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Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
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MWCRobert Offline
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Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
BYU is pursuing a Texas-heavy schedule this COVID-impacted season, and has the following Texas schools on the schedule.

@ Houston
vs Texas State
vs UTSA


BYU athletic director Tom Holmoe has stated he is still looking for 2-3 more games. Probably 2 road games and 1 home game.

Would be thrilled if BYU and RICE could schedule each other, and extend our series. Both are private schools, and BYU fans hold Rice in high esteem, because if its great academics.

Let's get it DONE!!!!!
09-09-2020 01:19 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
Unfortunately, the powers that be at Rice seem intent on reducing the number of games this season, likely to zero, having just opted out of the 1st two scheduled CUSA games after all scheduled OOC games were canceled or “postponed” (read canceled) including games versus Houston, LSU and Army.

Best look elsewhere.
09-09-2020 01:37 PM
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MWCRobert Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 01:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Unfortunately, the powers that be at Rice seem intent on reducing the number of games this season, likely to zero, having just opted out of the 1st two scheduled CUSA games after all scheduled OOC games were canceled or “postponed” (read canceled) including games versus Houston, LSU and Army.

Best look elsewhere.

That's too bad.

Rice and BYU should be trying to play each other in football on a frequent basis. The two schools are not that dissimilar.

Would have preferred for BYU to play Rice (we are playing Houston). But my guess is if Rice is taking this approach, BYU might schedule Marshall or UAB.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2020 01:41 PM by MWCRobert.)
09-09-2020 01:41 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 01:41 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 01:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Unfortunately, the powers that be at Rice seem intent on reducing the number of games this season, likely to zero, having just opted out of the 1st two scheduled CUSA games after all scheduled OOC games were canceled or “postponed” (read canceled) including games versus Houston, LSU and Army.

Best look elsewhere.

That's too bad.

Rice and BYU should be trying to play each other in football on a frequent basis. The two schools are not that dissimilar.

Would have preferred for BYU to play Rice (we are playing Houston). But my guess is if Rice is taking this approach, BYU might schedule Marshall or UAB.

Both should have open dates as those are the 2 CUSA games Rice dropped.

And I agree that Rice and BYU should be playing one another on a regular basis. Lots of BYU alums in the Houston area.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2020 01:49 PM by Tomball Owl.)
09-09-2020 01:48 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 01:41 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 01:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Unfortunately, the powers that be at Rice seem intent on reducing the number of games this season, likely to zero, having just opted out of the 1st two scheduled CUSA games after all scheduled OOC games were canceled or “postponed” (read canceled) including games versus Houston, LSU and Army.

Best look elsewhere.

That's too bad.

Rice and BYU should be trying to play each other in football on a frequent basis. The two schools are not that dissimilar.

Would have preferred for BYU to play Rice (we are playing Houston). But my guess is if Rice is taking this approach, BYU might schedule Marshall or UAB.

Good rule of thumb: If it makes sense, don't count on Rice to do it.
09-09-2020 03:04 PM
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MWCRobert Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 03:04 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 01:41 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 01:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Unfortunately, the powers that be at Rice seem intent on reducing the number of games this season, likely to zero, having just opted out of the 1st two scheduled CUSA games after all scheduled OOC games were canceled or “postponed” (read canceled) including games versus Houston, LSU and Army.

Best look elsewhere.

That's too bad.

Rice and BYU should be trying to play each other in football on a frequent basis. The two schools are not that dissimilar.

Would have preferred for BYU to play Rice (we are playing Houston). But my guess is if Rice is taking this approach, BYU might schedule Marshall or UAB.

Good rule of thumb: If it makes sense, don't count on Rice to do it.

OK. Please forgive me for speaking openly if it offends anyone.

But, I've never come across a school like Rice, where alums almost seem universally down on their School.

I get the respect of Rice academics. But almost everyone seems depressed about the state of Owls Athletics, and specifically football and basketball.

Rice isn't that TINY of an enrollment. I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest. And would expanding undergrad enrollment by say 3,000 additional students hurt the school that much? Duke, TCU and Notre Dame have more undergrads, and they seem to be doing alright.
09-09-2020 04:15 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 04:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  [quote='illiniowl' pid='16984480' dateline='1599681872']
[quote='MWCRobert' pid='16984327' dateline='1599676873']

OK. Please forgive me for speaking openly if it offends anyone.

But, I've never come across a school like Rice, where alums almost seem universally down on their School.

I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest.

No offense taken. What you sense is coming from some of the strongest supporters of Rice Athletics. We don’t understand the lack of University support either, but suspect it’s intentional.
09-09-2020 06:31 PM
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MWCRobert Offline
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 06:31 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 04:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  [quote='illiniowl' pid='16984480' dateline='1599681872']
[quote='MWCRobert' pid='16984327' dateline='1599676873']

OK. Please forgive me for speaking openly if it offends anyone.

But, I've never come across a school like Rice, where alums almost seem universally down on their School.

I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest.

No offense taken. What you sense is coming from some of the strongest supporters of Rice Athletics. We don’t understand the lack of University support either, but suspect it’s intentional.

That's too bad, and I'm sure frustrating.

Rice seems to have everything set up...they just probably need a bit larger enrollment, and more investment from the leadership. Houston has a lot of cash, and so I'm guessing they could find the money if they wanted to.
09-09-2020 07:15 PM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 04:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  Rice isn't that TINY of an enrollment. I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest. And would expanding undergrad enrollment by say 3,000 additional students hurt the school that much? Duke, TCU and Notre Dame have more undergrads, and they seem to be doing alright.

IBID to Tomball's comments.

It's important to note that we've already expanded our enrollment pretty substantially, especially in our graduate programs which don't often really help athletics. Taking us to 7,000 undergraduate really probably isn't feasible in our footprint. We'd literally have to double our dorm and classroom space.

Undergraduate enrollment
1930 1300
1950 1400
1970 2400
1990 2700
2010 3500
2020 4000

Graduate enrollment
1930 65
1950 127
1970 700
1990 1300
2010 2300
2020 3200

I think the problem is that the focus of the University has been on graduate programs and rankings... and athletics don't have much to do with that. Rice USED to focus on keeping strong southern, especially Texas students in the south... which means a lot of our students grew up with Texas sports.
09-09-2020 08:44 PM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
Rice had it 60 years ago when they dominated football in Houston. It took many bad decisions, the NFL coming in and University of Houston improving to ruin it. BYU would be a good opponent because they are one of the few schools with a national following so they will bring many fans to where ever they play.

(09-09-2020 07:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 06:31 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 04:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  [quote='illiniowl' pid='16984480' dateline='1599681872']
[quote='MWCRobert' pid='16984327' dateline='1599676873']

OK. Please forgive me for speaking openly if it offends anyone.

But, I've never come across a school like Rice, where alums almost seem universally down on their School.

I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest.

No offense taken. What you sense is coming from some of the strongest supporters of Rice Athletics. We don’t understand the lack of University support either, but suspect it’s intentional.

That's too bad, and I'm sure frustrating.

Rice seems to have everything set up...they just probably need a bit larger enrollment, and more investment from the leadership. Houston has a lot of cash, and so I'm guessing they could find the money if they wanted to.
09-09-2020 09:59 PM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
And we lost another school with a national following for the schedule Army but i do expect the Rice athletic department to make sense.
09-09-2020 10:07 PM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 07:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  Rice seems to have everything set up...they just probably need a bit larger enrollment, and more investment from the leadership. Houston has a lot of cash, and so I'm guessing they could find the money if they wanted to.

They could find the money in the endowment if they wanted to. But ever since hiring Bo Hagan instead of Ray Graves or Tommy Prothro in 1967, it has been pretty clear that Rice didn't want to.

Here's what I don't understand. Ken Pitzer was president of the university at the time, and lots of people blame him. But he left Rice to go to Stanford, at about the same time that Stanford made a huge investment in athletics that is still paying off today. So did Pitzer change, or was he not the problem, or was the atmosphere at Stanford just so much more pro-athletics?

If Rice had made the kind of investment in athletics in the late 1960s and early 1970s that Stanford did, Rice would have been pretty much my perfect university. They didn't, and if I were graduating from HS today, I don't even think I would consider Rice.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2020 11:42 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-09-2020 11:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 07:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  Rice seems to have everything set up...they just probably need a bit larger enrollment, and more investment from the leadership. Houston has a lot of cash, and so I'm guessing they could find the money if they wanted to.

They could find the money in the endowment if they wanted to. But ever since hiring Bo Hagan instead of Ray Graves or Tommy Prothro in 1967, it has been pretty clear that Rice didn't want to.

Here's what I don't understand. Ken Pitzer was president of the university at the time, and lots of people blame him. But he left Rice to go to Stanford, at about the same time that Stanford made a huge investment in athletics that is still paying off today. So did Pitzer change, or was he not the problem, or was the atmosphere at Stanford just so much more pro-athletics?

If Rice had made the kind of investment in athletics in the late 1960s and early 1970s that Stanford did, Rice would have been pretty much my perfect university. They didn't, and if I were graduating from HS today, I don't even think I would consider Rice.

It had nothing to do with Pitzer. Rather, it was in the same mid-to-late 1960s period that a couple mega donors stepped up at Stanford and started their huge athletic endowment, which included the building/renovation of all facilities. Our biggest donors earmark their funds toward the Doerr Institute, the Welch institute and the Opera Center.
09-10-2020 07:18 AM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 07:18 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  It had nothing to do with Pitzer. Rather, it was in the same mid-to-late 1960s period that a couple mega donors stepped up at Stanford and started their huge athletic endowment, which included the building/renovation of all facilities. Our biggest donors earmark their funds toward the Doerr Institute, the Welch institute and the Opera Center.

I know that's what happened. I'm commenting on why, not what. My point is that the claim is that Pitzer put Rice on the road to athletic oblivion (and in fairness, it did happen on his watch), but about the time he got to Stanford the athletic endowment grew exponentially. To the extent that development led him, it's curious that he would go to a place that was making that kind of move; to the extent that it followed him, he obviously had to have some input at some point. It's just curious timing. If he were totally opposed to athletics, then I would assume there would have been some effort to direct the money that went to the Stanford athletic endowment somewhere else. I do wonder that since he was a Stanford alum, and Stanford has pretty much always been about, "brains and brawn," did he have some higher place in his mind for Stanford athletics than for Rice athletics? One other thought that I've had is that maybe he worried about the potential drain on the endowment that has come to reality, and maybe he tried to address that by trying to line up an endowment like the one Stanford built, but was unable to do so. I find that hard to believe, but I just don't know. The whole juxtaposition strikes me as curious.

In 1965, Rice and Stanford were pretty close to the same place athletically. Today, they are light years apart. And the decisions made in the late 1960s drove a lot of the separation.

I mean, I know donors step up to give for what they want. But presidents have opportunities to shape that quite a bit. I get the impression that if I wanted to donate a billion to Rice athletics, my response would be something like, "Why don't you donate it to an opera house instead?" Obviously that wasn't the response at Stanford, and Pitzer was president during at least part of the time when that wasn't the response.

Maybe if T Boone Pickens had transferred from aTm to Rice instead of Okie State, we'd be Stanford today.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 10:39 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-10-2020 10:30 AM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 10:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 07:18 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  It had nothing to do with Pitzer. Rather, it was in the same mid-to-late 1960s period that a couple mega donors stepped up at Stanford and started their huge athletic endowment, which included the building/renovation of all facilities. Our biggest donors earmark their funds toward the Doerr Institute, the Welch institute and the Opera Center.

I know that's what happened. I'm commenting on why, not what. My point is that the claim is that Pitzer put Rice on the road to athletic oblivion (and in fairness, it did happen on his watch), but about the time he got to Stanford the athletic endowment grew exponentially. To the extent that development led him, it's curious that he would go to a place that was making that kind of move; to the extent that it followed him, he obviously had to have some input at some point. It's just curious timing. If he were totally opposed to athletics, then I would assume there would have been some effort to direct the money that went to the Stanford athletic endowment somewhere else. I do wonder that since he was a Stanford alum, and Stanford has pretty much always been about, "brains and brawn," did he have some higher place in his mind for Stanford athletics than for Rice athletics? One other thought that I've had is that maybe he worried about the potential drain on the endowment that has come to reality, and maybe he tried to address that by trying to line up an endowment like the one Stanford built, but was unable to do so. I find that hard to believe, but I just don't know. The whole juxtaposition strikes me as curious.

In 1965, Rice and Stanford were pretty close to the same place athletically. Today, they are light years apart. And the decisions made in the late 1960s drove a lot of the separation.

I mean, I know donors step up to give for what they want. But presidents have opportunities to shape that quite a bit. I get the impression that if I wanted to donate a billion to Rice athletics, my response would be something like, "Why don't you donate it to an opera house instead?" Obviously that wasn't the response at Stanford, and Pitzer was president during at least part of the time when that wasn't the response.

Maybe if T Boone Pickens had transferred from aTm to Rice instead of Okie State, we'd be Stanford today.

Stanford is more about visionary leadership than just an infusion of money.
Pitzer wasn't a Stanford alum (Cal Tech and doctorate from Cal). So, you hypothesis that he had grander plans for Stanford athletics than Rice doesn't pan out.
Speaking mostly regarding football, Stanford has had a few visionary coaches to help improve their lot and expanding upon the leadership of others. Interestingly, Stanford first raided Michigan and brought in Fielding Yost. This was repeated nearly a century later when they brought in Harbaugh. The Stanford innovators were Yost, Pop Warner, Clark Shaughnessy, John Ralston, Bill Walsh and then Harbaugh. The only coach who was able to maintain and sustain was David Shaw who wasn't an innovator and program changer. Stanford tried to sustain after Walsh and was able to do so some with Dennis Green and Tyrone Willingham.
So, trying to follow a "Stanford" model in football for Rice is going to likely lead to the same drops in performance that Stanford has seen. Even the visionary leaders at Stanford made some questionable decisions with football leadership which lead to a degradation of performance. Interestingly, Northwestern has some parallels to Rice. They looked to follow a Stanford like model in leadership with Dennis Green. But it was their decision to bring in Barnett that started a change. He left and they brought in Walker which under unfortunate circumstances lead to their best visionary leader, Fitzgerald. Interestingly, Fitzgerald, and Shaw at Stanford, have been able to maintain the advancements of their predecessors. And they both are alums and do likely have grand plans for their alma maters (taking this back to your original hypothesis).
09-10-2020 11:51 AM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 11:51 AM)ruowls Wrote:  Stanford is more about visionary leadership than just an infusion of money.
Pitzer wasn't a Stanford alum (Cal Tech and doctorate from Cal). So, you hypothesis that he had grander plans for Stanford athletics than Rice doesn't pan out.
Speaking mostly regarding football, Stanford has had a few visionary coaches to help improve their lot and expanding upon the leadership of others. Interestingly, Stanford first raided Michigan and brought in Fielding Yost. This was repeated nearly a century later when they brought in Harbaugh. The Stanford innovators were Yost, Pop Warner, Clark Shaughnessy, John Ralston, Bill Walsh and then Harbaugh. The only coach who was able to maintain and sustain was David Shaw who wasn't an innovator and program changer. Stanford tried to sustain after Walsh and was able to do so some with Dennis Green and Tyrone Willingham.
So, trying to follow a "Stanford" model in football for Rice is going to likely lead to the same drops in performance that Stanford has seen. Even the visionary leaders at Stanford made some questionable decisions with football leadership which lead to a degradation of performance. Interestingly, Northwestern has some parallels to Rice. They looked to follow a Stanford like model in leadership with Dennis Green. But it was their decision to bring in Barnett that started a change. He left and they brought in Walker which under unfortunate circumstances lead to their best visionary leader, Fitzgerald. Interestingly, Fitzgerald, and Shaw at Stanford, have been able to maintain the advancements of their predecessors. And they both are alums and do likely have grand plans for their alma maters (taking this back to your original hypothesis).

Wow, about Pitzer, I always thought he was a Stanford guy. I guess being from California confused me a bit.

I don't think the Stanford model works in the particulars. What I think works is the level of commitment to athletics, across the board. And regardless of the alma mater issue, what is clear is that Stanford made a very different decision about commitment from the decision Rice made, and Pitzer (who gets blamed by many for the lack of commitment at Rice) was also at Stanford during the time that they were making and/or implementing a very different decision about commitment to athletics.

Just seems weird that he would dump on athletics at Rice and then embrace them at Stanford. Maybe he didn't actually embrace them, and it came from elsewhere in the organization. I don't know. But it has just always seemed weird to me.

One thing I will say, visionary leadership has never been part of Rice, except maybe in the Lovett/Houston days, and particularly not part of Rice athletics.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 02:58 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 02:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 11:51 AM)ruowls Wrote:  Stanford is more about visionary leadership than just an infusion of money.
Pitzer wasn't a Stanford alum (Cal Tech and doctorate from Cal). So, you hypothesis that he had grander plans for Stanford athletics than Rice doesn't pan out.
Speaking mostly regarding football, Stanford has had a few visionary coaches to help improve their lot and expanding upon the leadership of others. Interestingly, Stanford first raided Michigan and brought in Fielding Yost. This was repeated nearly a century later when they brought in Harbaugh. The Stanford innovators were Yost, Pop Warner, Clark Shaughnessy, John Ralston, Bill Walsh and then Harbaugh. The only coach who was able to maintain and sustain was David Shaw who wasn't an innovator and program changer. Stanford tried to sustain after Walsh and was able to do so some with Dennis Green and Tyrone Willingham.
So, trying to follow a "Stanford" model in football for Rice is going to likely lead to the same drops in performance that Stanford has seen. Even the visionary leaders at Stanford made some questionable decisions with football leadership which lead to a degradation of performance. Interestingly, Northwestern has some parallels to Rice. They looked to follow a Stanford like model in leadership with Dennis Green. But it was their decision to bring in Barnett that started a change. He left and they brought in Walker which under unfortunate circumstances lead to their best visionary leader, Fitzgerald. Interestingly, Fitzgerald, and Shaw at Stanford, have been able to maintain the advancements of their predecessors. And they both are alums and do likely have grand plans for their alma maters (taking this back to your original hypothesis).

Wow, about Pitzer, I always thought he was a Stanford guy. I guess being from California confused me a bit.

I don't think the Stanford model works in the particulars. What I think works is the level of commitment to athletics, across the board. And regardless of the alma mater issue, what is clear is that Stanford made a very different decision about commitment from the decision Rice made, and Pitzer (who gets blamed by many for the lack of commitment at Rice) was also at Stanford during the time that they were making and/or implementing a very different decision about commitment to athletics.

Just seems weird that he would dump on athletics at Rice and then embrace them at Stanford. Maybe he didn't actually embrace them, and it came from elsewhere in the organization. I don't know. But it has just always seemed weird to me.

One thing I will say, visionary leadership has never been part of Rice, except maybe in the Lovett/Houston days, and particularly not part of Rice athletics.

Oops, forgot to add this: https://historicalsociety.stanford.edu/d.../athletics

It is an oral history into the thinking of Stanford athletic leaders in their quest to go from good to great.
I didn't listen to it nor do I plan to.
My point about Stanford is that it had some visionary leaders who weren't the president of the University. And the president of Stanford wasn't the driving force. So, the president of Rice most likely won't be the driving force there. The drivers were there to make some decisions and provide direction for the betterment of the athletic program. What shows up is that they weren't always right in choosing the leaders of the football program or basketball for that matter. But, they were able to find some leaders who made a difference. It also shows that they were able to recognize and move forward from mistakes. And sometimes they made multiple mistakes in succession.
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
So Stanford athletics had visionary leaders and Rice had Bo Hagan.
09-10-2020 03:54 PM
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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 03:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So Stanford athletics had visionary leaders and Rice had Bo Hagan.

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RE: Attention Rice Owls Fans -- BYU is looking for 2-3 more games.
(09-10-2020 03:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So Stanford athletics had visionary leaders and Rice had Bo Hagan.

So Stanford had something Rice didn't then. Well fortunately (maybe?), Rice has something Stanford doesn't now.
09-10-2020 04:34 PM
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