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Tribeheart Offline
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Post: #41
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Poor W&M Sports Blog made the Instagram blunder of posting the cuts announcement with a football picture. They are getting bludgeoned for it.
09-03-2020 07:44 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #42
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 07:44 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Poor W&M Sports Blog made the Instagram blunder of posting the cuts announcement with a football picture. They are getting bludgeoned for it.
It may go into the thread HOF. Lavender Solatoli or whatever his name is went off the rails then others piled on. Chadwick brothers dug in and now it's an ego battle. This could go 12 rounds.

Cancel WMSB!!!

Bwahahaha

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(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 08:08 PM by Tribal.)
09-03-2020 08:07 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #43
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
This sucks. No two ways about it. I wish they had at least passed the hat around before deciding to cut these programs.

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09-03-2020 08:09 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #44
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:07 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Cancel WMSB!!!

Bwahahaha

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09-03-2020 08:17 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #45
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:09 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  This sucks. No two ways about it. I wish they had at least passed the hat around before deciding to cut these programs.

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I thought the article said they tried to scrounge up donors. Am I wrong?
09-03-2020 08:18 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #46
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Tribeathletics Instagram is under full assault. Current student-athletes & fans are killing Huge on this. Photo from a FB poster.

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(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 08:33 PM by Tribal.)
09-03-2020 08:28 PM
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tribeinexile Offline
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Post: #47
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
This is a dark day for W&M. The gymnastics, swimming and track programs have a long record of success - and more importantly, have brought many outstanding students to the College and improved the caliber of our student body.

That is what has been lost. There are some who seem to be applauding this event as a logical, DESIRABLE decision. It's not. Even if we could turn the $$$ saved into more successful football and men's/wonmen's basketball programs (and we can't because the $$$ are simply going to reduce the deficit) I would not support this move.

However, this may have been a necessary, PAINFUL decision. The College can't run an athletic department with an ongoing, substantial deficit. We are a liberal arts college in an era when the value of liberal arts is being aggressively questioned by our consumers: students and parents. We need to keep "tuition" down and to me that includes the activities fee. So if this is part of a general belt-tightening on the part of the College, I am not sure what the alternatives are.

The danger we run is an athletic program totally disassociated from the student body. (What exactly is the engagement between the football and basketball programs and the general student population?) That is not the W&M way.

I went off on a few tangents there. Sorry. This sucks and I'm still trying to process it.
09-03-2020 08:32 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #48
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:18 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I thought the article said they tried to scrounge up donors. Am I wrong?

No I'm sure they might have but I think they should have publicly run "Save the Insert Team" campaigns. Maybe it would have made no difference but I think alumni have the right to try and intervene to keep programs.

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09-03-2020 08:37 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:37 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 08:18 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I thought the article said they tried to scrounge up donors. Am I wrong?

No I'm sure they might have but I think they should have publicly run "Save the Insert Team" campaigns. Maybe it would have made no difference but I think alumni have the right to try and intervene to keep programs.

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I think if people were paying attention, the writing was on the wall. People interested in donating SHOULD have been aware.

However, if the line is "no sports will be cut" then perhaps potential donors were given the impression that the situation was not as dire as it was. I would've liked to see a public push with a dollar value for each sport that was needed. But maybe that looks like "amateur hour", I'm not sure. I don't really know anything about fundraising strategies.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 09:14 PM by soccerguy315.)
09-03-2020 09:13 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #50
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
I can't speak for others but if I asked I absolutely would have given donations to every sport that was on the chopping block. I'm not rich but the school is in the middle of an extremely successful campaign that asks all alumni to give what they can. I don't know why that strategy wasn't used here.

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09-03-2020 09:26 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #51
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:09 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  This sucks. No two ways about it. I wish they had at least passed the hat around before deciding to cut these programs.

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They did. Based on the letter, they tried pretty much everything, including having other coaches and the AD take pay cuts. They couldn't find anything that was feasible long-term.
09-03-2020 09:28 PM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #52
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:12 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  This is disappointing all around, though admittedly not a surprise at this point. P5 schools were cutting sports left and right, not sure why I had thought we would be immune

Only two Power 5 schools have cut sports.
Iowa (4)
Stanford (11)

Overall, there's been (As of 11 p.m. EDT on 9/3) 351 teams cut or suspended (which really means they're cut).

mattalkonline.com/covidsports (I've been tracking since March 11)

As a Peninsula native who spent many a night bouncing between Paul's and the Green Leafe, this hurts. Already lost our wrestling program at ODU and now this.

One thing that irks me is the AD speak in these releases, mainly pointing to making athletics nationally competitive. This isn't a diss at the Tribe, but outside of FCS football, where else is the national competitiveness that doesn't already exist? The sports being cut, to my mild recollection, carry a ton of the honors.

With the schools around the country in D1 cutting the same type of sports, it's not like W&M putting more money into the sports leftover is going to make the teams more competitive, considering that's what the other teams dropping sports are doing.

One thing that was brought up was scholarships - or lack there of - those kids are paying tuition, which benefits the school. While the "departmental" budget may "save" money, there's a good chance the school actually loses money overall.

Sad day. I always liked the Tribe, even though I went to school on the other side of the water.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 10:11 PM by ODUwildman.)
09-03-2020 10:11 PM
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Rocco Offline
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Post: #53
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:32 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  This is a dark day for W&M. The gymnastics, swimming and track programs have a long record of success - and more importantly, have brought many outstanding students to the College and improved the caliber of our student body.

That is what has been lost. There are some who seem to be applauding this event as a logical, DESIRABLE decision. It's not. Even if we could turn the $$$ saved into more successful football and men's/wonmen's basketball programs (and we can't because the $$$ are simply going to reduce the deficit) I would not support this move.

However, this may have been a necessary, PAINFUL decision. The College can't run an athletic department with an ongoing, substantial deficit. We are a liberal arts college in an era when the value of liberal arts is being aggressively questioned by our consumers: students and parents. We need to keep "tuition" down and to me that includes the activities fee. So if this is part of a general belt-tightening on the part of the College, I am not sure what the alternatives are.

The danger we run is an athletic program totally disassociated from the student body. (What exactly is the engagement between the football and basketball programs and the general student population?) That is not the W&M way.

I went off on a few tangents there. Sorry. This sucks and I'm still trying to process it.

I don't see anything in this thread that amounts to people applauding the move. Your third paragraph is pretty much it. No one wants to add 10k students to bring in more money, so if you aren't going to increase revenues, you have to cut costs. It stinks, of course, but the numbers aren't concerned with feelings.
09-03-2020 10:16 PM
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A Quest Called Tribe Offline
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Post: #54
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Cutting programs is a disgrace, especially seven at once. I understand that decisions are made with the bottom line in mind and eventually the accountants always win. Perhaps this was inevitable and perhaps everyone did their best, but if that was the case then why announce this in September? What were they waiting for? The power ball results?
09-03-2020 10:41 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 10:41 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  Cutting programs is a disgrace, especially seven at once. I understand that decisions are made with the bottom line in mind and eventually the accountants always win. Perhaps this was inevitable and perhaps everyone did their best, but if that was the case then why announce this in September? What were they waiting for? The power ball results?

This is essentially 12 months notice, right?

How much notice do you think is fair to expect? (Not trying to be snarky, genuine question with maybe no easy answer)
09-03-2020 10:50 PM
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Rocco Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 08:37 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 08:18 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I thought the article said they tried to scrounge up donors. Am I wrong?

No I'm sure they might have but I think they should have publicly run "Save the Insert Team" campaigns. Maybe it would have made no difference but I think alumni have the right to try and intervene to keep programs.

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1) When W&M hired a commission to do a study on the athletics department, it should have been a giant warning siren to the non-revenue sports to start lining up donors.

2) The problem with doing a public campaign is it might work, and then the school would be saddled with a program it doesn't want.
09-04-2020 04:58 AM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Reactions from any school that cuts sports are reflected in these ages and remarks.

Screaming and pouting will go on for a brief time, former athletes will object...but the cuts will stay, the decision was
correct and at least the basketball teams will be able to use the court for practice any time they want!
09-04-2020 05:07 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #58
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-04-2020 05:07 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Reactions from any school that cuts sports are reflected in these ages and remarks.

Screaming and pouting will go on for a brief time, former athletes will object...but the cuts will stay, the decision was
correct and at least the basketball teams will be able to use the court for practice any time they want!

Reaction from this alum:

The Labor Day Massacre.

There is now a trust issue with this Administration.

The school community was sold a bill of goods in the recent fund-raising drives.

No one checked with the alumni base about the decision to favor certain sports over other sports. The ramifications of this are staggering.

Go ahead and stand with the Administrators.

I stand with the former and current athletes of the cut sports.
09-04-2020 05:57 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #59
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-04-2020 04:58 AM)Rocco Wrote:  1) When W&M hired a commission to do a study on the athletics department, it should have been a giant warning siren to the non-revenue sports to start lining up donors.

I agree with you, and truth be told, President Sullivan issued that warning during his tenure. I don’t have the information as to how each sport responded. That would be interesting to see.

There is a caveat though, and that concerns the swimming program. Bombs were falling last year, let alone warning sirens, but the Administration, in two written communications, pulled a Baghdad Bob, and said nothing to see here.

I have been associated with W&M since 1976, and played a varsity sport. I have a good sense of what William and Mary used to be about, and what it is becoming. It is becoming something that a large portion of former students (aka alumni and donor base) do not support.

I do not support the Labor Day Massacre.

There were other ways to address the issues. Hiring a commission to do a study, rather than calling a Tribal/family meeting, tells you all that you need to know about the future and direction of W&M sports, and W&M in general.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2020 06:08 AM by nj alum.)
09-04-2020 06:06 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
It’s a helluva thing, when an institution of hiring learning, cuts programs that were models about everything that W&M stands for .... just because of money. Not low GPA’s. Not bad students. Not bad citizens, etc., etc., etc. .... money. Pure and simple. Money.

Let that sink in every time someone associated with W&M sends you something ... Christmas from the Wren .... ties that bind .... Crim Dell in the Fall .... etc, etc, etc. ... pulling at your heart strings.

It’s all an illusion.

There is only one set of strings being pulled, and they belong to your purse.

Money. Money talks. Money walks.

So ...

IMO, there should be an economic boycott of the school until the direction of this ship is forced to change.
09-04-2020 06:24 AM
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