Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
Author Message
Michael in Raleigh Online
1st String
*

Posts: 2,016
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 87
I Root For: App State
Location:
Post: #101
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 01:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

FWIW, I don't think most regard UConn basketball as "blue blood". They are "nouveaux riche", new money. Like Bill Gates. Blue bloods are Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCLA and Indiana. Like FSU and Miami aren't blue bloods in football either.

UCLA is barely still a blue blood. They're more the opposite of "nouveaux riche." The "old money" was as solid, if not more so, through the 70's as the other blue bloods, but they're two or three generations down the road now, and that trust fund money is starting to dry up. Same, to a lesser degree, for Indiana.
09-12-2020 11:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jedclampett Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,025
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 87
I Root For: Temple
Location:
Post: #102
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:43 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

My beliefs are that all the schools cheat at some point and time whether its football or bb and even the non revenue sports to a lessor degree, maybe. The schools that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating.

It may be true that most schools have violated NCAA rules at some point in their history. It's similar to the reports that most married spouses cheat on their spouses at some point in their lives.

So would you also agree with these statements: (?)

"My beliefs are that all married persons cheat on their partners at some point and time. The husbands or wives that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating."

"My beliefs are that all college students cheat to get better grades at some point and time. The students that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating."

A blithe statement like that, by a husband or wife, or by a college student or graduate, would come across to most people as an indication or hint that a person who makes such a statement may well be trying to justify a history of cheating on their own spouse, or in college.

Why? Because most people who have haven't cheated would consider such statements to be (a) overly cynical and (b) over-generalizations.

.

Thus, while you may not have been trying to justify cheating in college sports, your statement, above, tends to come across that way.

.

Most fans are opposed to cheating, on the FB field, or when NCAA rules are violated. The NCAA authorities who evaluate and sanction rule violations are functioning on behalf of the majority of fans who don't want to see the game ruined by cheating scandals.

It's kind of similar to public attitudes about organized crime. There is a segment of the population that accepts organized crime and even gets a kick out of it when a mobster gets away with major offenses. However, the majority are glad to see mobsters brought to justice, just like the majority of cfb and cbb fans want the violators of NCAA rules to be sanctioned.

Keeping it simple, the fans of teams a, b, c, d, e, f, g, & h want to see school "x" be sanctioned and penalized for a significant NCAA rule violation, because to let school "x" get away with their violations would result in having their teams being dominated in future conference action.

Another reason why cheating in college sports is disrespected is that higher education is supposed to motivate young people to develop honest skills and to eschew cheating. From the standpoint of professors, parents, and future employers, a young person who is found to have gotten ahead in school by cheating is considered to have major character flaws.

Cheating in higher education (e.g., hiring someone to take the SAT for a student) can even be considered a criminal offense, and it can prevent a graduate from a medical or law school from becoming a licensed professional.

.

That's why UConn BB's decades of recruiting violations have tarnished the University and its teams in an enduring way.


.

Moreover, it is incorrect to suggest that UConn has had the best MBB program of all the teams in the AAC:

Number of seasons that teams have finished in the AP Final Top 25:

Cincinnati: 25 (beginning in 1950)

UConn: 16 (beginning in 1953)

Memphis: 16 (beginning in 1956)



Based on the AP Final 25 rankings, if there is a "blueblood" BB school in the AAC, it is Cincinnati, not UConn.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020 06:29 AM by jedclampett.)
09-13-2020 06:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,433
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 1033
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #103
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-12-2020 11:11 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 01:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

FWIW, I don't think most regard UConn basketball as "blue blood". They are "nouveaux riche", new money. Like Bill Gates. Blue bloods are Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCLA and Indiana. Like FSU and Miami aren't blue bloods in football either.

UCLA is barely still a blue blood. They're more the opposite of "nouveaux riche." The "old money" was as solid, if not more so, through the 70's as the other blue bloods, but they're two or three generations down the road now, and that trust fund money is starting to dry up. Same, to a lesser degree, for Indiana.

UCLA has had a rough five years. But still, they've made the Sweet Sixteen three times in the last six years. I don't see how their BB credentials aren't rock-solid. They lead or are first or second in most major legacy catagories.
09-13-2020 06:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,433
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 1033
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #104
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-13-2020 06:02 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
That's why UConn BB's decades of recruiting violations have tarnished the University and its teams in an enduring way.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Based on the AP Final 25 rankings, if there is a "blueblood" BB school in the AAC, it is Cincinnati, not UConn.

"Decades"? I can recall the recent violations under Ollie, and the 2010 violation under Calhoun that resulted in game suspensions in 2012-2012. Is there something else?

As for Cincy, their problem is that just about all of their national achievements pre-date the AAC era. Heck they pre-date their time in the Big East. They haven't been to an Elite 8 in 25 years. That's too much water under the bridge to be compared with UConn these days.
09-13-2020 06:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,179
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 154
I Root For: VUMemIUDePaulNC
Location: Tower Crane Town
Post: #105
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-13-2020 06:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-13-2020 06:02 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
That's why UConn BB's decades of recruiting violations have tarnished the University and its teams in an enduring way.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Based on the AP Final 25 rankings, if there is a "blueblood" BB school in the AAC, it is Cincinnati, not UConn.

"Decades"? I can recall the recent violations under Ollie, and the 2010 violation under Calhoun that resulted in game suspensions in 2012-2012. Is there something else?

As for Cincy, their problem is that just about all of their national achievements pre-date the AAC era. Heck they pre-date their time in the Big East. They haven't been to an Elite 8 in 25 years. That's too much water under the bridge to be compared with UConn these days.


I agree with this and I'm a Cincinnati fan. I also agree that UConn is not a blue blood program. Such programs (and there are very few) have been very good to outstanding since (generally speaking) at least the 1950s. Still, both Cincinnati and UConn are top 25 all-time programs.
09-13-2020 07:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cuseroc Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 14,381
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 423
I Root For: Syracuse
Location: Rochester/Sarasota

Donators
Post: #106
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-13-2020 06:02 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:43 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

My beliefs are that all the schools cheat at some point and time whether its football or bb and even the non revenue sports to a lessor degree, maybe. The schools that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating.

It may be true that most schools have violated NCAA rules at some point in their history. It's similar to the reports that most married spouses cheat on their spouses at some point in their lives.

So would you also agree with these statements: (?)

"My beliefs are that all married persons cheat on their partners at some point and time. The husbands or wives that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating."

"My beliefs are that all college students cheat to get better grades at some point and time. The students that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating."

A blithe statement like that, by a husband or wife, or by a college student or graduate, would come across to most people as an indication or hint that a person who makes such a statement may well be trying to justify a history of cheating on their own spouse, or in college.

Why? Because most people who have haven't cheated would consider such statements to be (a) overly cynical and (b) over-generalizations.

.

Thus, while you may not have been trying to justify cheating in college sports, your statement, above, tends to come across that way.

.

Most fans are opposed to cheating, on the FB field, or when NCAA rules are violated. The NCAA authorities who evaluate and sanction rule violations are functioning on behalf of the majority of fans who don't want to see the game ruined by cheating scandals.

It's kind of similar to public attitudes about organized crime. There is a segment of the population that accepts organized crime and even gets a kick out of it when a mobster gets away with major offenses. However, the majority are glad to see mobsters brought to justice, just like the majority of cfb and cbb fans want the violators of NCAA rules to be sanctioned.

Keeping it simple, the fans of teams a, b, c, d, e, f, g, & h want to see school "x" be sanctioned and penalized for a significant NCAA rule violation, because to let school "x" get away with their violations would result in having their teams being dominated in future conference action.

Another reason why cheating in college sports is disrespected is that higher education is supposed to motivate young people to develop honest skills and to eschew cheating. From the standpoint of professors, parents, and future employers, a young person who is found to have gotten ahead in school by cheating is considered to have major character flaws.

Cheating in higher education (e.g., hiring someone to take the SAT for a student) can even be considered a criminal offense, and it can prevent a graduate from a medical or law school from becoming a licensed professional.

.

That's why UConn BB's decades of recruiting violations have tarnished the University and its teams in an enduring way.


.

Moreover, it is incorrect to suggest that UConn has had the best MBB program of all the teams in the AAC:

Number of seasons that teams have finished in the AP Final Top 25:

Cincinnati: 25 (beginning in 1950)

UConn: 16 (beginning in 1953)

Memphis: 16 (beginning in 1956)



Based on the AP Final 25 rankings, if there is a "blueblood" BB school in the AAC, it is Cincinnati, not UConn.

Wow! I made a comment that I believe all programs cheat. I believe that that is a fact. Whether its restrictive phone calls or impermissible benefits. Whether its a head coach or asst coach. All you have to do is google it and you would be surprised at all the programs who have got caught cheating just the last 30 years. How does that have anything to do with folks cheating in their marriages? Or kids cheating on exams? Thats a pretty kooky broad stroke of an analogy. You have folks on tv who were involved in the sports world telling us that every program cheats in some way. Dozens and dozens of programs have been investigated and or cited in some way by the ncaa just in the last 5 years. Most of them for some reason get very little notoriety.
09-13-2020 07:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 16,814
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 646
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #107
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
With respects to cheating, all the schools cheat. Some get away with it because they are too big to fail; others are unduly punished to keep them from climbing.
09-13-2020 08:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 43,431
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 1577
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #108
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-09-2020 08:13 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 04:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 12:13 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:  Here's the deal:

Being considered a Power conference has to do with the power in your conference, current & historic.

When people mention the Big 10, you think of Ohio State, Penn State, & Michigan's football teams, & Michigan State, OSU, & Indiana's runs in basketball.

When you think of the ACC, you think of Florida State, Clemson, & Miami's runs as football powers, & UNC & Duke's historic success in basketball.

When you think of the Big 12, you think of Texas & Oklahoma's football teams, & Kansas & Texas' basketball teams.

The SEC: Bama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, & Auburn's football teams, & Kentucky & Florida's basketball teams.

The PAC-12: USC & Oregon in football, & UCLA & Arizona in basketball.

But who in the AAC is viewed or has been viewed as a power in the major sports?

You had UConn with their four national titles for basketball, but outside of a couple hot seasons in the last few years by individual teams like UCF & Houston, who has done enough to be considered a power in one of the major sports?

I would argue no one, though there certainly are teams that might could fit into a power conference as a mid- to lower-tier team.

I look forward to seeing which AAC team will show up hot each year in football & basketball, but honestly, none are powers in those sports, & so the conference can never be heralded as a power conference until there is at minimum of one or two in each major sport that can be, or have been considered, a power.

In football, I agree. No one of the AAC is even close to the equal of Oregon or Tennessee.

But in basketball? There's 3 truly elite programs that sit just outside the top-6 all time (Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, UCLA, UNC, Duke). In recent years they've performed similarly to the top PAC teams, and better overall than any SEC program outside Kentucky.

Memphis is regularly top-10 in attendance, and has a recent Final-Four.

Wichita has been consistently ranked for the past 8 years, other than 2018-19. They've sold out every game since 2004 in a 10,000 seat arena, and have a recent Final-Four.

Cincinnati is a top-15 all time program by almost every measure, and has been consistently ranked for the past 9 years. They've had 3 1st team All-Americans in the 2000s, including the consensus Player of the Year in 2000.

Why don't you give us some of those measures? Realistically, they don't seem to have done much since Big O left. 5 final 4s in a row was pretty impressive, so it gets them up on some lists, but they need more than just that.

UC won two national championships after the Big O left.

Alright, haven't done much since the players who played with Big O left.
09-13-2020 08:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 43,431
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 1577
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #109
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I’m extremely jaded, but IMHO there has been a long standard bias against the urban public schools rooted in the MVC and Metro Conference, particularly Louisville, UC, Memphis and Houston. The urban metros in the MWC like Boise and Fresno State don’t get nearly the flack and are championed as the underdog. Schools like UC are constantly told they are second class citizens, but then never get the “lovable underdog” support.
Fresno and Boise aren't large metros like Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston. San Diego St. and UNLV would be better comparisons.
09-13-2020 08:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.