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Generals: Grab them by the ...
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cb4029 Offline
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Post: #1
Generals: Grab them by the ...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-...15708.html

Quote:Donald Trump allegedly called the generals serving under his administration a “bunch of p****ies”, according to a new book.

An aide to former Secretary of Defense James Mattis, who left the White House in 2018 over differing opinions with the president, reportedly heard Mr Trump say, “my f***ing generals are a bunch of p***ies” when speaking to economic adviser Peter Navarro, CNN reported.

“They care more about their alliances than they do about trade deals,” Mr Trump added.

Sounds like a man who has a lot of respect for the Military. 07-coffee3
09-09-2020 11:21 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
I am a retired naval officer and I have tremendous respect for out military. I have little respect for out current senior officer corps. I would probably use a worse term than Trump did to describe our current lot of flag and general officers.

From the navy perspective, at least the last three CNOs (Greenert, Richardson, and Gilday) have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision. Consider the procurement decisions:
- Four $14B Ford aircraft carriers that can't arm, launch, or recover aircraft because their catapults, arresting gear, and weapons lifts don't work; now the toilets don't work either (although the idiot Rumsfeld deserves a lot of the blame for this one)
- Thirty-two $800MM Littoral Combat Ships that are of no use in the littorals or in combat, and the only reason to send them on deployments is to give our fleet tugs practice towing them home when their engines fail
- 693 $125 MM F-35s, that should have been three different--and cheaper--aircraft--a fighter/interceptor with long-range sensors, stand-off weapons, and great visibility and maneuverability in case it got into a dogfight; an attack/bomber with stealth, long range, and a big bomb load; and a rugged STOVL "Marine A-10" with a big gun and weapons load
- Five new $3.8B LHA/LHD amphibious ships, that can carry a lot of Marines and equipment from Point A to Point B, or actually 25-50 miles offshore from Point B becuase they are too expensive and carry too much stuff to be risked in closer, and from 25-50 miles offshore they have no way to get tanks and heavy artillery ashore--boats are too slow, helos and V-22s can't lift the weight, and LCACs are too unreliable--so the Marines are having to reconfigure themselves as ultra light infantry, and there just aren't many missions for a bunch of Boy Scouts with BB guns.

That's almost $200B of procurement mistakes alone.

The last two Commandants of the Marine Corps (Neller and Berger) have caught a lot of flack for coming up with fanciful missions that make no sense and cannot be executed, but given what they are forced to work with by the Navy, I'm not sure they have any viable alternatives.

It runs deeper than procurement. Political correctness has replaced military and professional competence as the standard for promotion and selection for command. As a result, look at the Navy's performance in the last 10-15 years. We have:
- The Fitzgerald and McCain collisions
- The grounding of the Port Royal in full sight of Honolulu airport
- The debacle with two gunboats and the Iranians at Farsi Island
- Our carriers, attack submarines, and other ships are sitting in port for years because they can't get major maintenance done

The idiots are truly running the asylum. We don't know how to fight, but our sensitivity training is top notch. Trump needs to fire the lot and start over.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 11:03 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-09-2020 11:25 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-09-2020 11:21 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-...15708.html

Quote:Donald Trump allegedly called the generals serving under his administration a “bunch of p****ies”, according to a new book.

An aide to former Secretary of Defense James Mattis, who left the White House in 2018 over differing opinions with the president, reportedly heard Mr Trump say, “my f***ing generals are a bunch of p***ies” when speaking to economic adviser Peter Navarro, CNN reported.

“They care more about their alliances than they do about trade deals,” Mr Trump added.

Sounds like a man who has a lot of respect for the Military. 07-coffee3

Not being able to differentiate between flag staff and everyone else is your problem.
09-10-2020 05:22 AM
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DownEastPirate Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Soooo, basically another anonymous source for the headline grabbing comment? Coats comments are a nothing burger, just more of the Russia/Putin spiel that's been going on and investigated for 4 years. As far as the Mattis comments it's more of the same for him. If you would do a little research you can understand why Mattis was against bringing troops in Syria home. From 13'-17' he served on the Board of Directors for General Dynamics who is a defense contractor that was awarded a contract with Turkey for $690 million in the war against Syria. I suspect that Mattis didn't support Trump pulling troops back because he was afraid it may upset the apple cart in his former employers contract with the US and it's allies in the operation. They had contracts with Saudi Arabia who was an ally in Syria and also with the US. US troops in active conflicts is good for business.

In my opinion it should be illegal for a military official, active or retired, to be involved with any defense contractor.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 06:12 AM by DownEastPirate.)
09-10-2020 06:09 AM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Uhmmmmm... The problem is, he's right about a lot of them. How is this even a headline?
09-10-2020 06:18 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 06:09 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Soooo, basically another anonymous source for the headline grabbing comment? Coats comments are a nothing burger, just more of the Russia/Putin spiel that's been going on and investigated for 4 years. As far as the Mattis comments it's more of the same for him. If you would do a little research you can understand why Mattis was against bringing troops in Syria home. From 13'-17' he served on the Board of Directors for General Dynamics who is a defense contractor that was awarded a contract with Turkey for $690 million in the war against Syria. I suspect that Mattis didn't support Trump pulling troops back because he was afraid it may upset the apple cart in his former employers contract with the US and it's allies in the operation. They had contracts with Saudi Arabia who was an ally in Syria and also with the US. US troops in active conflicts is good for business.

In my opinion it should be illegal for a military official, active or retired, to be involved with any defense contractor.

I wish I had a better solution than your proposal. But these flag officers only qualification for these jobs are what they can foist on the military while still active.
09-10-2020 06:29 AM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Didn't this already get posted. CB is a day late on the talking points again. You and Mensa need to start sharing better notes.
09-10-2020 06:56 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-09-2020 11:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a retired naval officer and I have tremendous respect for out military. I have little respect for out current senior officer corps. I would probably use a worse term than Trump did to describe our current lot of flag and general officers.

From the navy perspective, at least the last three CNOs (Greenert, Richardson, and Gilday) have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision. Consider the procurement decisions:
- Four $14B Ford aircraft carriers that can't arm, launch, or recover aircraft because their catapults, arresting gear, and weapons lifts don't work; now the toilets don't work either (although the idiot Rumsfeld deserves a lot of the blame for this one)
- Thirty-two $800MM Littoral Combat Ships that are of no use in the littorals or in combat, and the only reason to send them on deployments is to give our fleet tugs practice towing them home when their engines fail
- 693 $125 MM F-35s, that should have been three different aircraft--a fighter/interceptor with long-range sensors, stand-off weapons, and great visibility and maneuverability in case it got into a dogfight; an attack/bomber with stealth, long range, and a big bomb load; and a rugged STOVL "Marine A-10" with a big gun and weapons load
- Five $3.8B LHAs/LHDs amphibious ships, that can carry a lot of Marines and equipment from Point A to Point B, or actually 25-50 miles offshore from Point B becuase they are too expensive and carry too much stuff to be risked in closer, and from 25-50 miles offshore they have no way to get tanks and heavy artillery ashore--boats are too slow, helos and V-22s can't lift the weight, and LCACs are too unreliable--so the Marines are having to reconfigure themselves as ultra light infantry, and there just aren't many missions for a bunch of Boy Scouts with BB guns.

That's almost $200B of procurement mistakes alone.

The last two Commandants of the Marine Corps (Neller and Berger) have caught a lot of flack for coming up with fanciful missions that make no sense and cannot be executed, but given what they are forced to work with by the Navy, I'm not sure they have any viable alternatives.

It runs deeper than procurement. Political correctness has replaced military and professional competence as the standard for promotion and selection for command. As a result, look at the Navy's performance in the last 10-15 years. We have:
- The Fitzgerald and McCain collisions
- The grounding of the Port Royal in full sight of Honolulu airport
- The debacle with two gunboats and the Iranians at Farsi Island
- Our carriers, attack submarines, and other ships are sitting in port for years because they can't get major maintenance done

The idiots are truly running the asylum. We don't know how to fight, but our sensitivity training is top notch. Trump needs to fire the lot and start over.

As a retired Air Force aviation officer I agree. Most of our G.O.'s are self serving chameleons. It is very political and many made rank to O-6 and above under Obama by doing stupid PC things to the troops. Hopefully under Trump we can promote more Warriors and less political and diversity imposters.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 07:05 AM by TexanMark.)
09-10-2020 07:03 AM
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DownEastPirate Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 06:29 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 06:09 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Soooo, basically another anonymous source for the headline grabbing comment? Coats comments are a nothing burger, just more of the Russia/Putin spiel that's been going on and investigated for 4 years. As far as the Mattis comments it's more of the same for him. If you would do a little research you can understand why Mattis was against bringing troops in Syria home. From 13'-17' he served on the Board of Directors for General Dynamics who is a defense contractor that was awarded a contract with Turkey for $690 million in the war against Syria. I suspect that Mattis didn't support Trump pulling troops back because he was afraid it may upset the apple cart in his former employers contract with the US and it's allies in the operation. They had contracts with Saudi Arabia who was an ally in Syria and also with the US. US troops in active conflicts is good for business.

In my opinion it should be illegal for a military official, active or retired, to be involved with any defense contractor.

I wish I had a better solution than your proposal. But these flag officers only qualification for these jobs are what they can foist on the military while still active.

It's a difficult situation for sure. On one hand I certainly want the US to have any and all advantages over others and having military officials working with these contractors does that. At the same time I can't see how it's any different than insider trading? The more you research the defense contractor market the more you see how much of the world economy it really represents and it's RIPE for illegal activities, shady deals and conflict of interest.
09-10-2020 07:05 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 06:09 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  Soooo, basically another anonymous source for the headline grabbing comment? Coats comments are a nothing burger, just more of the Russia/Putin spiel that's been going on and investigated for 4 years. As far as the Mattis comments it's more of the same for him. If you would do a little research you can understand why Mattis was against bringing troops in Syria home. From 13'-17' he served on the Board of Directors for General Dynamics who is a defense contractor that was awarded a contract with Turkey for $690 million in the war against Syria. I suspect that Mattis didn't support Trump pulling troops back because he was afraid it may upset the apple cart in his former employers contract with the US and it's allies in the operation. They had contracts with Saudi Arabia who was an ally in Syria and also with the US. US troops in active conflicts is good for business.
In my opinion it should be illegal for a military official, active or retired, to be involved with any defense contractor.

I don't think you can go that far legally or constitutionally. But one thing I would do is that if you retire and go to work for a defense contractor, your retirement pay and benefits are suspended while you are employed by that contractor. You can't be getting paychecks from both sides.
09-10-2020 09:02 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Trump is very clearly aligning himself with the 'workers' in the military and not the 'planners'... and they are very different people.

My father was very happy as a Navt Captain... he envisioned me following him to annapolis.... he was instrumental in getting Roger Staubach into the academy. They moved him to the pentagon and the JCS and he retired. Couldn't stand the beauracracy
09-10-2020 09:13 AM
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-09-2020 11:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a retired naval officer and I have tremendous respect for out military. I have little respect for out current senior officer corps. I would probably use a worse term than Trump did to describe our current lot of flag and general officers.

From the navy perspective, at least the last three CNOs (Greenert, Richardson, and Gilday) have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision. Consider the procurement decisions:
- Four $14B Ford aircraft carriers that can't arm, launch, or recover aircraft because their catapults, arresting gear, and weapons lifts don't work; now the toilets don't work either (although the idiot Rumsfeld deserves a lot of the blame for this one)
- Thirty-two $800MM Littoral Combat Ships that are of no use in the littorals or in combat, and the only reason to send them on deployments is to give our fleet tugs practice towing them home when their engines fail
- 693 $125 MM F-35s, that should have been three different aircraft--a fighter/interceptor with long-range sensors, stand-off weapons, and great visibility and maneuverability in case it got into a dogfight; an attack/bomber with stealth, long range, and a big bomb load; and a rugged STOVL "Marine A-10" with a big gun and weapons load
- Five $3.8B LHAs/LHDs amphibious ships, that can carry a lot of Marines and equipment from Point A to Point B, or actually 25-50 miles offshore from Point B becuase they are too expensive and carry too much stuff to be risked in closer, and from 25-50 miles offshore they have no way to get tanks and heavy artillery ashore--boats are too slow, helos and V-22s can't lift the weight, and LCACs are too unreliable--so the Marines are having to reconfigure themselves as ultra light infantry, and there just aren't many missions for a bunch of Boy Scouts with BB guns.

That's almost $200B of procurement mistakes alone.

The last two Commandants of the Marine Corps (Neller and Berger) have caught a lot of flack for coming up with fanciful missions that make no sense and cannot be executed, but given what they are forced to work with by the Navy, I'm not sure they have any viable alternatives.

It runs deeper than procurement. Political correctness has replaced military and professional competence as the standard for promotion and selection for command. As a result, look at the Navy's performance in the last 10-15 years. We have:
- The Fitzgerald and McCain collisions
- The grounding of the Port Royal in full sight of Honolulu airport
- The debacle with two gunboats and the Iranians at Farsi Island
- Our carriers, attack submarines, and other ships are sitting in port for years because they can't get major maintenance done

The idiots are truly running the asylum. We don't know how to fight, but our sensitivity training is top notch. Trump needs to fire the lot and start over.

dare I bring up, "The Peter Principle"............again
09-10-2020 09:20 AM
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natibeast21 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Drain that muthfin SWAMP!
09-10-2020 09:34 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 09:13 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Trump is very clearly aligning himself with the 'workers' in the military and not the 'planners'... and they are very different people.
My father was very happy as a Navy Captain... he envisioned me following him to annapolis.... he was instrumental in getting Roger Staubach into the academy. They moved him to the pentagon and the JCS and he retired. Couldn't stand the beauracracy

The biggest problem with out military is that it is way too top-heavy with bureaucrats and "planners." I've read that we have more people working in the Pentagon today than it took to win World War II. I can't confirm that, but I think it is entirely possible.

McKinsey did what they called a "tooth to tail" study of all the OECD (developed countries) military budgets, at https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinse...g_v9.ashx. They found that the average OECD country's military budget went 26% to combat, 11% to combat support, and 63% to administrative/other. The US numbers were worse--16% combat, 7% combat support, and 77% to combat readiness. That is simply absurd, particularly combined with how poorly those "planners" actually plan.

Applied to a defense budget in the $700B range, that means we could spend 25% MORE on combat and combat support, and cut admin/other by 25%, and achieve a net $100B reduction in defense spending, and would basically bring us in line with the rest of OECD.

But here's the kicker. In our current system, we will never go that way. Why not? Because if we decided to cut defense $100B (or any other number), who gets to decide where the cuts come? Why, those "planners," of course.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 02:49 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-10-2020 09:35 AM
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
So the truth hurt your widdle feewings CB? Is that it?
09-10-2020 10:04 AM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 06:18 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Uhmmmmm... The problem is, he's right about a lot of them. How is this even a headline?

Cause cb is desperate for ANYTHING to stick.

Hell, my Dad did navy and army stints many many many moons ago.. and you know what he'd say about Generals and staff officers back then?

The exact damn same thing that you're whining about now ..

Besides, when did the left ever care about anyone in a military uniform? They don't.... unless its some one who thinks they can SJW the military.
09-10-2020 10:18 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
Y’all keep it up and we won’t have any leftists to point and laugh at here.... 03-lmfao
09-10-2020 10:31 AM
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
You already tried this. Didn't work.
09-10-2020 10:42 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 07:03 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a retired naval officer and I have tremendous respect for out military. I have little respect for out current senior officer corps. I would probably use a worse term than Trump did to describe our current lot of flag and general officers.
From the navy perspective, at least the last three CNOs (Greenert, Richardson, and Gilday) have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision. Consider the procurement decisions:
- Four $14B Ford aircraft carriers that can't arm, launch, or recover aircraft because their catapults, arresting gear, and weapons lifts don't work; now the toilets don't work either (although the idiot Rumsfeld deserves a lot of the blame for this one)
- Thirty-two $800MM Littoral Combat Ships that are of no use in the littorals or in combat, and the only reason to send them on deployments is to give our fleet tugs practice towing them home when their engines fail
- 693 $125 MM F-35s, that should have been three different aircraft--a fighter/interceptor with long-range sensors, stand-off weapons, and great visibility and maneuverability in case it got into a dogfight; an attack/bomber with stealth, long range, and a big bomb load; and a rugged STOVL "Marine A-10" with a big gun and weapons load
- Five $3.8B LHAs/LHDs amphibious ships, that can carry a lot of Marines and equipment from Point A to Point B, or actually 25-50 miles offshore from Point B becuase they are too expensive and carry too much stuff to be risked in closer, and from 25-50 miles offshore they have no way to get tanks and heavy artillery ashore--boats are too slow, helos and V-22s can't lift the weight, and LCACs are too unreliable--so the Marines are having to reconfigure themselves as ultra light infantry, and there just aren't many missions for a bunch of Boy Scouts with BB guns.
That's almost $200B of procurement mistakes alone.
The last two Commandants of the Marine Corps (Neller and Berger) have caught a lot of flack for coming up with fanciful missions that make no sense and cannot be executed, but given what they are forced to work with by the Navy, I'm not sure they have any viable alternatives.
It runs deeper than procurement. Political correctness has replaced military and professional competence as the standard for promotion and selection for command. As a result, look at the Navy's performance in the last 10-15 years. We have:
- The Fitzgerald and McCain collisions
- The grounding of the Port Royal in full sight of Honolulu airport
- The debacle with two gunboats and the Iranians at Farsi Island
- Our carriers, attack submarines, and other ships are sitting in port for years because they can't get major maintenance done
The idiots are truly running the asylum. We don't know how to fight, but our sensitivity training is top notch. Trump needs to fire the lot and start over.
As a retired Air Force aviation officer I agree. Most of our G.O.'s are self serving chameleons. It is very political and many made rank to O-6 and above under Obama by doing stupid PC things to the troops. Hopefully under Trump we can promote more Warriors and less political and diversity imposters.

I'm worried that the PC SJWs are now too well entrenched in the top echelons. It's going to take a while to purge them. And that was not at the top of Trump's list. If he get re-elected, I hope it becomes a priority. If Biden wins, and pzrticlulary if Harris replaces him, I'm afraid we may all need to learn Chinese.

We are in Cold War II, and this time the enemy is China. For all of the "Trump-Russia" noise, I think there is a very real possibility that we could turn Russia into an ally against China (the Tom Clancy "The Bear and the Dragon" scenario). I'm way more worried about Biden's connections to China than about Trump's alleged connections to Russia. The 1980s called and want their foreign policy back.

What's worse is that we are still trying (unsuccessfully) to impose our will militarily on the Mideast, while China is pursuing an economic strategy that is buying up everybody around us. Ross Perot said something in 1992 that I had believed for some time, "In the post-Cold-War era, economic power will be more important than military power." China understands that. We don't.

Having blasted a bunch of procurement and other military decisions in my post above, I probably should tell you what I'd do instead:
- Build more Nimitz carriers ($9B, and everything works) instead of Fords; increase carrier numbers by converting LHAs/LHDs to "Lightning Carrier" STOVL carriers or CVLs (like 1960s British Ark Royal or conventional French CDG), and building some modernized Kitty Hawk conventional carriers; ideally you'd want 12 2-carrier battle groups (CVBGs) which could combine to form 6 4-carrier fast carrier task forces (CTFs)
- Spend the difference on buying enough airplanes and training enough pilots to put full air wings on them; a carrier's fighting capacity is its airplanes, not itself
- Give the LCSs to the Coast Guard, and if they don't want them (and they probably won't, although their egos might drive them to want to take them and show the Navy how to make them work) offer them for sale to allies; just get rid of them
- Take the 3 Zumwalt destroyers (another $10B boondoggle) and deploy two of them to WestPac and the Med as flagships for the 7th and 6th Fleets, and put the third in San Diego as a test bed for new systems (lasers, rail guns, etc.)
- Instead of the overpriced Zumwalt and LCSs, build 20 escort squadrons, each including 1 cruiser (enlarged Ticonderoga, with 8" guns, more VLS cells, and extensive UAV/USV/UUV facilities), 2 AAW destroyers (could be Burkes), 3 GP frigates (could be FFG(X)), and 4 ASW frigates (single purpose ASW ships)
- Replace the LHAs/LHDs and San Antonio class LPDs with 10 squadron-sized amphibious ready groups (ARGs) including a smaller LHA/LHD like the Spanish Juan Carlos, an LPH like the French Mistral, an LPD/LSD like the British Albion, a real LST with a bow that permits beaching, an LPA/LKA conversion of a merchant ship, and a naval gunfire support (NGFS) frigate; convert the San Antonios to ABM/BMD ships per the HII proposal
- I'd also build some real littoral combat ships, including corvettes, missile patrol boats, mine countermeasures ships, and air-independent propulsion submarines for use in areas like the first island chain, the eastern Med, or the Baltic

With this configuration, we could build a 600-ship navy for less than the cost of the Navy's currently proposed 355-ship fleet. More combat power, less cost.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 02:49 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-10-2020 11:31 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Generals: Grab them by the ...
(09-10-2020 09:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But here's the kicker. In our current system, we will never go that way. Why not? Because if we decided to cut defense $100B (or an other number), who gets to decide where the cuts come? Why, those "planners," of course.

This, and its not just military... though clearly the military is large numbers.
09-10-2020 01:52 PM
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