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Poison Ivy League
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-09-2020 11:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  The bottom 8 are definitely all HBCU's, and its not even close. Doesn't matter if its academic or athletic related.

I still think Chicago St makes the list.
09-10-2020 08:14 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-09-2020 07:24 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 06:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  We all know that the Ivy League is a consortium of expensive, highly selective, academically prestigious, elite universities. But what if there was a parallel organization for DI’s lowest rated, least reputable schools?

—the Poison Ivy League

What 8 schools would be in it?

Arizona St.
SMU
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Memphis
Wichita St.
FSU
Wisconsin

I don't follow. Half of those schools I would contest are quality schools by nearly all metrics.

Least reputable-These are all near the top of the list in NCAA major violations. So they do quality and quantity on cheating.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 09:13 AM by bullet.)
09-10-2020 09:12 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 09:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How did we get 10 comments without any mention of Baylor?
07-coffee3

Baylor is a better school that people realize. #79 nationally, $1.3 billion endowment. Behind Rice (#17), but right between SMU (#64) and TCU (#97).

The Division I schools of Texas are perceived (academically, that is) roughly in this order:
1. Rice
2. Texas
2. Texas A&M
4. SMU
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. North Texas
9. Houston
10. Texas State
11. UT-San Antonio
12. Incarnate Word
13. UT-Arlington
14. UT-El Paso
15. Stephen F Austin St.
16. Sam Houston St.
17. Houston Baptist
18. Lamar
19. Prairie View A&M
20. Texas Southern
21. Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
22. UT-Rio Grande Valley

That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.
09-10-2020 09:26 AM
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Pony94 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 09:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How did we get 10 comments without any mention of Baylor?
07-coffee3

Baylor is a better school that people realize. #79 nationally, $1.3 billion endowment. Behind Rice (#17), but right between SMU (#64) and TCU (#97).

The Division I schools of Texas are perceived (academically, that is) roughly in this order:
1. Rice
2. Texas
2. Texas A&M
4. SMU
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. North Texas
9. Houston
10. Texas State
11. UT-San Antonio
12. Incarnate Word
13. UT-Arlington
14. UT-El Paso
15. Stephen F Austin St.
16. Sam Houston St.
17. Houston Baptist
18. Lamar
19. Prairie View A&M
20. Texas Southern
21. Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
22. UT-Rio Grande Valley

That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.

You don't spend much time in the outside world do you? He has the private schools ranked correctly.
09-10-2020 09:33 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 09:33 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 09:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How did we get 10 comments without any mention of Baylor?
07-coffee3

Baylor is a better school that people realize. #79 nationally, $1.3 billion endowment. Behind Rice (#17), but right between SMU (#64) and TCU (#97).

The Division I schools of Texas are perceived (academically, that is) roughly in this order:
1. Rice
2. Texas
2. Texas A&M
4. SMU
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. North Texas
9. Houston
10. Texas State
11. UT-San Antonio
12. Incarnate Word
13. UT-Arlington
14. UT-El Paso
15. Stephen F Austin St.
16. Sam Houston St.
17. Houston Baptist
18. Lamar
19. Prairie View A&M
20. Texas Southern
21. Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
22. UT-Rio Grande Valley

That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.

You don't spend much time in the outside world do you? He has the private schools ranked correctly.

It surprises me that SMU people are almost always as stereotyped. Arrogant, preppy and not serious. SMU is viewed as Vanderbilt lite. Vanderbilt without being elite academically. Good, but not elite. TCU is generally viewed as a more serious school.

Baylor has historically been a good, solid school targeted at the middle class (compared to TCU and SMU). However, it has been improving in spite of its athletic scandals.
09-10-2020 09:43 AM
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Pony94 Online
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Post: #26
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:33 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 09:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Baylor is a better school that people realize. #79 nationally, $1.3 billion endowment. Behind Rice (#17), but right between SMU (#64) and TCU (#97).

The Division I schools of Texas are perceived (academically, that is) roughly in this order:
1. Rice
2. Texas
2. Texas A&M
4. SMU
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. North Texas
9. Houston
10. Texas State
11. UT-San Antonio
12. Incarnate Word
13. UT-Arlington
14. UT-El Paso
15. Stephen F Austin St.
16. Sam Houston St.
17. Houston Baptist
18. Lamar
19. Prairie View A&M
20. Texas Southern
21. Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
22. UT-Rio Grande Valley

That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.

You don't spend much time in the outside world do you? He has the private schools ranked correctly.

It surprises me that SMU people are almost always as stereotyped. Arrogant, preppy and not serious. SMU is viewed as Vanderbilt lite. Vanderbilt without being elite academically. Good, but not elite. TCU is generally viewed as a more serious school.

Baylor has historically been a good, solid school targeted at the middle class (compared to TCU and SMU). However, it has been improving in spite of its athletic scandals.


You swayed my view. I will call US News and have TCU's rank of 97 swapped with SMU's 64.
09-10-2020 09:44 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Poison Ivy League
Louisville?
09-10-2020 10:41 AM
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3BNole Online
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Post: #28
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 09:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:24 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 06:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  We all know that the Ivy League is a consortium of expensive, highly selective, academically prestigious, elite universities. But what if there was a parallel organization for DI’s lowest rated, least reputable schools?

—the Poison Ivy League

What 8 schools would be in it?

Arizona St.
SMU
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Memphis
Wichita St.
FSU
Wisconsin

I don't follow. Half of those schools I would contest are quality schools by nearly all metrics.

Least reputable-These are all near the top of the list in NCAA major violations. So they do quality and quantity on cheating.

If that’s what the list is supposed to be then it was a pretty big fail. Wisconsin? Oklahoma? NCAA violations? What? And FSU had one incident with a professor over a decade ago which was self reported... so what are you even talking about?

If the list was the top violators and cheating, then where’s Auburn? Louisville? North Carolina? Kansas? Miami? I think it’s really just a list of schools you don’t like and tried to thinly cover up.
09-10-2020 11:37 AM
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:33 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 09:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Baylor is a better school that people realize. #79 nationally, $1.3 billion endowment. Behind Rice (#17), but right between SMU (#64) and TCU (#97).

The Division I schools of Texas are perceived (academically, that is) roughly in this order:
1. Rice
2. Texas
2. Texas A&M
4. SMU
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. North Texas
9. Houston
10. Texas State
11. UT-San Antonio
12. Incarnate Word
13. UT-Arlington
14. UT-El Paso
15. Stephen F Austin St.
16. Sam Houston St.
17. Houston Baptist
18. Lamar
19. Prairie View A&M
20. Texas Southern
21. Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
22. UT-Rio Grande Valley

That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.

You don't spend much time in the outside world do you? He has the private schools ranked correctly.

It surprises me that SMU people are almost always as stereotyped. Arrogant, preppy and not serious. SMU is viewed as Vanderbilt lite. Vanderbilt without being elite academically. Good, but not elite. TCU is generally viewed as a more serious school.

Baylor has historically been a good, solid school targeted at the middle class (compared to TCU and SMU). However, it has been improving in spite of its athletic scandals.

Since we have several private school reps, I’ll go ahead and weigh in as well. I am Baylor Alum, with immediate family alums from SMU, Texas, TAMU, Houston, Tech, and Rice.

In terms of academic and professional performance, I think Baylor alums punch way above their weight. Their presence in political offices, corporate leadership, and community leadership is well in excess of their proportionate share of the college educated in Texas. Part of it is historical, but Baylor has deep, deep ties in the state going back to Sam Houston.

I think Baylor is underrated as academically in terms of its perception (though I do believe the school’s academic reputation is positive one). The school needs to do more in terms of research to elevate its status. Rejoining with Baylor medical has always been an on again, off again discussion. Baylor U was in the mix when the school was thinking of combing with Rice. Baylor has done a good job developing its STEM profiles and advanced degrees over the last decade and continues to move in a positive direction. Baylor alums seem to have visible presence in every major area in Texas and then some. (Likely because very few plan on living in Waco forever.)

SMU is perceived academically as very high. I think the school gets has a more positive outside perception than its reality justifies. I think SMU is right alongside Baylor and TCU and there isn’t really much separation between them. SMU receives much benefit from its Dallas connections and as a result places very well in that market. For example, receiving the Bush presidential library is a tremendous feather in their hat, but a feather they wouldn’t have received if they didn’t exist in Dallas. Fortunately for SMU, they do exist in Dallas and that is a benefit to them. Kudos. SMU is smaller, but they don’t have as large or deep a presence in the rest of the state. It is a very good school but I haven’t seen anything from them that would elevate them significantly above the others in terms of performance.

TCU is harder to judge, they were climbing very quickly and then stumbled back down. They are a good school with a good reputation. I don’t see much placement of TCU fans outside of Fort Worth.


Ultimately, I have no issues with the SMU, Baylor, TCU order, but simply think they are closer together than they are apart.
09-10-2020 11:54 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 11:37 AM)3BNole Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:24 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 06:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  We all know that the Ivy League is a consortium of expensive, highly selective, academically prestigious, elite universities. But what if there was a parallel organization for DI’s lowest rated, least reputable schools?

—the Poison Ivy League

What 8 schools would be in it?

Arizona St.
SMU
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Memphis
Wichita St.
FSU
Wisconsin

I don't follow. Half of those schools I would contest are quality schools by nearly all metrics.

Least reputable-These are all near the top of the list in NCAA major violations. So they do quality and quantity on cheating.

If that’s what the list is supposed to be then it was a pretty big fail. Wisconsin? Oklahoma? NCAA violations? What? And FSU had one incident with a professor over a decade ago which was self reported... so what are you even talking about?

If the list was the top violators and cheating, then where’s Auburn? Louisville? North Carolina? Kansas? Miami? I think it’s really just a list of schools you don’t like and tried to thinly cover up.

Free Shoes U? And there was no violation for covering up for Jameis Winston.

You just don't like facts. And facts are not friendly to FSU. I actually like FSU and Bobby Bowden. And you wouldn't expect Wisconsin on this list, but they are.

Now I was limited to 8 so I had to choose where it was close. The link listed a top 10.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/4289...ts-to-hold
09-10-2020 12:26 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 11:54 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:33 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:03 PM)johnintx Wrote:  That's pretty close to on target. Rice is at the top. UT and A&M are right behind them. SMU, Baylor and TCU are right there together. I'd switch Baylor with SMU, but there's not a whole lot of space between those three.

I'm not sure about Incarnate Word, but that's just my lack of knowledge. They'd be no lower than HBU. I'd move A&M-CC to around where Lamar is. By the time we're down this far on the list, we're grasping at straws. Good list.

Texas is clearly ahead of A&M. TCU is generally perceived as being better than SMU and Baylor. Houston should be #7 ahead of the rest of the publics. UT-Arlington would be between Texas Tech and North Texas. They are on target to qualify for the National Research University Fund in Texas next year. Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas have already qualified. The other eligible schools, UTEP, UTSA, Texas St. and UNT aren't close. Haven't paid attention recently, but Lamar was the best of the Southland Conference schools. They got a lot of good students from the Beaumont area who couldn't afford to go out of town for school while the rest of the SLC schools tended to get people who couldn't get into the better schools or just wanted a party school.

You don't spend much time in the outside world do you? He has the private schools ranked correctly.

It surprises me that SMU people are almost always as stereotyped. Arrogant, preppy and not serious. SMU is viewed as Vanderbilt lite. Vanderbilt without being elite academically. Good, but not elite. TCU is generally viewed as a more serious school.

Baylor has historically been a good, solid school targeted at the middle class (compared to TCU and SMU). However, it has been improving in spite of its athletic scandals.

Since we have several private school reps, I’ll go ahead and weigh in as well. I am Baylor Alum, with immediate family alums from SMU, Texas, TAMU, Houston, Tech, and Rice.

In terms of academic and professional performance, I think Baylor alums punch way above their weight. Their presence in political offices, corporate leadership, and community leadership is well in excess of their proportionate share of the college educated in Texas. Part of it is historical, but Baylor has deep, deep ties in the state going back to Sam Houston.

I think Baylor is underrated as academically in terms of its perception (though I do believe the school’s academic reputation is positive one). The school needs to do more in terms of research to elevate its status. Rejoining with Baylor medical has always been an on again, off again discussion. Baylor U was in the mix when the school was thinking of combing with Rice. Baylor has done a good job developing its STEM profiles and advanced degrees over the last decade and continues to move in a positive direction. Baylor alums seem to have visible presence in every major area in Texas and then some. (Likely because very few plan on living in Waco forever.)

SMU is perceived academically as very high. I think the school gets has a more positive outside perception than its reality justifies. I think SMU is right alongside Baylor and TCU and there isn’t really much separation between them. SMU receives much benefit from its Dallas connections and as a result places very well in that market. For example, receiving the Bush presidential library is a tremendous feather in their hat, but a feather they wouldn’t have received if they didn’t exist in Dallas. Fortunately for SMU, they do exist in Dallas and that is a benefit to them. Kudos. SMU is smaller, but they don’t have as large or deep a presence in the rest of the state. It is a very good school but I haven’t seen anything from them that would elevate them significantly above the others in terms of performance.

TCU is harder to judge, they were climbing very quickly and then stumbled back down. They are a good school with a good reputation. I don’t see much placement of TCU fans outside of Fort Worth.


Ultimately, I have no issues with the SMU, Baylor, TCU order, but simply think they are closer together than they are apart.

Baylor is a much bigger school than the other two. So you would expect to see more of them.
09-10-2020 12:29 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 11:54 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  In terms of academic and professional performance, I think Baylor alums punch way above their weight. Their presence in political offices, corporate leadership, and community leadership is well in excess of their proportionate share of the college educated in Texas. Part of it is historical, but Baylor has deep, deep ties in the state going back to Sam Houston.

I think Baylor is underrated as academically in terms of its perception (though I do believe the school’s academic reputation is positive one). The school needs to do more in terms of research to elevate its status. Rejoining with Baylor medical has always been an on again, off again discussion. Baylor U was in the mix when the school was thinking of combing with Rice. Baylor has done a good job developing its STEM profiles and advanced degrees over the last decade and continues to move in a positive direction. Baylor alums seem to have visible presence in every major area in Texas and then some. (Likely because very few plan on living in Waco forever.)

SMU is perceived academically as very high. I think the school gets has a more positive outside perception than its reality justifies. I think SMU is right alongside Baylor and TCU and there isn’t really much separation between them. SMU receives much benefit from its Dallas connections and as a result places very well in that market. For example, receiving the Bush presidential library is a tremendous feather in their hat, but a feather they wouldn’t have received if they didn’t exist in Dallas. Fortunately for SMU, they do exist in Dallas and that is a benefit to them. Kudos. SMU is smaller, but they don’t have as large or deep a presence in the rest of the state. It is a very good school but I haven’t seen anything from them that would elevate them significantly above the others in terms of performance.

TCU is harder to judge, they were climbing very quickly and then stumbled back down. They are a good school with a good reputation. I don’t see much placement of TCU fans outside of Fort Worth.

Agree with all points. Baylor is underrated and while very few outside the campus understand the (non) relationship between the university, the College of Medicine and the Medical Center, it's still a plus for the brand. The business program is strong but not as well known. Being in Waco doesn't help the reputational scores--in that sense it's like its Baptist brethren at Wake Forest, in that Winston-Salem doesn't carry the gravitas that Chapel Hill does.

SMU has all the tools and resources to be much better than it is, and outside of the law school, its impact within the community is marginal. It holds on to the frat-heavy, party school image to its detriment. At one time it thought of itself with Duke and Vanderbilt, but it's probably closer to Tulane. Years ago, an attorney from SMU told me this comparison which I've long remembered in comparing SMU vs. Georgetown (where I attended): He said, "SMU is a big deal in Dallas, but has less of a reputation the further away you go; Georgetown is not that big a deal in Washington DC, but has more of a reputation the further away you go."

TCU is a puzzle. It's BIG in Ft. Worth but elsewhere in the state, you won't find many alumni. Good in many things but not great in any of them, its graduate programs are very thin but the undergrads love it.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 01:23 PM by DFW HOYA.)
09-10-2020 01:23 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 12:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 11:37 AM)3BNole Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 09:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:24 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  Arizona St.
SMU
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Memphis
Wichita St.
FSU
Wisconsin

I don't follow. Half of those schools I would contest are quality schools by nearly all metrics.

Least reputable-These are all near the top of the list in NCAA major violations. So they do quality and quantity on cheating.

If that’s what the list is supposed to be then it was a pretty big fail. Wisconsin? Oklahoma? NCAA violations? What? And FSU had one incident with a professor over a decade ago which was self reported... so what are you even talking about?

If the list was the top violators and cheating, then where’s Auburn? Louisville? North Carolina? Kansas? Miami? I think it’s really just a list of schools you don’t like and tried to thinly cover up.

Free Shoes U? And there was no violation for covering up for Jameis Winston.

You just don't like facts. And facts are not friendly to FSU. I actually like FSU and Bobby Bowden. And you wouldn't expect Wisconsin on this list, but they are.

Now I was limited to 8 so I had to choose where it was close. The link listed a top 10.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/4289...ts-to-hold

Happy to see the Bleacher Report ranking of Major NCAA Violations had the ACC as fifth amongst the Power 5 conferences...this is one instance were a conference doesn’t want to be the leader.
09-10-2020 01:31 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Poison Ivy League
Fighting Muskie sure starts a lot of threads.
09-10-2020 01:39 PM
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schmolik Online
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Post: #35
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 01:31 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 12:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  Now I was limited to 8 so I had to choose where it was close. The link listed a top 10.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/4289...ts-to-hold

Happy to see the Bleacher Report ranking of Major NCAA Violations had the ACC as fifth amongst the Power 5 conferences...this is one instance were a conference doesn’t want to be the leader.

The post was dated "AUGUST 3, 2010" so the conference count today would be different than the count listed in the article. Specifically Texas A&M would be in the SEC now and not the Big 12.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 01:45 PM by schmolik.)
09-10-2020 01:42 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 01:39 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Fighting Muskie sure starts a lot of threads.

That’s the purpose of a discussion board, to have discussions
09-10-2020 04:06 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Poison Ivy League
My impression from the original post was that the list was supposed to be the worst schools academically, period. The poster didn't seem to be asking for a list of the worst NCAA rules violators or biggest party schools or football teams with easy majors or APR scores or whatever. If I'm right about the original post's intent, Free Shoes University, party school status, scandals, etc. are completely irrelevant.

By that metric, there is no way that Wisconsin, Texas A&M, Florida State, Arizona State, or anyone other than those in the Chicago State realm should be in the "Poison Ivy League."
09-10-2020 04:20 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 04:20 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  My impression from the original post was that the list was supposed to be the worst schools academically, period. The poster didn't seem to be asking for a list of the worst NCAA rules violators or biggest party schools or football teams with easy majors or APR scores or whatever. If I'm right about the original post's intent, Free Shoes University, party school status, scandals, etc. are completely irrelevant.

By that metric, there is no way that Wisconsin, Texas A&M, Florida State, Arizona State, or anyone other than those in the Chicago State realm should be in the "Poison Ivy League."

My impression was exactly as I posted. Disreputable sounds a lot more like cheaters than it does weak academic schools.

He later said he was talking primarily about academics, but that was not clear from the OP.
09-10-2020 04:40 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #39
RE: Poison Ivy League
Poison Ivy = opposite of Ivy

Thus, the opposite of the IVY League schools.
09-10-2020 04:42 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Poison Ivy League
(09-10-2020 01:23 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 11:54 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  In terms of academic and professional performance, I think Baylor alums punch way above their weight. Their presence in political offices, corporate leadership, and community leadership is well in excess of their proportionate share of the college educated in Texas. Part of it is historical, but Baylor has deep, deep ties in the state going back to Sam Houston.

I think Baylor is underrated as academically in terms of its perception (though I do believe the school’s academic reputation is positive one). The school needs to do more in terms of research to elevate its status. Rejoining with Baylor medical has always been an on again, off again discussion. Baylor U was in the mix when the school was thinking of combing with Rice. Baylor has done a good job developing its STEM profiles and advanced degrees over the last decade and continues to move in a positive direction. Baylor alums seem to have visible presence in every major area in Texas and then some. (Likely because very few plan on living in Waco forever.)

SMU is perceived academically as very high. I think the school gets has a more positive outside perception than its reality justifies. I think SMU is right alongside Baylor and TCU and there isn’t really much separation between them. SMU receives much benefit from its Dallas connections and as a result places very well in that market. For example, receiving the Bush presidential library is a tremendous feather in their hat, but a feather they wouldn’t have received if they didn’t exist in Dallas. Fortunately for SMU, they do exist in Dallas and that is a benefit to them. Kudos. SMU is smaller, but they don’t have as large or deep a presence in the rest of the state. It is a very good school but I haven’t seen anything from them that would elevate them significantly above the others in terms of performance.

TCU is harder to judge, they were climbing very quickly and then stumbled back down. They are a good school with a good reputation. I don’t see much placement of TCU fans outside of Fort Worth.

Agree with all points. Baylor is underrated and while very few outside the campus understand the (non) relationship between the university, the College of Medicine and the Medical Center, it's still a plus for the brand. The business program is strong but not as well known. Being in Waco doesn't help the reputational scores--in that sense it's like its Baptist brethren at Wake Forest, in that Winston-Salem doesn't carry the gravitas that Chapel Hill does.

SMU has all the tools and resources to be much better than it is, and outside of the law school, its impact within the community is marginal. It holds on to the frat-heavy, party school image to its detriment. At one time it thought of itself with Duke and Vanderbilt, but it's probably closer to Tulane. Years ago, an attorney from SMU told me this comparison which I've long remembered in comparing SMU vs. Georgetown (where I attended): He said, "SMU is a big deal in Dallas, but has less of a reputation the further away you go; Georgetown is not that big a deal in Washington DC, but has more of a reputation the further away you go."

TCU is a puzzle. It's BIG in Ft. Worth but elsewhere in the state, you won't find many alumni. Good in many things but not great in any of them, its graduate programs are very thin but the undergrads love it.

I moved to Houston from Fort Worth almost 15 years ago. From what I've seen, all of this is pretty much true. I see more TCU alums here than SMU, but that's purely anecdotal. TCU is big in Fort Worth, SMU is big in Dallas, and Baylor has spread itself throughout Texas (part of that is a function of being in Waco). They're all good private schools.

Agreed, Baylor punches way above its weight in the power structures of Texas.
09-10-2020 04:53 PM
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