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Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
The thing about this season is that those nonconference losses are SUPER costly when it comes to seeding/ranking teams. The XII may have a bunch of teams with poor records come November.
09-13-2020 05:34 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-13-2020 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 10:46 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 10:11 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  To be more precise I don't think he's bad at all, but I remember Michigan fans when it was clear Brady Hoke wouldn't survive were naming him as a top candidate and I was completely befuddled by that. Miles basically runs his offenses like it's 1995 and he went 5 straight seasons with no BCS/NY6 bowl. No excuse for that at LSU who I think might have more draft picks than anyone the last 20 years.

You have to put it in context. At that time, Wolverine Nation was suffering from the Rich Rod and Brady Hoke eras. Les Miles is a Michigan grad, a former offensive lineman who played under the legend Bo Schembechler. Miles had also won a national chip at LSU. Rich Rod and Hoke? No comparison. IMO Miles would've done a better job than those two especially on the recruiting trail. Heck, I'm not sold on Jim Harbaugh who hasn't beaten Ohio State or even won a B1G East Division crown during his tenure.

Yes, IIRC, while at LSU Miles beat Ohio State as many times as RichRod, Hoke, and Harbaugh have put together.

I like Les, but he didn't beat the Coastal Carolina French Chickens did he?
09-13-2020 07:26 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #43
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-12-2020 03:47 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  And South Alabama has a brand spanking new stadium that should be a game changer for them.

And Texas State is the Sun Belt's sleeping giant.

And, allegedly, Georgia State is a sleeping giant, too. They're also the next team to join the AAC. Just ask their fans.

And Coastal Carolina... I say the jury is still out on them. Still new to FBS.

And ULM punches well above their weight.

You have the sleeping part right. We are a giant because we are in Texas and it should not be hard to find football talent in Texas, or at least you would think that we could.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020 07:56 PM by SoCalBobcat78.)
09-13-2020 07:56 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-13-2020 07:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 05:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 10:46 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 10:11 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  To be more precise I don't think he's bad at all, but I remember Michigan fans when it was clear Brady Hoke wouldn't survive were naming him as a top candidate and I was completely befuddled by that. Miles basically runs his offenses like it's 1995 and he went 5 straight seasons with no BCS/NY6 bowl. No excuse for that at LSU who I think might have more draft picks than anyone the last 20 years.

You have to put it in context. At that time, Wolverine Nation was suffering from the Rich Rod and Brady Hoke eras. Les Miles is a Michigan grad, a former offensive lineman who played under the legend Bo Schembechler. Miles had also won a national chip at LSU. Rich Rod and Hoke? No comparison. IMO Miles would've done a better job than those two especially on the recruiting trail. Heck, I'm not sold on Jim Harbaugh who hasn't beaten Ohio State or even won a B1G East Division crown during his tenure.

Yes, IIRC, while at LSU Miles beat Ohio State as many times as RichRod, Hoke, and Harbaugh have put together.

I like Les, but he didn't beat the Coastal Carolina French Chickens did he?

Imo his first two seasons he gets a pass on all losses based on the "talent" he inherited, there's probably a decent chance there's ton of youth on the roster with very little experienced upperclassmen starting. You can't win the Kentucky Derby with a mule.
09-13-2020 08:54 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Online
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Post: #45
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.
09-13-2020 09:26 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

Every XII school but Iowa St has been in the national title picture at some point in the last 15 years.
09-13-2020 11:43 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

But normally it’s because they play less OOC games and have a really good record against inferior competition. Usually it’s them being propped up for that and then getting exploited during bowl season.
09-14-2020 12:31 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-14-2020 12:31 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

But normally it’s because they play less OOC games and have a really good record against inferior competition. Usually it’s them being propped up for that and then getting exploited during bowl season.

XII has a winning bowl record 3 of the last 4 years. >.500 vs P5 teams.
09-14-2020 12:40 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:31 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

But normally it’s because they play less OOC games and have a really good record against inferior competition. Usually it’s them being propped up for that and then getting exploited during bowl season.

XII has a winning bowl record 3 of the last 4 years. >.500 vs P5 teams.

Yes, the Big 12's final post-bowl Massey conference standings in the CFP era have been:

2019: 2
2018: 2
2017: 4
2016: 5
2015: 3
2014: 3

So only one time have they been the worst P5 and four of six years they've been no worse than third. A very good conference.
09-14-2020 01:07 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
For at least the sport of football, can we agree that the "Sun Belch" is completely dated? Can we finally lay to rest the idea that the Belt is at the bottom and is, at absolute bare minimum, the equal to C-USA and the MAC and football?
09-14-2020 03:30 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-14-2020 01:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:31 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

But normally it’s because they play less OOC games and have a really good record against inferior competition. Usually it’s them being propped up for that and then getting exploited during bowl season.

XII has a winning bowl record 3 of the last 4 years. >.500 vs P5 teams.

Yes, the Big 12's final post-bowl Massey conference standings in the CFP era have been:

2019: 2
2018: 2
2017: 4
2016: 5
2015: 3
2014: 3

So only one time have they been the worst P5 and four of six years they've been no worse than third. A very good conference.

Maybe it's not a trend, but I'm going off last year where they went 24-6 in OOC play and were bragging about being the number 1 conference. But closer examination shows they only had one out of conference top-50 win (in the final Massey Composite).

OOC Wins Prior to Bowls:
47 Mississippi State
57 Louisiana Tech
62 Oregon State
68 Boston College
75 UCLA
78 Tulsa
83 Purdue
86 Houston
96 ULM
107 NC State
119 Rice (Texas)
119 Rice (Baylor)
121 UTSA
124 Bowling Green
128 UTEP
FCS Indiana State
FCS Northern Iowa
FCS James Madison
FCS Montana State
FCS Nicholls State
FCS Stephen F. Austin
FCS Arkansas Pine Bluff
FCS McNeese State
FCS South Dakota

OOC Losses Prior to Bowls
1 LSU
14 Iowa
30 SMU
54 Missouri
90 Arizona
108 Coastal Carolina

Then they went 1-5 in bowl games. Again, not a trend, but my main point was about their competition in the normal OOC play they can control.
09-14-2020 07:04 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-14-2020 07:04 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 01:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:40 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(09-14-2020 12:31 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 09:26 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Sun Belt was impressive but this is the same song and dance from Big 12 every year. Everyone says how strong the conference is and then this happens every year. Let's just be honest, there's one football school (Oklahoma) and one academic school (Texas) and really nothing else.

But normally it’s because they play less OOC games and have a really good record against inferior competition. Usually it’s them being propped up for that and then getting exploited during bowl season.

XII has a winning bowl record 3 of the last 4 years. >.500 vs P5 teams.

Yes, the Big 12's final post-bowl Massey conference standings in the CFP era have been:

2019: 2
2018: 2
2017: 4
2016: 5
2015: 3
2014: 3

So only one time have they been the worst P5 and four of six years they've been no worse than third. A very good conference.

Maybe it's not a trend, but I'm going off last year where they went 24-6 in OOC play and were bragging about being the number 1 conference. But closer examination shows they only had one out of conference top-50 win (in the final Massey Composite).

OOC Wins Prior to Bowls:
47 Mississippi State
57 Louisiana Tech
62 Oregon State
68 Boston College
75 UCLA
78 Tulsa
83 Purdue
86 Houston
96 ULM
107 NC State
119 Rice (Texas)
119 Rice (Baylor)
121 UTSA
124 Bowling Green
128 UTEP
FCS Indiana State
FCS Northern Iowa
FCS James Madison
FCS Montana State
FCS Nicholls State
FCS Stephen F. Austin
FCS Arkansas Pine Bluff
FCS McNeese State
FCS South Dakota

OOC Losses Prior to Bowls
1 LSU
14 Iowa
30 SMU
54 Missouri
90 Arizona
108 Coastal Carolina

Then they went 1-5 in bowl games. Again, not a trend, but my main point was about their competition in the normal OOC play they can control.

You make a good point here. The B12 was kind of like the AAC last year, it had a good year without claiming any big OOC scalps.

I would say though that while no doubt the B12 took a beating during bowl season last year, as someone else noted, they typically have had winning bowl seasons, not losing ones. And, the B12 did play a pretty brutal bowl schedule. Their six games were against five ranked teams, the #1, #5, #11, #15, and #23 teams. In all five, the B12 team was either unranked or else ranked below the opponent. In only one game was the B12 team of higher rank, and that was marginal, #25 OK State vs Texas AM.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2020 10:27 AM by quo vadis.)
09-15-2020 10:15 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.


09-15-2020 10:23 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3
09-15-2020 10:29 AM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3

Everyone is P6 this year...
09-15-2020 10:50 AM
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EigenEagle Online
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Post: #56
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 10:50 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3

Everyone is P6 this year...

Underrated post.
09-15-2020 12:31 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Online
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Post: #57
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3

This could be my bias talking but I'm in favor of making this permanent 04-cheers
09-15-2020 04:16 PM
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AppfanInCAAland Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 04:16 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

:coffee3:

This could be my bias talking but I'm in favor of making this permanent :cheers:

Personally, I loved watching football last weekend, with all the fun leagues playing - Belt, ACC, Big 12, CUSA - while the boring midwest and west coast leagues are not, and the oxygen-sucking monster yet to start.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2020 11:43 PM by AppfanInCAAland.)
09-15-2020 11:42 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Sun Belt Fame, Big 12 Shame
(09-15-2020 11:42 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:50 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3

Everyone is P6 this year...

(09-15-2020 04:16 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-15-2020 10:23 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  App State vs. Marshall on CBS 3:30 on Saturday.

The G5 conferences that are playing are really getting some great exposure from networks desperate to fill empty time slots.

The G5 that chose not to play are really missing out.

07-coffee3

This could be my bias talking but I'm in favor of making this permanent 04-cheers

Personally, I loved watching football last weekend, with all the fun leagues playing - Belt, ACC, Big 12, CUSA - while the boring midwest and west coast leagues are not, and the oxygen-sucking monster yet to start.

Being stifling just means more!

That said the unpredictability of this year has been good so far. I think the SEC playing just 10 conference games will be fun too. I expect upsets and maybe a surprise or two in the CFP. I did enjoy the Sunbelt games and actually enjoyed Georgia Tech's unlikely win at Tallahassee.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2020 11:48 PM by JRsec.)
09-15-2020 11:44 PM
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