(09-09-2020 08:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 04:15 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  Rice isn't that TINY of an enrollment. I don't understand why the school doesn't try to improve their athletics and fan interest. And would expanding undergrad enrollment by say 3,000 additional students hurt the school that much? Duke, TCU and Notre Dame have more undergrads, and they seem to be doing alright.

IBID to Tomball's comments.

It's important to note that we've already expanded our enrollment pretty substantially, especially in our graduate programs which don't often really help athletics. Taking us to 7,000 undergraduate really probably isn't feasible in our footprint. We'd literally have to double our dorm and classroom space.

Undergraduate enrollment
1930 1300
1950 1400
1970 2400
1990 2700
2010 3500
2020 4000

Graduate enrollment
1930 65
1950 127
1970 700
1990 1300
2010 2300
2020 3200

I think the problem is that the focus of the University has been on graduate programs and rankings... and athletics don't have much to do with that. Rice USED to focus on keeping strong southern, especially Texas students in the south... which means a lot of our students grew up with Texas sports.

Rice is still 40% Texan, but I agree that they are actively trying to recruit students outside of the state, and not focusing on recruiting in the state (not sure what region is most heavily recruited).

Did we actually focus on keeping strong southern students in the south? Or was it just a byproduct of our location and the times? When did the strategy change?

Maybe not this year after BYU beat Navy 55-3.

A former client of mine (retired energy executive, maybe 8-10 years ago) was really involved in TCU athletics. He was on an advisory board for the AD and was always traveling to games for many different sports. My client actually had attended another SWC school (not TCU) so I was curious how/why he became involved there. He said the AD reached out to him and a number of people like him (successful high-level executives) and offered them this unofficial but meaningful advisory council. The AD explained that when the SWC broke up, TCU decided to try and use sports (and football specifically) as a means to build the academic brand and reputation of the university as a whole. It obviously succeeded beyond anybody's wildest dreams. Applications to the school exploded when they started making bowl games. They could be more selective, increase academic rankings, and more easily push through tuition increases, etc. (That part is what my client said - I have no data on that last statement.)

Anyway, when I think of visionary leadership that is the model that always pops in my head. Unfortunately we pissed that opportunity away with "unconventional wisdom." I place the blame squarely on university leadership 100% for not having a real strategic plan. It's probably too late now.

BTW I would love it if we scheduled BYU this year. The opportunity to pickup a national game against a traditional power with a huge fan base. Of course Rice is currently making excuses to not play football, which is again more of the unconventional wisdom that got us where we are today.

(09-10-2020 05:06 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Did we actually focus on keeping strong southern students in the south? Or was it just a byproduct of our location and the times? When did the strategy change?

Chicken or egg.

There were numerous conversations a few years ago (10-15??) talking about increasing the geographic diversity of the University as it related to some rankings.... about the same time we started expanding/building more dorms as I recall. That's my anecdotal recollection.

After writing that, I found this link...

Based on this link... https://oir.rice.edu/students-scholars/e...mographics

Fall 2004 (which is the oldest data they show) we were 53% Texas, 44% out of state and 3% international in undergraduate enrollment
Fall 2019 we are 41% Texas, 47% out of state and 12% international

So I'm pretty close.

Especially when you consider an enrollment increase of about 30% during that period, that's meaningful I think.

If you look at 'ALL' students....
2019 7170 students....38% Texas, 38% out of state 25% international
2004 4854 students.... 52% Texas, 33% out of state and 14% international.

I think we were probably more like 60+% Texas in the 80's, in part because our peer group for many student interactions was UT, A&M, SMU etc... and there was more student interest in athletics because you were often playing 'friends' who went to those other schools. I'd say that the average Rice student from Texas has more high school friends who went to those schools than they do who go to UTSA, UNT and UTEP, much less La Tech and Charlotte.


Somewhere in there we also went from being 'the best value in undergraduate education' by offering a very low tuition rate relative to our academic peers, to being somewhat less of a value by charging much higher tuition, but giving big scholarships... same net revenue/expense. That decision too was based on rankings as I recall.

(09-11-2020 10:01 AM)Baconator Wrote:  A former client of mine (retired energy executive, maybe 8-10 years ago) was really involved in TCU athletics. He was on an advisory board for the AD and was always traveling to games for many different sports. My client actually had attended another SWC school (not TCU) so I was curious how/why he became involved there. He said the AD reached out to him and a number of people like him (successful high-level executives) and offered them this unofficial but meaningful advisory council. The AD explained that when the SWC broke up, TCU decided to try and use sports (and football specifically) as a means to build the academic brand and reputation of the university as a whole. It obviously succeeded beyond anybody's wildest dreams. Applications to the school exploded when they started making bowl games. They could be more selective, increase academic rankings, and more easily push through tuition increases, etc. (That part is what my client said - I have no data on that last statement.)
Anyway, when I think of visionary leadership that is the model that always pops in my head. Unfortunately we pissed that opportunity away with "unconventional wisdom." I place the blame squarely on university leadership 100% for not having a real strategic plan. It's probably too late now.

When TCU got dumped out of the SWC/XII, they made a conscious and intentional decision to do whatever it took to get back. They made themselves Fort Worth's hometown team in a way that Rice never did with Houston (and probably can't now with the rise of UH). I told Bobby in 1994 that we'd better watch what TCU does and follow their lead. It paid off for them. They're back. We're not, and probably never will be.

The fact that TCU was for years a destination school for ranchers' kids from west of Fort Worth, who went back to their ranches and found the Barnett Shale underneath, didn't hurt a bit, per my conversation with a certain TCU athletic director. Coincidentally, or perhaps not, that athletic director was also the last Rice athletic director that I would describe as visionary.

Rice fans,

Is there space to expand the Rice University campus? Or is it all built out? (this is an issue for some of the WCC schools, of which BYU is a member).

Also, a problem that some of the California schools are experiencing is their chasing after Chinese / Korean students (not talking race, but foreign country students). These students will pay high out of state tuition for an academically prestigious University, and are a source of cash for the school, but are obviously less interested in sports, and tend not to donate to the school after graduation.

Looks like Rice is chasing that model. It's a loser in my opinion, as those foreign students do not build up the University. Rice would have a bigger, more loyal alumni and fanbase if they focused on more American students from the South and from Texas. Foreign students tend to leave the area after graduation.

https://oir.rice.edu/students-scholars/e...mographics

I just smiled at the memory of dragging my pregnant wife out to HRS on a rainy night to watch Rice beat BYU. Then I realized that the child she was carrying is now 22 years old and out of college. Wow - the "good old days" sure are a long time ago.

(09-11-2020 03:46 PM)MWCRobert Wrote:  Rice fans,

Is there space to expand the Rice University campus? Or is it all built out? (this is an issue for some of the WCC schools, of which BYU is a member).

Also, a problem that some of the California schools are experiencing is their chasing after Chinese / Korean students (not talking race, but foreign country students). These students will pay high out of state tuition for an academically prestigious University, and are a source of cash for the school, but are obviously less interested in sports, and tend not to donate to the school after graduation.

Looks like Rice is chasing that model. It's a loser in my opinion, as those foreign students do not build up the University. Rice would have a bigger, more loyal alumni and fanbase if they focused on more American students from the South and from Texas. Foreign students tend to leave the area after graduation.

https://oir.rice.edu/students-scholars/e...mographics

Don't disagree on the latter... I'm sure us being a relative bargain as compared to 'out of state' tuition for state schools is true... and that applies not only to International students, but also to students merely out of state. In state tuition at Berkeley is 14k but out of state is 45k. The lack of familiarity with many American sports and not remaining local is also often true. Our former coach actually had days when he invited students, often foreign students down to experience a day as a player.

As to expansion... Rice owns most if not all of a shopping area known as 'the village' right next door. We also own a large parcel just south of the school which couldn't be used for regular classes, but arguably could house a graduate program. The campus could still grow some as we have a decent amount of greenspace (at least as compared to most 'in town' schools) and only a few high-rise structures... but I don't really think that a big expansion is remotely in our vision.

Louisiana Tech just accepted the challenge. They travel to play BYU on October 2nd.