(09-10-2020 09:26 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I (used to) watch sports to be entertained not to be lectured to and preached at.

I.Don’t.Give.A.Rat’s.Fat.Tail.About.Their.Social.Justice.Bs.

Nobody really argues with the general premise of equality for all. But what's frustrating to people who just want to be fair:

1. All these players are protesting social justice in a country where they are all multi-millionaires for playing a game.

2. The original impetus was George Floyd's death. Terrible, but cops kill more unarmed white men each year than blacks. Whites are a much larger % of the population, but blacks commit a much larger % of the crimes.

It just seems like a lopsided reason to campaign for an overarching cause that, in protests, often veers from the original message, which is not really an honest one to start with.

And then there's the whole BLM org issue, them being Marxists and wanting to bring down America.

3. Sports was the one area in life you were able to escape and forget all the usual BS. Now politics and social justice are in your face.

I'm quickly losing interest. Already gave up on the NBA. Getting close on the NFL, down to just my team only.

(09-10-2020 08:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you cant come out and stand for the flag that allows you to make big money playing a f*cking game, get your ass over to China.

How long have you held this stance?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

(09-10-2020 09:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 09:26 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I (used to) watch sports to be entertained not to be lectured to and preached at.

I.Don’t.Give.A.Rat’s.Fat.Tail.About.Their.Social.Justice.Bs.

What's frustrating to people who just want to be fair:

1. All these players are protesting social justice in a country where they are all multi-millionaires for playing a game.

2. The original impetus was George Floyd's death. Terrible, but cops kill more unarmed white men each year than blacks. Whites are a much larger % of the population, but blacks commit a much larger % of the crimes.

It just seems like a lopsided reason to campaign for an overarching cause that, in protests, often veers from the original message, which is not really an honest one to start with.

And then there's the whole BLM org issue, them being Marxists and wanting to bring down America.

3. Sports was the one area in life you were able to escape and forget all the usual BS. Now politics and social justice are in your face.

I'm quickly losing interest. Already gave up on the NBA. Getting close on the NFL, down to just my team only.

Its saddening to see. The thing is that regardless of how much protesting and what laws are enacted...There will ALWAYS be cops that make poor decisions and people will needlessly die at their hands. WHY? Cops are normal people that make mistakes just like the rest of us. The best we can do is try to eliminate the bad cops when they show themselves... the police UNIONS need to stop protecting them and their fellow cops need to out them. Beyond that? There is not much else to do. This stuff is still going to occasionally happen because cops are as flawed as us.

(09-10-2020 09:47 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you cant come out and stand for the flag that allows you to make big money playing a f*cking game, get your ass over to China.

How long have you held this stance?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Yes..Before 2009 the teams stayed in the locker room until after the anthem. I agree with him however since then. I think it is both disrespectful and shows a lack of mental acuity in regard to getting your message to be accepted and adopted nationally and that is pretty clear just by scrolling this thread.

(09-10-2020 09:59 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 09:47 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you cant come out and stand for the flag that allows you to make big money playing a f*cking game, get your ass over to China.

How long have you held this stance?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Yes..Before 2009 the teams stayed in the locker room until after the anthem. I agree with him however since then. I think it is both disrespectful and shows a lack of mental acuity in regard to getting your message to be accepted and adopted nationally and that is pretty clear just by scrolling this thread.

No one has ever said football player have mental ability.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, the same impetus that pushes me to support organizations to exercise their right to free speech (for example, the KKK being able to march) compels me to believe that those who fought and died under that flag also did so for people to be free to kneel for whatever reason they choose. The oath that is taken is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. That, to me at least, means the flag they stand before when making that oath symbolically protects people whom choose to exercise the freedoms enumerated in that constitution, no matter how idiotic it may seem to some. To me it's akin to a police officer having to protect a known criminal because even that criminal has certain rights. It's a fundamental ideal when you live in a society bound by the rule of law.

They kneel because it causes people to talk. If people just didn't care they'd eventually have nothing to kneel about.

(09-10-2020 10:55 PM)king king Wrote:  Unfortunately, the same impetus that pushes me to support organizations to exercise their right to free speech (for example, the KKK being able to march) compels me to believe that those who fought and died under that flag also did so for people to be free to kneel for whatever reason they choose. The oath that is taken is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. That, to me at least, means the flag they stand before when making that oath symbolically protects people whom choose to exercise the freedoms enumerated in that constitution, no matter how idiotic it may seem to some. To me it's akin to a police officer having to protect a known criminal because even that criminal has certain rights. It's a fundamental ideal when you live in a society bound by the rule of law.

They kneel because it causes people to talk. If people just didn't care they'd eventually have nothing to kneel about.

The difference is these men are at work. The employer gets to mandate the terms of your behavior while on the job and the courts have upheld this. Evidently the owners are scared schitless to impose rules of conduct for their employees or are complicit in all of this. Are they special because the are athletes? No. They are essentially still workers. I blame the owners for ALL of this really. Jerry Jones was the only one at one time that made it clear he would not tolerate it. He gave them other options express themselves outside of the kneeling. It seemed to work fine for that team.

I succeeded in not watching one second of the NFL game tonight. I always feel good when I accomplish a goal I set for myself. One game down and more to come. Hoping I can do the same for the rest of the season.

(09-10-2020 10:55 PM)king king Wrote:  Unfortunately, the same impetus that pushes me to support organizations to exercise their right to free speech (for example, the KKK being able to march) compels me to believe that those who fought and died under that flag also did so for people to be free to kneel for whatever reason they choose. The oath that is taken is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. That, to me at least, means the flag they stand before when making that oath symbolically protects people whom choose to exercise the freedoms enumerated in that constitution, no matter how idiotic it may seem to some. To me it's akin to a police officer having to protect a known criminal because even that criminal has certain rights. It's a fundamental ideal when you live in a society bound by the rule of law.

They kneel because it causes people to talk. If people just didn't care they'd eventually have nothing to kneel about.

Well if you give half the country a middle finger it gets people to talk. But they aren't saying what you want. Kneeling for the flag is like giving a middle finger to the whole country. Some people are fine with that. But not most.

(09-10-2020 10:55 PM)king king Wrote:  Unfortunately, the same impetus that pushes me to support organizations to exercise their right to free speech (for example, the KKK being able to march) compels me to believe that those who fought and died under that flag also did so for people to be free to kneel for whatever reason they choose. The oath that is taken is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. That, to me at least, means the flag they stand before when making that oath symbolically protects people whom choose to exercise the freedoms enumerated in that constitution, no matter how idiotic it may seem to some. To me it's akin to a police officer having to protect a known criminal because even that criminal has certain rights. It's a fundamental ideal when you live in a society bound by the rule of law.
They kneel because it causes people to talk. If people just didn't care they'd eventually have nothing to kneel about.

They have every right to kneel. But they are wrong. Their fundamental arguments are wrong. The USA is not a fundamentally racist or oppressive country, nor is there widespread racism among law enforcement. The facts just don't support those assertions.

Men have fought and died for them to have the right to kneel. I have no problem with them kneeling. I don't support it, it's wrong. I can't look at the flag on my wall that came from my dead Father's casket and support anyone that kneels to that flag, but I do agree they have that right.

Of course, it's completely irrelevant to me since I'll never actually see them kneeling.

(09-10-2020 09:37 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:36 PM)Chappy Wrote:  I gotta say, I still don’t get the anger at kneeling. Kneeling is not sitting. People stand or kneel before the cross when they pray. Nobody complains about that being disrespectful.

A lot of people might not know this..but..Standing for the anthem is actually codified in legal code. its not a law..but a suggestion on how Americans should honor their country. I just think there are better ways to protest and get your message embraced by the masses than "taking a knee" during the anthem. Tonight was a close example of how it that can be done with the players joining arms in a moment of silence for a this cause. I doubt many folks would ever have a problem with that and can embrace that cause. Why in the hell would you do something that you know will be divisive? It makes no sense.

Indeed. I did not know that.

(09-11-2020 05:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 10:55 PM)king king Wrote:  Unfortunately, the same impetus that pushes me to support organizations to exercise their right to free speech (for example, the KKK being able to march) compels me to believe that those who fought and died under that flag also did so for people to be free to kneel for whatever reason they choose. The oath that is taken is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. That, to me at least, means the flag they stand before when making that oath symbolically protects people whom choose to exercise the freedoms enumerated in that constitution, no matter how idiotic it may seem to some. To me it's akin to a police officer having to protect a known criminal because even that criminal has certain rights. It's a fundamental ideal when you live in a society bound by the rule of law.
They kneel because it causes people to talk. If people just didn't care they'd eventually have nothing to kneel about.

They have every right to kneel. But they are wrong. Their fundamental arguments are wrong. The USA is not a fundamentally racist or oppressive country, nor is there widespread racism among law enforcement. The facts just don't support those assertions.

This.

(09-10-2020 08:36 PM)Chappy Wrote:  I gotta say, I still don’t get the anger at kneeling. Kneeling is not sitting. People stand or kneel before the cross when they pray. Nobody complains about that being disrespectful.

Tradition is to stand in respect for your nation.

Intentionally kneeling is a gesture intended to show that you do not respect your nation. People connect the motivation for the lack of respect to several things including hatred toward this county, hatred and disrespect of people who served/are serving this nation in the military and the various first responders positions, a hatred of law and justice, and, frankly, an acceptance of marxism and its attempt to overthrow everything we hold dear.

Kneeling when worshiping God is understood to be reverent and humble before our Creator and Savior.

(09-10-2020 09:37 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:36 PM)Chappy Wrote:  I gotta say, I still don’t get the anger at kneeling. Kneeling is not sitting. People stand or kneel before the cross when they pray. Nobody complains about that being disrespectful.

A lot of people might not know this..but..Standing for the anthem is actually codified in legal code. its not a law..but a suggestion on how Americans should honor their country. I just think there are better ways to protest and get your message embraced by the masses than "taking a knee" during the anthem. Tonight was a close example of how it that can be done with the players joining arms in a moment of silence for a this cause. I doubt many folks would ever have a problem with that and can embrace that cause. Why in the hell would you do something that you know will be divisive? It makes no sense.

I agree with this. But what I didn't like was all the booing during the moment of silence. That was a peaceful protest with no disrespect so why boo?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(09-10-2020 09:47 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you cant come out and stand for the flag that allows you to make big money playing a f*cking game, get your ass over to China.

How long have you held this stance?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Ever since pro-athletes decided to become the propaganda machine for foreign countries like China.

(09-11-2020 08:19 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 09:47 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-10-2020 08:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you cant come out and stand for the flag that allows you to make big money playing a f*cking game, get your ass over to China.

How long have you held this stance?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Ever since pro-athletes decided to become the propaganda machine for foreign countries like China.

ok, so before our taxpayer money went to the NFL for this advertisement, that was fine?

I read this morning that some players and of course the woke crowd are infuriated that the crowd in Kansas City booed the players last night. Well, if the players have right to protest, those in the crowd that bought their tickets, have the right to boo.

(09-11-2020 08:26 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  I read this morning that some players and of course the woke crowd are infuriated that the crowd in Kansas City booed the players last night. Well, if the players have right to protest, those in the crowd that bought their tickets, have the right to boo.

Unsure if infuriated would be the word I'd use.

(09-11-2020 08:26 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  I read this morning that some players and of course the woke crowd are infuriated that the crowd in Kansas City booed the players last night. Well, if the players have right to protest, those in the crowd that bought their tickets, have the right to boo.

That only proves that there are idiots on both sides.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk