got the team ranked for one week, and made an NCAAT, but it is obvious what his ceiling is at this point, and it is not as high as that program should aspire to. Yes Finwood has improved the baseball program, but it is clear where the ceiling is, and it is not as high as that program could go.

Broderick retiring may be the best change for ODU athletics in a while. We just gotta see who replaces him first.

I don’t know about that. Broderick seemed to champion athletics. He’s a fan and takes personal interest in the players. I think Wood would be better off in a fundraising role and someone else manage the actual athletics programs.

I would say more but I don’t think I want to get into that discussion right now. Just know that some of what MB cited is not in Wood’s control.

(12-06-2020 02:35 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:20 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:15 AM)jaybird44 Wrote:  I'm watching coastal have a dream year. I see vcu basketball and george Mason make it to final four. I really want that for odu. I have lived and died with them for 43 years. The university is a class organization and has wonderful fans. I can't wait to see us catch lightning in a bottle. Odu has come a long way and I feel like we haven't scratched the surface yet on what our athletic achievements can be. I hope to see it. Beating virginia tech a couple of years ago has spoiled me a bit, but I can't help it, I've fallen in love with odu sports and I want nothing but the best.

Same. I thought if any of the recent move up had a chance to be in the top 25 by now it would have been us. Instead, App, CCU and LU have been ranked, and even Charlotte and GSU go to more bowl games. I cant quite figure out how we let that happen.

Tough call EARLY on for the admin. How do you replace a head coach that had been almost deified by so many.
But....the signs were there very early.

As far as defense was concerned. I believe that the Bill Dee experiment should have been the first major red flag as to BWs inability to recognize what was needed in a Coordinator. (2012)
Then, at least for me, the UMD game was really the first time I realized that our vanilla offensive scheme, and an inability to even try to make any sort of in-game adjustment whatsoever, (w/o a comprehensive run attack and NOTHING in the middle) was the second red flag. It was a P5, and we would likely have lost anyway, so many people didn't notice or overlooked the details.

The Shuler Bentley fiasco was the third red flag, with David Washington admittedly being one of the few times we were able to make a viable adjustment on either side of the ball. This head scratching scenario was repeated almost identically with SW/BL later on.

2017 was a season, based on recruits, what should have been our best yet in FBS, but it was pretty much a disaster. We continued with the SB mentality by throwing Williams to the dogs too soon.
However, the final straw for me was the management of the Liberty game and what it said about our preparation for the 2018 season as a whole. Had there been a qualified assistant, we should have, IMHO, made an in-season change immediately after that game.

(Underlying all of this was a seeming inability to develop a consistent offensive line since 2013, and a general weakness in recruiting at FBS)

So....
Hindsight is great, and we probably should have strongly considered a change right after the UNC game in 2013. Unfortunately, that would have been a PR nightmare.
However, a more realistic scenario would have been to to make the change right after the 2017 season, but we didn't.

Marshall is facing the same dilemma right now.

I think Bill Dee was hired more for the recruiting inroads to Phoebus and Oscar Smith High Schools. And I'm sure that as a very successful head coach (Highschool) it was thought he would thrive at his defensive coordinator position.

No comment about the Maryland game except for the fact I never expected to win that one. Shuler Bentley, at least in high school, looked like a Taylor Heinicke clone. That's of course when we ran a think fast, play fast spread offense....Why did we go away from that?

(12-07-2020 02:41 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 02:35 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:20 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:15 AM)jaybird44 Wrote:  I'm watching coastal have a dream year. I see vcu basketball and george Mason make it to final four. I really want that for odu. I have lived and died with them for 43 years. The university is a class organization and has wonderful fans. I can't wait to see us catch lightning in a bottle. Odu has come a long way and I feel like we haven't scratched the surface yet on what our athletic achievements can be. I hope to see it. Beating virginia tech a couple of years ago has spoiled me a bit, but I can't help it, I've fallen in love with odu sports and I want nothing but the best.

Same. I thought if any of the recent move up had a chance to be in the top 25 by now it would have been us. Instead, App, CCU and LU have been ranked, and even Charlotte and GSU go to more bowl games. I cant quite figure out how we let that happen.

Tough call EARLY on for the admin. How do you replace a head coach that had been almost deified by so many.
But....the signs were there very early.

As far as defense was concerned. I believe that the Bill Dee experiment should have been the first major red flag as to BWs inability to recognize what was needed in a Coordinator. (2012)
Then, at least for me, the UMD game was really the first time I realized that our vanilla offensive scheme, and an inability to even try to make any sort of in-game adjustment whatsoever, (w/o a comprehensive run attack and NOTHING in the middle) was the second red flag. It was a P5, and we would likely have lost anyway, so many people didn't notice or overlooked the details.

The Shuler Bentley fiasco was the third red flag, with David Washington admittedly being one of the few times we were able to make a viable adjustment on either side of the ball. This head scratching scenario was repeated almost identically with SW/BL later on.

2017 was a season, based on recruits, what should have been our best yet in FBS, but it was pretty much a disaster. We continued with the SB mentality by throwing Williams to the dogs too soon.
However, the final straw for me was the management of the Liberty game and what it said about our preparation for the 2018 season as a whole. Had there been a qualified assistant, we should have, IMHO, made an in-season change immediately after that game.

(Underlying all of this was a seeming inability to develop a consistent offensive line since 2013, and a general weakness in recruiting at FBS)

So....
Hindsight is great, and we probably should have strongly considered a change right after the UNC game in 2013. Unfortunately, that would have been a PR nightmare.
However, a more realistic scenario would have been to to make the change right after the 2017 season, but we didn't.

Marshall is facing the same dilemma right now.

I think Bill Dee was hired more for the recruiting inroads to Phoebus and Oscar Smith High Schools. And I'm sure that as a very successful head coach (Highschool) it was thought he would thrive at his defensive coordinator position.

No comment about the Maryland game except for the fact I never expected to win that one. Shuler Bentley, at least in high school, looked like a Taylor Heinicke clone. That's of course when we ran a think fast, play fast spread offense....Why did we go away from that?

I was never sold on Bentley even before he played a down here. What I saw on film was a strong arm who could throw it to receivers that were substantially faster than their opponents. He put up the ball and they ran under it, past the coverage.

We went away from that for primarily two reasons.
1) That simplistic spread worked because TH was a master of the broken play. His instincts were incredible. So many, if indeed not most, of our great gains in that era were on extended plays to fantastic receivers. No other QB we have ever had could extend a play like that.
2) As we moved up in competition we had to try to protect what little defense we had. We needed to keep them off the field as long as possible.

(12-07-2020 03:18 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 02:41 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 02:35 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:20 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:15 AM)jaybird44 Wrote:  I'm watching coastal have a dream year. I see vcu basketball and george Mason make it to final four. I really want that for odu. I have lived and died with them for 43 years. The university is a class organization and has wonderful fans. I can't wait to see us catch lightning in a bottle. Odu has come a long way and I feel like we haven't scratched the surface yet on what our athletic achievements can be. I hope to see it. Beating virginia tech a couple of years ago has spoiled me a bit, but I can't help it, I've fallen in love with odu sports and I want nothing but the best.

Same. I thought if any of the recent move up had a chance to be in the top 25 by now it would have been us. Instead, App, CCU and LU have been ranked, and even Charlotte and GSU go to more bowl games. I cant quite figure out how we let that happen.

Tough call EARLY on for the admin. How do you replace a head coach that had been almost deified by so many.
But....the signs were there very early.

As far as defense was concerned. I believe that the Bill Dee experiment should have been the first major red flag as to BWs inability to recognize what was needed in a Coordinator. (2012)
Then, at least for me, the UMD game was really the first time I realized that our vanilla offensive scheme, and an inability to even try to make any sort of in-game adjustment whatsoever, (w/o a comprehensive run attack and NOTHING in the middle) was the second red flag. It was a P5, and we would likely have lost anyway, so many people didn't notice or overlooked the details.

The Shuler Bentley fiasco was the third red flag, with David Washington admittedly being one of the few times we were able to make a viable adjustment on either side of the ball. This head scratching scenario was repeated almost identically with SW/BL later on.

2017 was a season, based on recruits, what should have been our best yet in FBS, but it was pretty much a disaster. We continued with the SB mentality by throwing Williams to the dogs too soon.
However, the final straw for me was the management of the Liberty game and what it said about our preparation for the 2018 season as a whole. Had there been a qualified assistant, we should have, IMHO, made an in-season change immediately after that game.

(Underlying all of this was a seeming inability to develop a consistent offensive line since 2013, and a general weakness in recruiting at FBS)

So....
Hindsight is great, and we probably should have strongly considered a change right after the UNC game in 2013. Unfortunately, that would have been a PR nightmare.
However, a more realistic scenario would have been to to make the change right after the 2017 season, but we didn't.

Marshall is facing the same dilemma right now.

I think Bill Dee was hired more for the recruiting inroads to Phoebus and Oscar Smith High Schools. And I'm sure that as a very successful head coach (Highschool) it was thought he would thrive at his defensive coordinator position.

No comment about the Maryland game except for the fact I never expected to win that one. Shuler Bentley, at least in high school, looked like a Taylor Heinicke clone. That's of course when we ran a think fast, play fast spread offense....Why did we go away from that?

I was never sold on Bentley even before he played a down here. What I saw on film was a strong arm who could throw it to receivers that were substantially faster than their opponents. He put up the ball and they ran under it, past the coverage.

We went away from that for primarily two reasons.
1) That simplistic spread worked because TH was a master of the broken play. His instincts were incredible. So many, if indeed not most, of our great gains in that era were on extended plays to fantastic receivers. No other QB we have ever had could extend a play like that.
2) As we moved up in competition we had to try to protect what little defense we had. We needed to keep them off the field as long as possible.

Although, no doubt, you make a great point about TH's uncanny ability to extend plays; I believe the speed of our offense and the ability to rotate fresh receivers in was more key to our early successes. And I know this will be controversial, but I consider a David Washington to be the type of quarterback we should try to recruit. I think, honestly, we went away from the spread offense in order to showcase Ray Lawry. Bobby Wilder went back to the Maine type of offence, (because that's all he's ever known).

(12-07-2020 04:22 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 03:18 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 02:41 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 02:35 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(12-06-2020 12:20 AM)monarx Wrote:  Same. I thought if any of the recent move up had a chance to be in the top 25 by now it would have been us. Instead, App, CCU and LU have been ranked, and even Charlotte and GSU go to more bowl games. I cant quite figure out how we let that happen.

Tough call EARLY on for the admin. How do you replace a head coach that had been almost deified by so many.
But....the signs were there very early.

As far as defense was concerned. I believe that the Bill Dee experiment should have been the first major red flag as to BWs inability to recognize what was needed in a Coordinator. (2012)
Then, at least for me, the UMD game was really the first time I realized that our vanilla offensive scheme, and an inability to even try to make any sort of in-game adjustment whatsoever, (w/o a comprehensive run attack and NOTHING in the middle) was the second red flag. It was a P5, and we would likely have lost anyway, so many people didn't notice or overlooked the details.

The Shuler Bentley fiasco was the third red flag, with David Washington admittedly being one of the few times we were able to make a viable adjustment on either side of the ball. This head scratching scenario was repeated almost identically with SW/BL later on.

2017 was a season, based on recruits, what should have been our best yet in FBS, but it was pretty much a disaster. We continued with the SB mentality by throwing Williams to the dogs too soon.
However, the final straw for me was the management of the Liberty game and what it said about our preparation for the 2018 season as a whole. Had there been a qualified assistant, we should have, IMHO, made an in-season change immediately after that game.

(Underlying all of this was a seeming inability to develop a consistent offensive line since 2013, and a general weakness in recruiting at FBS)

So....
Hindsight is great, and we probably should have strongly considered a change right after the UNC game in 2013. Unfortunately, that would have been a PR nightmare.
However, a more realistic scenario would have been to to make the change right after the 2017 season, but we didn't.

Marshall is facing the same dilemma right now.

I think Bill Dee was hired more for the recruiting inroads to Phoebus and Oscar Smith High Schools. And I'm sure that as a very successful head coach (Highschool) it was thought he would thrive at his defensive coordinator position.

No comment about the Maryland game except for the fact I never expected to win that one. Shuler Bentley, at least in high school, looked like a Taylor Heinicke clone. That's of course when we ran a think fast, play fast spread offense....Why did we go away from that?

I was never sold on Bentley even before he played a down here. What I saw on film was a strong arm who could throw it to receivers that were substantially faster than their opponents. He put up the ball and they ran under it, past the coverage.

We went away from that for primarily two reasons.
1) That simplistic spread worked because TH was a master of the broken play. His instincts were incredible. So many, if indeed not most, of our great gains in that era were on extended plays to fantastic receivers. No other QB we have ever had could extend a play like that.
2) As we moved up in competition we had to try to protect what little defense we had. We needed to keep them off the field as long as possible.

Although, no doubt, you make a great point about TH's uncanny ability to extend plays; I believe the speed of our offense and the ability to rotate fresh receivers in was more key to our early successes. And I know this will be controversial, but I consider a David Washington to be the type of quarterback we should try to recruit. I think, honestly, we went away from the spread offense in order to showcase Ray Lawry. Bobby Wilder went back to the Maine type of offence, (because that's all he's ever known).

But Ray Lowry was one of the bright spots on the team. I totally get that. Just like how we have to lean on LaLa (and likely the new RB from PSU) until we get a decent QB, Oline and someone to catch the ball.

The Maine offense was what we ran here. They ran spread, which is why thats the offense he brought with us.

We never changed being a spread offense, they just slowed it down. The reason they slowed it down was because our defense would get gashed non stop. They weren't talent to start but then when you possess the ball for 2 minutes and gas them, they got worse.

(12-07-2020 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The difference is that our Athletic admin accepts average to above average performance for far to long. They are happy to spend a decade with coaches that are not going to push their programs to the next tier. We will never excell until our admin demands excellence, and values it more than they value stability. We have seen this in a number of programs. Off the top of my head, basketball, baseball, and football. None of those coaches are/were terrible, but it was/has been apparent for years that those coaches had/have a ceiling. In my opinion, when you recognize that a coach has a ceiling, and they have reached that ceiling, and that ceiling is not as high as it could be, then it is time to move on regardless of affinity, or singular successes that have been achieved over their tenure. Yes BW was good early and has some successes that you could point to as an excuse to keep him around, but it became clear well before they fired him, that he would not elevate the program at the FBS level. Yes JJ went to the NIT Final Four, got the team ranked for one week, and made an NCAAT, but it is obvious what his ceiling is at this point, and it is not as high as that program should aspire to. Yes Finwood has improved the baseball program, but it is clear where the ceiling is, and it is not as high as that program could go.

ODU needs an AD like Debbie Yow, recently retired from NC State. When she arrived, she demanded that all sports be in the top 25 per cent in the country. I heard that some coaches were scared of her. She fired a football coach, Tom O'brien, who had averaged 8 wins per year, but not good enough for her. (Her replacement has not done any better). Lo and behold, by the time she retired, all sports improved their national stature. I realize she was at an ACC school with plenty of resources. But it's all about expectations and holding coaches accountable.

Ya, no. She got MD so ass-over-teakettle that they had to join the B1G for a share of the consortium money to stay solvent.

Now NCState is in such a state Doreen could likely go 0-40 and they couldn't afford to fire him.

(12-07-2020 10:09 PM)NC ODUFan Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The difference is that our Athletic admin accepts average to above average performance for far to long. They are happy to spend a decade with coaches that are not going to push their programs to the next tier. We will never excell until our admin demands excellence, and values it more than they value stability. We have seen this in a number of programs. Off the top of my head, basketball, baseball, and football. None of those coaches are/were terrible, but it was/has been apparent for years that those coaches had/have a ceiling. In my opinion, when you recognize that a coach has a ceiling, and they have reached that ceiling, and that ceiling is not as high as it could be, then it is time to move on regardless of affinity, or singular successes that have been achieved over their tenure. Yes BW was good early and has some successes that you could point to as an excuse to keep him around, but it became clear well before they fired him, that he would not elevate the program at the FBS level. Yes JJ went to the NIT Final Four, got the team ranked for one week, and made an NCAAT, but it is obvious what his ceiling is at this point, and it is not as high as that program should aspire to. Yes Finwood has improved the baseball program, but it is clear where the ceiling is, and it is not as high as that program could go.

ODU needs an AD like Debbie Yow, recently retired from NC State. When she arrived, she demanded that all sports be in the top 25 per cent in the country. I heard that some coaches were scared of her. She fired a football coach, Tom O'brien, who had averaged 8 wins per year, but not good enough for her. (Her replacement has not done any better). Lo and behold, by the time she retired, all sports improved their national stature. I realize she was at an ACC school with plenty of resources. But it's all about expectations and holding coaches accountable.

NC STate!?!? What?

Hah, she's skrred of ECU.

(12-07-2020 12:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  I don’t know about that. Broderick seemed to champion athletics. He’s a fan and takes personal interest in the players.

(12-08-2020 10:58 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 12:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  I don’t know about that. Broderick seemed to champion athletics. He’s a fan and takes personal interest in the players.

I get your perspective as a wrestling fan and can understand why you feel that way. But do you think it carries over into all the athletic programs?

(12-08-2020 11:55 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:58 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(12-07-2020 12:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  I don’t know about that. Broderick seemed to champion athletics. He’s a fan and takes personal interest in the players.

I get your perspective as a wrestling fan and can understand why you feel that way. But do you think it carries over into all the athletic programs?

Correct. And I also get wildman's perspective, but I also add that I don't recall any president and/or AD (for any university and any point in athletics history) that didn't face negative PR when dealing with the cutting of athletics programs.

You know the sun belt is better than cusa now in football.

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  You know the sun belt is better than cusa now in football.

Its hard to say, but in this crazy year, by all appearances I'd say thats true. On average, I still think CUSA is probably better. The whole conference (and especially us) need to step up our football game to solidify that third spot in the G5 pecking order.

(12-09-2020 02:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  You know the sun belt is better than cusa now in football.

Its hard to say, but in this crazy year, by all appearances I'd say thats true. On average, I still think CUSA is probably better. The whole conference (and especially us) need to step up our football game to solidify that third spot in the G5 pecking order.

+1 Especially us...

(12-09-2020 05:32 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 02:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  You know the sun belt is better than cusa now in football.

Its hard to say, but in this crazy year, by all appearances I'd say thats true. On average, I still think CUSA is probably better. The whole conference (and especially us) need to step up our football game to solidify that third spot in the G5 pecking order.

+1 Especially us...

P6 or bust! oh wait.....what?