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The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
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colohank Offline
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Post: #81
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-10-2020 01:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 11:38 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.


Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn was, as of their time of departure, still the biggest overall brand in the AAC. Cincinnati was just not on their level as an overall brand.

I wasn't referring to UConn's "brand."

Now that you've mentioned it though, their reputation was abysmal when they announced their departure, to such an extent that they even became a laughing stock on the conference message boards.

Why?

1) Because their FB program was the worst in the conference, even worse than ECU's.

2) Because their MBB program was found guilty of committing NCAA recruiting violations not only once, but over and over for the past two decades. All of UConn's championships during that era were due to cheating. The University was disgraced, and it was a disgrace to have UConn in the AAC.

But that wasn't the point. "Brand" is irrelevant to the conversation between Bill and I, which was about which school's departure would be more devastating to the conference.

UConn had a very poor FB team and a very mediocre basketball team the past few seasons. In contrast, Cincy has had a very good FB team in several AAC seasons, and has one of the top FB programs in the conference. In addition, Cincy has had one for the top BB programs in the conference.

Losing UConn doesn't put much of a dent in the conference's stature. Losing Cincy would be absolutely devastating in both FB and MBB.

No. By definition, the AAC doesn't have any truly valuable programs, so the loss of any one of them doesn't put much of a dent in the AAC's place in the firmament.

If Cincy were to disappear tomorrow, it wouldn't change the AAC's status, or its media deal.

I hope we get to test that assumption one of these days.
09-10-2020 04:16 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #82
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
Meanwhile, back to the OP...the AAC has a football season to play with a decent shot for multiple teams to finish in the Final AP and to nab the NY6 bowl slot for the 4th year in a row and 5 out of 7 overall.

2014 Boise St
2015 Houston
2016 Western Michigan
2017 Central Florida
2018 Central Florida
2019 Memphis
2020 AAC???

The AAC also has the best [only] chance to get to the CFP this season. Not too shabby for a conference that's in its seventh year of existence.
09-10-2020 10:41 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #83
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-10-2020 10:41 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Meanwhile, back to the OP...the AAC has a football season to play with a decent shot for multiple teams to finish in the Final AP and to nab the NY6 bowl slot for the 4th year in a row and 5 out of 7 overall.

2014 Boise St
2015 Houston
2016 Western Michigan
2017 Central Florida
2018 Central Florida
2019 Memphis
2020 AAC???

The AAC also has the best [only] chance to get to the CFP this season. Not too shabby for a conference that's in its seventh year of existence.

AAC, aka CUSA 1.0 + 20 years.
09-11-2020 12:46 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #84
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-10-2020 10:41 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Meanwhile, back to the OP...the AAC has a football season to play with a decent shot for multiple teams to finish in the Final AP and to nab the NY6 bowl slot for the 4th year in a row and 5 out of 7 overall.

2014 Boise St
2015 Houston
2016 Western Michigan
2017 Central Florida
2018 Central Florida
2019 Memphis
2020 AAC???

The AAC also has the best [only] chance to get to the CFP this season. Not too shabby for a conference that's in its seventh year of existence.

Well, given that its main G5 competition is out, that wouldn't prove very much this year.

07-coffee3
09-11-2020 07:03 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #85
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
While I think the AAC should be P6, BE to AAC is kind of apples oranges thing. 8 football schools vs 12.
09-11-2020 07:49 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #86
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-10-2020 10:41 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Meanwhile, back to the OP...the AAC has a football season to play with a decent shot for multiple teams to finish in the Final AP and to nab the NY6 bowl slot for the 4th year in a row and 5 out of 7 overall.

2014 Boise St
2015 Houston
2016 Western Michigan
2017 Central Florida
2018 Central Florida
2019 Memphis
2020 AAC???

The AAC also has the best [only] chance to get to the CFP this season. Not too shabby for a conference that's in its seventh year of existence.


To be fair, the Mountain West is not playing. And don't rule out AppState for a NY6 bid.

This is not a guarantee for the AAC but I hope the league gets the NY6 bid.
09-11-2020 08:27 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #87
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers
09-11-2020 09:18 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #88
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.
09-11-2020 11:15 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #89
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood. Additionally, UConn represented the Big East in the BCS. No one anticipated that Connecticut would not perform. It happens. If Connecticut football and basketball performed better, chances are the school would still be in the AAC.

UConn athletics spent a lot of money. The athletic department went into severe debt. The state and university called the athletic department out. The athletic department panicked and sold the return to the Big East as their answer.

The Huskies held out hopes that their performance in the AAC would interest the ACC, Big Ten, or Big XII. Unfortunately for the school, the stars didn't align.
09-11-2020 11:28 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #90
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.


Some very fair points, cuseroc. But when you write "todays AAC and their fans," ... just remember there are various posters on this board who root for AAC schools and who take a reasonable, fair and honest approach to this. So I would politely modify your sentence to read: "todays AAC and some of their fans." If you feel it is "many" of their fans, so be it. But to lump all of us AAC fans into one group without a qualifier ... I must take exception. No big deal. Just wanted to note that. I enjoy reading your posts.
09-11-2020 11:52 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #91
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I don't really remember the MWC fans of almost 20 years ago. I have trouble remembering last week for that matter. I think you have to be careful about generalizing that a fanbase of a conference acts or thinks in a certain way. Especially on a sports message board filled with keyboard warriors. There's cocky, obnoxious fans in any league. All I'm saying is that not every AAC fan beats their chest and feels ready to take on the world of college football. Most know our place as still on the outside, looking in for the big media money and prestige. That doesn't mean we can't feel good about how far we've come in 7 years as a conference and that we still have an upside to what can be achieved.
09-11-2020 11:54 AM
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Post: #92
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 11:54 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I don't really remember the MWC fans of almost 20 years ago. I have trouble remembering last week for that matter. I think you have to be careful about generalizing that a fanbase of a conference acts or thinks in a certain way. Especially on a sports message board filled with keyboard warriors. There's cocky, obnoxious fans in any league. All I'm saying is that not every AAC fan beats their chest and feels ready to take on the world of college football. Most know our place as still on the outside, looking in for the big media money and prestige. That doesn't mean we can't feel good about how far we've come in 7 years as a conference and that we still have an upside to what can be achieved.

OK. You and Bill Dazzle are correct. I shouldnt lump all your fans together. Many AAC fans are great posters here. The same for the MWC fans back in the day. My apologies. Thank you two for bringing that to my attention.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2020 12:08 PM by cuseroc.)
09-11-2020 12:05 PM
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Post: #93
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I’m extremely jaded, but IMHO there has been a long standard bias against the urban public schools rooted in the MVC and Metro Conference, particularly Louisville, UC, Memphis and Houston. The urban metros in the MWC like Boise and Fresno State don’t get nearly the flack and are championed as the underdog. Schools like UC are constantly told they are second class citizens, but then never get the “lovable underdog” support.
09-11-2020 12:20 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #94
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.
09-11-2020 12:22 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #95
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

My beliefs are that all the schools cheat at some point and time whether its football or bb and even the non revenue sports to a lessor degree, maybe. The schools that keep getting caught are just bad at cheating.
09-11-2020 12:43 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #96
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:05 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:54 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I don't really remember the MWC fans of almost 20 years ago. I have trouble remembering last week for that matter. I think you have to be careful about generalizing that a fanbase of a conference acts or thinks in a certain way. Especially on a sports message board filled with keyboard warriors. There's cocky, obnoxious fans in any league. All I'm saying is that not every AAC fan beats their chest and feels ready to take on the world of college football. Most know our place as still on the outside, looking in for the big media money and prestige. That doesn't mean we can't feel good about how far we've come in 7 years as a conference and that we still have an upside to what can be achieved.

OK. You and Bill Dazzle are correct. I shouldnt lump all your fans together. Many AAC fans are great posters here. The same for the MWC fans back in the day. My apologies. Thank you two for bringing that to my attention.


04-cheers
09-11-2020 01:09 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #97
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:28 AM)chess Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 08:06 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 08:15 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  ...quite frankly — and admittedly I'm biased because I root for the Bearcats — losing Cincinnati because of its one-two hoops/football punch and its very respectable academics (med school and strong endowment, for examples) would have been worse for the American than having lost UConn.

You're not biased in this statement. You're 100% correct.

Losing Cincy would have been 10 times worse for the conference than losing UConn.

UConn FB actually detracted from the conference since 2015, and the only reason why they became "elite" in MBB was because they repeatedly and wantonly violated the NCAA recruiting rules, until they got caught.

Let's be fair, though. UConn is a modern basketball blue-blood.

You've made it clear that it doesn't matter a whit to you that UConn only achieved their so-called "blueblood" status by cheating.

That's your view, and you're entitled to your opinion, but if schools are just going to get away with cheating, and are still going to be considered admirable "blue bloods," then college sports is not worth watching, in my view.

FWIW, I don't think most regard UConn basketball as "blue blood". They are "nouveaux riche", new money. Like Bill Gates. Blue bloods are Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCLA and Indiana. Like FSU and Miami aren't blue bloods in football either.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2020 01:15 PM by quo vadis.)
09-11-2020 01:14 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #98
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I’m extremely jaded, but IMHO there has been a long standard bias against the urban public schools rooted in the MVC and Metro Conference, particularly Louisville, UC, Memphis and Houston. The urban metros in the MWC like Boise and Fresno State don’t get nearly the flack and are championed as the underdog. Schools like UC are constantly told they are second class citizens, but then never get the “lovable underdog” support.


There is some validity to this argument, C-Ave. By the late 1970s, I was watching lots of Metro hoops on TV. I would talk to my white and black friends in high school at the time about how I liked the Memphis Tigers (for family reasons) and even, to a degree, the Cincinnati Bearcats and Louisville Cardinals (this was before my family members associated with those two schools). The white kids and black kids reacted very differently to me. The white fans (mainly Tennessee Vol fans) strongly disliked UL, UC and what was then Memphis State and the cities in which those three schools are located. In contrast, the black kids (mainly Tennessee State University and pro sports fans) liked the trio of schools and cities. There clearly was a "demographic dynamic" at that time — and that bias you note that remains to this day is, at least an extent, rooted in racial considerations.

I would hope things have improved a good bit at this point. Of note, I even see some of this bias from TV broadcasters (both black and white). The black analysts and commentators overwhelmingly like the Memphis Tigers. Many of their white counterparts ... not as much.

We are all human and have are biases. Myself included.
09-11-2020 01:21 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #99
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-11-2020 01:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I’m extremely jaded, but IMHO there has been a long standard bias against the urban public schools rooted in the MVC and Metro Conference, particularly Louisville, UC, Memphis and Houston. The urban metros in the MWC like Boise and Fresno State don’t get nearly the flack and are championed as the underdog. Schools like UC are constantly told they are second class citizens, but then never get the “lovable underdog” support.


There is some validity to this argument, C-Ave. By the late 1970s, I was watching lots of Metro hoops on TV. I would talk to my white and black friends in high school at the time about how I liked the Memphis Tigers (for family reasons) and even, to a degree, the Cincinnati Bearcats and Louisville Cardinals (this was before my family members associated with those two schools). The white kids and black kids reacted very differently to me. The white fans (mainly Tennessee Vol fans) strongly disliked UL, UC and what was then Memphis State and the cities in which those three schools are located. In contrast, the black kids (mainly Tennessee State University and pro sports fans) liked the trio of schools and cities. There clearly was a "demographic dynamic" at that time — and that bias you note that remains to this day is, at least an extent, rooted in racial considerations.

I would hope things have improved a good bit at this point. Of note, I even see some of this bias from TV broadcasters (both black and white). The black analysts and commentators overwhelmingly like the Memphis Tigers. Many of their white counterparts ... not as much.

We are all human and have are biases. Myself included.

Interesting discussion, Bill.

In a lot of ways, the force that has driven the strong ratings for NCAA basketball since the 1960s has been the theme of the underdogs rising up to challenge the bluebloods.

Examples of the underdog/overachievers that made college basketball so exciting in the 1970s and 1980s were the Marquette Warriors, coached by the great Al McGuire in the early 1970s and the Detroit Titans, coached by Dick Vitale in the late 1970s. In the 1980s and 1990s, the Temple Owls were among the pre-eminent underdog/overachievers. In the 21st century, Gregg Marshall's WSU Shockers fulfilled that role.

There are many other examples, but very often, the underdog/overachievers had a large contingent of African-American players. Thus, the upward mobility of college basketball reflected the increasing visibility of African-Americans in athletics and in television, more broadly. A perfect illustration of the American dream in action.
09-12-2020 10:35 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #100
RE: The AAC has had more AP Top 25 FB teams than some Power conferences have had.
(09-12-2020 10:35 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 01:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 11:15 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 09:18 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  If we're going to be critical of less competition for postseason play then please make sure you apply that criticism across the board to all of the remaining conferences. For some the AAC can never be seen in a positive light LOL. The red headed, coke bottle glasses wearing stepchild of the college football family LOL. It's all good gents. Obviously, COVID has made this a weird season but I'm thankful my Bearcats and our league is able to play and hopefully finish with some high visibility success. 04-cheers

Remember when the MWC had BYU, Utah and TCU? Remember the constant chirping from their fans about them being better than the BE, and how they constantly bragged about being the best non BCS conference? They drove all the other conference fans crazy about how great they were. Most other conference fans, bcs and non bcs respected that league for their accomplishments on the field but were weary of them constantly telling everyone how great they were. No one treated the MWC as a red headed stepchild. Their fans felt that way because no one agreed with them about deserving to be part of the BCS. There is a hugely striking resemblance between the MWC of the early 2000's and todays AAC and their fans.

I’m extremely jaded, but IMHO there has been a long standard bias against the urban public schools rooted in the MVC and Metro Conference, particularly Louisville, UC, Memphis and Houston. The urban metros in the MWC like Boise and Fresno State don’t get nearly the flack and are championed as the underdog. Schools like UC are constantly told they are second class citizens, but then never get the “lovable underdog” support.


There is some validity to this argument, C-Ave. By the late 1970s, I was watching lots of Metro hoops on TV. I would talk to my white and black friends in high school at the time about how I liked the Memphis Tigers (for family reasons) and even, to a degree, the Cincinnati Bearcats and Louisville Cardinals (this was before my family members associated with those two schools). The white kids and black kids reacted very differently to me. The white fans (mainly Tennessee Vol fans) strongly disliked UL, UC and what was then Memphis State and the cities in which those three schools are located. In contrast, the black kids (mainly Tennessee State University and pro sports fans) liked the trio of schools and cities. There clearly was a "demographic dynamic" at that time — and that bias you note that remains to this day is, at least an extent, rooted in racial considerations.

I would hope things have improved a good bit at this point. Of note, I even see some of this bias from TV broadcasters (both black and white). The black analysts and commentators overwhelmingly like the Memphis Tigers. Many of their white counterparts ... not as much.

We are all human and have are biases. Myself included.

Interesting discussion, Bill.

In a lot of ways, the force that has driven the strong ratings for NCAA basketball since the 1960s has been the theme of the underdogs rising up to challenge the bluebloods.

Examples of the underdog/overachievers that made college basketball so exciting in the 1970s and 1980s were the Marquette Warriors, coached by the great Al McGuire in the early 1970s and the Detroit Titans, coached by Dick Vitale in the late 1970s. In the 1980s and 1990s, the Temple Owls were among the pre-eminent underdog/overachievers. In the 21st century, Gregg Marshall's WSU Shockers fulfilled that role.

There are many other examples, but very often, the underdog/overachievers had a large contingent of African-American players. Thus, the upward mobility of college basketball reflected the increasing visibility of African-Americans in athletics and in television, more broadly. A perfect illustration of the American dream in action.


Excellent points, Jed.

That Marquette championship team coached by McGuire was strong.

The 1970s saw the emergence of many men's college hoops programs at universities located in cities (both public and private schools) feature as many African-American players (sometimes up to eight or so) as not. Conversely, and I recall this well, lots of large public universities during that decade had men's programs with no more than four or five Black players.

As I see it, the "city college programs" have never been (in a general sense) as fully respected or understood by the average fan of a state university men's hoops program. There are various explanations for this — some legit and others not. On a positive note, that dynamic has soften a bit.

Years ago, I spent some time on the Indiana University campus when my brother attended for six years. During those visits, I talked to some of his friends who were big college hoops fans. Generally speaking, they respected and related to, for example, the Kentuckys, Michigans and North Carolinas more so than they did, for example, the Marquettes, Syracuses and Louisvilles.
09-12-2020 10:56 AM
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