The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(09-15-2020 03:01 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 02:52 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  I'm not sure why you don't see how political this issue has become. It has basically aligned with the COVID-19 issue. I am trying hard to understand all POVs regarding COVID-19 but it is hard when every related issue goes the same way and people have to pick sides. I dont really care if our decision was right or wrong. It is done and we have to live with it. Why have regret?

I get that it has become politicized, but we knew it would be.

You're right that what's done is done, but if our peers are able to pull off a season, I am curious as to what our long-term financial impacts of our decision will be. Frankly, in my mind, that's what is going to determine whether or not it was the right decision. I don't suspect we'll ever see those numbers, but there will be an impact.

For others, I think watching Marshall play on national tv this Saturday will be enough to say that we made the wrong decision. I don't necessarily agree, but I see their point.

ODU Football ain't Marshall Football or App St Football. We don't have the brand either has in CFB yet. We would most likely not have a game on network TV. We could do better than Facebook and ESPN+ probably which would be great but there's a reason this game was picked. And that reason is BYU had to cancel due to Covid.

I think is very reasonable to ask why our admins felt that ODU could not align with their peers. Do they think they are smarter than the rest? Are they more altruistic? Are they worse off financially than the rest of CUSA? Was there political pressure for them to cancel like Michigan and MSU? We don't have those answers because our media sucks, and our admin is not the least transparent, so people will speculate. I don't think the question is inherently political. It is pretty safe to assume that most college presidents are on the left, but have still decided they want to play football.

If I was a recruit, I would be looking at which schools are playing football and which are not. If a school was playing, I would think that this is a school that takes football seriously and I'd be more inclined to play for them. This might not hurt the Ohio States of the world, but for a middling program like ODU, this is going to kill recruiting.

I agree except on college presidents. Not sure the majority are left leaning. Also, there are other factors than COVID-19 in the play or not play decision. Such as $$.

(09-15-2020 03:24 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  I agree except on college presidents. Not sure the majority are left leaning. Also, there are other factors than COVID-19 in the play or not play decision. Such as $$.

Not the majority... The VAST majority. Probably well over 90%. Something like 98% of all political donations from people employed by colleges and universities go to the Democratic Party.

I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

(09-15-2020 03:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

He says he conducted a survey, but this is just one person's opinion. If he is right,, maybe money is playing an even bigger role in this decision than I thought.

Clearly, IMO, the decision was multi-faceted (and I have no problem with what they did).

In no particular order:

1) HR was under more severe restrictions than CUSA schools in other states, and I don't think it would have been wise to go against Northam's dictum

2) I've had season tickets since Day 1 and I would not have gone to any home games (nor would the people I go with) and sat with XX# of strangers for hours at a time

3) The school had no games that would bring in the revenue necessary to offset financial losses from tickets, parking, concessions, merchandise. The admin might not have specifically said that, but that had to be a factor (and I don't blame them for not saying it). Then toss in the cost of flying to Texas and wherever. A huge money loss.

4) They were worried about the health of players, staff, etc. Given all of the other aspects, I maintain they did the right thing. Harry had a piece today (I think) about Wood meeting with every winter/spring team, especially MBB and WBB, and asking them to sacrifice a good portion of their college life in order to play. I am sure some will, some won't be able to resist the parties, etc. That's a incredibly more difficult request of 100+ players than it is of 15. When I see schools like JMU shutting down and sending kids home because of covid-19 or W&M about to discipline X# of students for violating health policy (including potentially kicking them off campus) and what's happening at other schools everywhere, I think to myself that ODU doesn't need those types of headaches and bad publicity.

I think this coaching staff, with its Penn State roots, will still be able to convince kids, good players, to come to Norfolk.

the decision not to play was very conservative in a non-political sense. Seems ironic supposedly liberal Admins make conservative decisions.

(09-15-2020 03:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

I call a BS flag on the article and the author. He is simply repeating the rhetoric that when one sees someone not lining up with their views they get to crap on that person and call it a public opinion. If most of the universities are very liberal, there wouldn't be schools or colleges opening much less a FB season. This notion of only conservatives want to play and liberals don't is nauseating at the very least because they are driven by various factors unseen by a public eye. In ODU's case in my personal opinion it looks like its mostly due to fiscal reasons than anything else and Broderick and Wood can put any spin on it but if we were making **** loads of money i am sure they can care less about a few players expressing concerns. I could be very wrong but that is what i am thinking.

(09-15-2020 07:08 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 03:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

I call a BS flag on the article and the author. He is simply repeating the rhetoric that when one sees someone not lining up with their views they get to crap on that person and call it a public opinion. If most of the universities are very liberal, there wouldn't be schools or colleges opening much less a FB season. This notion of only conservatives want to play and liberals don't is nauseating at the very least because they are driven by various factors unseen by a public eye. In ODU's case in my personal opinion it looks like its mostly due to fiscal reasons than anything else and Broderick and Wood can put any spin on it but if we were making **** loads of money i am sure they can care less about a few players expressing concerns. I could be very wrong but that is what i am thinking.

I agree with you that the decision at ODU was probably more financial than we’ve been told. I also agree that some liberals want the teams to play and some conservatives don’t. I never said anything to the contrary on either of those items.

However, I promise you, both from anecdotes and the data (numerous studies discussed in the article below), faculty and administrators on university campuses are overwhelmingly left-leaning. Frankly, I couldn’t care less about it, but it’s pretty evident.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017...what-means

(09-15-2020 07:14 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 07:08 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 03:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

I call a BS flag on the article and the author. He is simply repeating the rhetoric that when one sees someone not lining up with their views they get to crap on that person and call it a public opinion. If most of the universities are very liberal, there wouldn't be schools or colleges opening much less a FB season. This notion of only conservatives want to play and liberals don't is nauseating at the very least because they are driven by various factors unseen by a public eye. In ODU's case in my personal opinion it looks like its mostly due to fiscal reasons than anything else and Broderick and Wood can put any spin on it but if we were making **** loads of money i am sure they can care less about a few players expressing concerns. I could be very wrong but that is what i am thinking.

I agree with you that the decision at ODU was probably more financial than we’ve been told. I also agree that some liberals want the teams to play and some conservatives don’t. I never said anything to the contrary on either of those items.

However, I promise you, both from anecdotes and the data (numerous studies discussed in the article below), faculty and administrators on university campuses are overwhelmingly left-leaning. Frankly, I couldn’t care less about it, but it’s pretty evident.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017...what-means

In a general sense i can see how most educated people who claim they are moderately conservative can levitate towards being a true moderate or even a moderately progressive, but i have to disagree that education alone in most cases makes a hard core conservative a hard core liberal so if that was not the case then we have to assume all these administrators and professors are liberal at the roots and are inclined towards the education system for some reason other than money because form what i have seen there are a lot of career paths that will make you **** ton of money than being an associate professor or a professor at any school for that matter. I haven't seen the data but what is collected and when its collected defines the value of the derivatives. The data might be from 100 professors of whom 80 are form a large liberal institution and 20 random professors from elsewhere. I am not saying the data might be manipulated but one has to see the validity of the data from all angles to gleam on the efficacy of the results.

(09-15-2020 07:43 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  In a general sense i can see how most educated people who claim they are moderately conservative can levitate towards being a true moderate or even a moderately progressive.

It is not education, per se, that makes someone more progressive in their political leanings. It is the lack of personal accountability that is pervasively inherent in so many educational institutions that causes that.

Whether it is tenure at the university level, or the near impervious protection afforded by the teacher’s unions at the primary and secondary level, or the arrogant, knee-jerk, circle-the-wagons, group-think response to all forms of outside criticism at every level - - those in education almost never have to answer personally for their own incompetence or misconduct. Crap that would get someone fired in the public sector is virtually always overlooked, and sometimes even celebrated, in the academic world.

Just my opinion.

Quite interestingly, I haven't as yet read anyone give props to these tendencies being partly fueled by enlightenment, good or bad. I hope no one argues the point of why we all seek good education, and just in case you are still wondering, formal education provides us with knowledge some of us would perhaps never attain otherwise. When we learn things that don't come naturally or instinctively to our being, we improve our abilities to deride our conscience of biases that could have been shaped by a number of factors, including individual experiences in life, associations, upbringing, status in life, etc. etc. Generally speaking, the more we learn, the better we get to understanding our human race. Doesn't "good" education force us to learn about things we may not be familiar or comfortable with? Before folks get too riled up, I'm always of the opinion that a significant percentage of people, through no fault of their own, fall into circumstances that feed preconceived biases. Without proper education and exposure, some unfortunately hold on to those biases much too long, until they sometimes turn toxic.
I for one have no issue with our more learned friends, and it leverages my opinion of how I perceive ODU's decision to sit out this year's Fall Sports. I say to ODU administration, bravo, and well done! In today's environment, I wish we had more folks subscribing to the novel idea that education is still a good thing.

(09-15-2020 07:14 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 07:08 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 03:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I don't know if it's 90%, but it is the vast majority.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/201...ty-members

I call a BS flag on the article and the author. He is simply repeating the rhetoric that when one sees someone not lining up with their views they get to crap on that person and call it a public opinion. If most of the universities are very liberal, there wouldn't be schools or colleges opening much less a FB season. This notion of only conservatives want to play and liberals don't is nauseating at the very least because they are driven by various factors unseen by a public eye. In ODU's case in my personal opinion it looks like its mostly due to fiscal reasons than anything else and Broderick and Wood can put any spin on it but if we were making **** loads of money i am sure they can care less about a few players expressing concerns. I could be very wrong but that is what i am thinking.

I agree with you that the decision at ODU was probably more financial than we’ve been told. I also agree that some liberals want the teams to play and some conservatives don’t. I never said anything to the contrary on either of those items.

However, I promise you, both from anecdotes and the data (numerous studies discussed in the article below), faculty and administrators on university campuses are overwhelmingly left-leaning. Frankly, I couldn’t care less about it, but it’s pretty evident.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017...what-means

Maybe that is why so many schools are called Liberal Arts? Colleges for the most part have always been liberal. The market place for liberal ideas. One of which used to be tolerance for differing views. Not sure how well liberals are doing in that area these days. Nothing new about this.

I believe that it came down to CYA and who can blame them for that. IF the season were played AND anything bad happened to a player or coach THEN the ODU decision makers would be publicly responsible. That its a tough decision to be in and I honestly believe that they made the safe call with all the facts at the time (Gov. N shutting down HR, etc.) Just think IF something would have happened how much outgrage would be brought against them....."HR was justly shut down by the Gov. IF you would haved simply followed the guidance XXX would not have happened"

Lots of IFs; however, that was what they were dealing with. Lots of IFs and not many hard truths.

I wish we were playing, but I totally understand why they shut it down this year.

Looks like the brain trusts in the Big 10 and PAC see they made the wrong call. Difference is they did so together and they have the money to reverse course more easily. The poor MAC and MWC aren’t that lucky. At least they can play in the spring as a whole league if they choose to.

(09-15-2020 08:13 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(09-15-2020 07:43 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  In a general sense i can see how most educated people who claim they are moderately conservative can levitate towards being a true moderate or even a moderately progressive.

It is not education, per se, that makes someone more progressive in their political leanings. It is the lack of personal accountability that is pervasively inherent in so many educational institutions that causes that.

Whether it is tenure at the university level, or the near impervious protection afforded by the teacher’s unions at the primary and secondary level, or the arrogant, knee-jerk, circle-the-wagons, group-think response to all forms of outside criticism at every level - - those in education almost never have to answer personally for their own incompetence or misconduct. Crap that would get someone fired in the public sector is virtually always overlooked, and sometimes even celebrated, in the academic world.

Just my opinion.

(09-15-2020 11:11 PM)ziggy1 Wrote:  Quite interestingly, I haven't as yet read anyone give props to these tendencies being partly fueled by enlightenment, good or bad. I hope no one argues the point of why we all seek good education, and just in case you are still wondering, formal education provides us with knowledge some of us would perhaps never attain otherwise. When we learn things that don't come naturally or instinctively to our being, we improve our abilities to deride our conscience of biases that could have been shaped by a number of factors, including individual experiences in life, associations, upbringing, status in life, etc. etc. Generally speaking, the more we learn, the better we get to understanding our human race. Doesn't "good" education force us to learn about things we may not be familiar or comfortable with? Before folks get too riled up, I'm always of the opinion that a significant percentage of people, through no fault of their own, fall into circumstances that feed preconceived biases. Without proper education and exposure, some unfortunately hold on to those biases much too long, until they sometimes turn toxic.
I for one have no issue with our more learned friends, and it leverages my opinion of how I perceive ODU's decision to sit out this year's Fall Sports. I say to ODU administration, bravo, and well done! In today's environment, I wish we had more folks subscribing to the novel idea that education is still a good thing.

That is what i meant by general sense. Education, in more than handful of cases drives the decisions even in some hard core partisan ideals like climate change per say. For example both my neighbors are doctors and both have a very different political view and are usually at the end of the spectrum but they both drive pure EV like Tesla and while i haven't asked them about why they chose that my hunch is their education has a say in why they decided to that. Anyways the point being education definitely alters perspective no matter where you lie in the spectrum and what you believe in otherwise.

(09-16-2020 07:40 AM)monarx Wrote:  Looks like the brain trusts in the Big 10 and PAC see they made the wrong call. Difference is they did so together and they have the money to reverse course more easily. The poor MAC and MWC aren’t that lucky. At least they can play in the spring as a whole league if they choose to.

They definitely have the money to do that. I am not sure why they even chose to not play in the first place and i heard rumors that the commissioner alone pulled that trigger with out consulting the member schools. I don't know what to believe but i am sure a bunch of attorneys were involved before they made the call to play.

(09-15-2020 04:20 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  the decision not to play was very conservative in a non-political sense. Seems ironic supposedly liberal Admins make conservative decisions.

If we cannot agree on something as incontrovertible as the vast majority of people working in higher ed are somewhere between left of center and extreme left, then there is no such thing as fact anymore. We can all just stay in our silos and pretend like reality does not exist unless it serves our purposes.