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W&M Cuts 7 Sports
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #21
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
From the Flag:

For those that don't know, I've been a Cross Country/Track & Field athlete for the last 3 years. I've enjoyed getting to cover sports on this account like the 7 that have been cut today. This decision sucks but bad times are where great courage, strength, and resolve emerges

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09-03-2020 03:42 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #22
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:09 PM)Rocco Wrote:  It took a pandemic for W&M to admit the math didn't work.
I'm sorry it took you 6 months to weigh in with a gem like this. Oh how I've missed your love of W&M.

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09-03-2020 03:46 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:30 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  And, don't blame Huge...that would be akin to blaming Trump for the COVID-induced economic despair. Totally unavoidable.

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Yeah, I haven't always been the biggest fan of hers but I agree. Seems like they did this in about as "good" of a way as possible.

Even though there aren't a ton of scholarships here, they're still honoring them. They did try to raise private funds, but weren't able to. The AD and other coaches are also taking paycuts to help with the deficit.
I don't think he means what you think he means...

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09-03-2020 03:49 PM
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tribemike09 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Was surprised not to see golf on the list. Perhaps it's not that costly to maintain.
09-03-2020 03:52 PM
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TDenverFan Online
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Post: #25
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:49 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:30 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  And, don't blame Huge...that would be akin to blaming Trump for the COVID-induced economic despair. Totally unavoidable.

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Yeah, I haven't always been the biggest fan of hers but I agree. Seems like they did this in about as "good" of a way as possible.

Even though there aren't a ton of scholarships here, they're still honoring them. They did try to raise private funds, but weren't able to. The AD and other coaches are also taking paycuts to help with the deficit.
I don't think he means what you think he means...

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Yep, I glanced at Tribal's message and missed the sarcasm
09-03-2020 04:07 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Very sad day for W&M, our teams and their athletes, and college athletics.

It had to come, but still difficult to accept...but the right decision.

Will especially, on a personal note, miss men's track: we've had national champion athletes, Olympians, and many conference champs.
And will miss the wonderful Colonial Relays...sitting in the stands on a warm April afternoon watching 60 or so teams vie in event after event.
09-03-2020 04:12 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
So we had a big Huge fundraiser called For the Bold. We had donations earmarked for specific sports. Great timing. I guess those funds for cut sports just go to pay for football and basketball.

Can't cut golf and tennis. Too many big donars and endowed scholarships. Same with baseball.

Now, here's my big Bold question. Now that we cut our sports teams by seven, when are we going to see a 25% reduction in the Athletic Department staff?

This is a horrible day for student athletes, both current and alumni. I don't think that the upper classmen are back on campus yet so no face to face discussions with the players. Kind of a spineless move IMO.

I hate that we had to do this.
09-03-2020 04:20 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #28
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 04:20 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  So we had a big Huge fundraiser called For the Bold. We had donations earmarked for specific sports. Great timing. I guess those funds for cut sports just go to pay for football and basketball.

Can't cut golf and tennis. Too many big donars and endowed scholarships. Same with baseball.

Now, here's my big Bold question. Now that we cut our sports teams by seven, when are we going to see a 25% reduction in the Athletic Department staff?

This is a horrible day for student athletes, both current and alumni. I don't think that the upper classmen are back on campus yet so no face to face discussions with the players. Kind of a spineless move IMO.

I hate that we had to do this.
Did you read the open letter or just the headline to this thread? I thought most of the answers to your questions are in the letter.

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09-03-2020 04:29 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 04:12 PM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Very sad day for W&M, our teams and their athletes, and college athletics.

It had to come, but still difficult to accept...but the right decision.

Will especially, on a personal note, miss men's track: we've had national champion athletes, Olympians, and many conference champs.
And will miss the wonderful Colonial Relays...sitting in the stands on a warm April afternoon watching 60 or so teams vie in event after event.
Do we know for sure that Colonial Relays are ending? Women's track is still a sport, so we could conceivably still have Relays, even if we don't compete in men's.

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09-03-2020 04:32 PM
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WMTRIBE75 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 04:07 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:49 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:30 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  And, don't blame Huge...that would be akin to blaming Trump for the COVID-induced economic despair. Totally unavoidable.

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Yeah, I haven't always been the biggest fan of hers but I agree. Seems like they did this in about as "good" of a way as possible.

Even though there aren't a ton of scholarships here, they're still honoring them. They did try to raise private funds, but weren't able to. The AD and other coaches are also taking paycuts to help with the deficit.
I don't think he means what you think he means...

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Yep, I glanced at Tribal's message and missed the sarcasm

Guess that is what I get for reading Tribal's comment through my own set of eyes. I did not think that he was being sarcastic.
09-03-2020 04:34 PM
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Rocco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:46 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 03:09 PM)Rocco Wrote:  It took a pandemic for W&M to admit the math didn't work.
I'm sorry it took you 6 months to weigh in with a gem like this. Oh how I've missed your love of W&M.

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I've written similar sentiments before. You must have missed them. The writing's been on the wall.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-873018-post-15...id15993048

https://csnbbs.com/thread-829566-post-14...id14664803

https://csnbbs.com/thread-821619-post-14...id14440854

https://csnbbs.com/thread-819869-post-14...id14393378

If you want to have a serious discussion I'm here. Otherwise, I have better things to do.
09-03-2020 05:08 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #32
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Ok, go do them. See ya in 6 months

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09-03-2020 05:14 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #33
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 04:20 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  ..... Now, here's my big Bold question. Now that we cut our sports teams by seven, when are we going to see a 25% reduction in the Athletic Department staff? ....

Various thoughts, some in concert with previous comments:

-- I knew this had to be coming soon when I read that Stanford dropped about 7 or so sports. If a super-rich P5 school can drop sports then it would be easier for W&M to justify (and Huge apparently has professional ties to people at Stanford; useful for consulting).

-- The timing of it. 4:00 on Thursday. I'm surprised that it wasn't 4:00 on the Friday before the Labor Day weekend. Maybe the powers that be wanted to be off on Friday, and so they did it today. Also, if they were sincere about helping the (limited) number of scholarship athletes to successfully transfer, then why didn't they announce this a month ago to enable them to transfer BEFORE the academic school year started?

-- They said the decision was "final". Of course, if every alum (especially the big money donors) called to complain and threatened to pull all current and future donations -- then I surmise that the decision might not be quite as final as they say.

-- I agree with the question about Men's and Women's Golf. Those programs make no money and don't even win. At least Men's and Women's Swimming win CAA championships, and Men's Gymnastics has always been very competitive. I have heard for many years that the Gymnastics teams are fully funded from endowments (dating from the 1980's, which was when several other sports were cut at W&M). I think the Athletic Department covered themselves on that count by including this statement in their list of things that they took into account: "Number of competing programs in the mid-Atlantic region'. There are only about 21 or 23 schools that compete in gymnastics nationwide -- and Navy (and maybe Penn State?) are the only ones that come immediately to mind in our region. But so what?; it has always been that way and how is that a reason for abolishing a self-sustaining program? Another one of those things supposedly taken into account was "proven success". Well, for Gymnastics and Swimming, that was a box that was certainly checked off.

-- Another one of the things supposedly taken into account was "building community". This announcement does not build community, it tears down community. A course that Huge has wanted to take for several years and which she realized that the pandemic gave her the perfect cover for it.

-- Lastly, re the $3.2M deficit cited for '20-'21: how much of that deficit is tied to the $3.1M that W&M is paying Tony Shaver not to coach?
09-03-2020 05:18 PM
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Tribeheart Offline
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Post: #34
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
For all of us who have been through employment downsizing or going out of business, it is a tough life lesson/experience for these kids. Honoring any limited scholarships after this year is in reality very generous, considering the tip of the iceburg, economic impact that Covid is having on higher education. Those depending on any scholarship money are fortunate to have that security blanket. We can only hope that W&M is able to weather and evolve in this educational institution environment in relatively good shape. I imagine this may cause student activism regarding student athletic fees and football to raise it's head again, whether warranted or not. Push back will be inevitable, especially in this period of activism and Covid pent up energy.
09-03-2020 05:53 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #35
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Facebook responses to W&M Athletics' post is worth the cuts. Comedy gold.

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09-03-2020 05:58 PM
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Tribeheart Offline
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Post: #36
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 03:42 PM)Tribal Wrote:  From the Flag:

For those that don't know, I've been a Cross Country/Track & Field athlete for the last 3 years. I've enjoyed getting to cover sports on this account like the 7 that have been cut today. This decision sucks but bad times are where great courage, strength, and resolve emerges

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+1
09-03-2020 06:30 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 04:29 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 04:20 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  So we had a big Huge fundraiser called For the Bold. We had donations earmarked for specific sports. Great timing. I guess those funds for cut sports just go to pay for football and basketball.

Can't cut golf and tennis. Too many big donars and endowed scholarships. Same with baseball.

Now, here's my big Bold question. Now that we cut our sports teams by seven, when are we going to see a 25% reduction in the Athletic Department staff?

This is a horrible day for student athletes, both current and alumni. I don't think that the upper classmen are back on campus yet so no face to face discussions with the players. Kind of a spineless move IMO.

I hate that we had to do this.
Did you read the open letter or just the headline to this thread? I thought most of the answers to your questions are in the letter.

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Of course I read it. Every word. Not sure what you are implying. Please let me know. The only question I asked is whether we see corresponding cuts in the athletice department, and not one time cuts. That's a fair question IMO.
09-03-2020 06:42 PM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #38
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 05:58 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Facebook responses to W&M Athletics' post is worth the cuts. Comedy gold.

You ain't kidding. Understandable disappointment from those effected and it serves as a good spot for venting. I get it, Emotions are high. Most of these people have no idea how these athletic budgets are put together or the actual overhead for each of these sports. Eliminating the "disappointing" football & basketball programs won't save the 7 sports that are the "backbones" of the college. A lot of talk about taking money from these other sports or from construction in other parts of the university, with no understanding that the money was allotted and donated for specific programs. You can't do it. Talk of with these sports eliminated, the athletics department GPA will take a nose dive. I took that as a veiled jab at the bball and football programs.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 07:17 PM by mrjoolius.)
09-03-2020 07:14 PM
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soccerguy315 Online
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Post: #39
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(09-03-2020 05:53 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  For all of us who have been through employment downsizing or going out of business, it is a tough life lesson/experience for these kids. Honoring any limited scholarships after this year is in reality very generous, considering the tip of the iceburg, economic impact that Covid is having on higher education. Those depending on any scholarship money are fortunate to have that security blanket. We can only hope that W&M is able to weather and evolve in this educational institution environment in relatively good shape. I imagine this may cause student activism regarding student athletic fees and football to raise it's head again, whether warranted or not. Push back will be inevitable, especially in this period of activism and Covid pent up energy.

It is probably a fair question for the students to ask whether if they are paying $X for Y sports, if Y shrinks, should $X also shrink?
09-03-2020 07:34 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #40
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Very fair question. There has been a massive increase in staffing positions in the AD's office over the past few years. Last I counted, over 50 employees not associated with a specific team (so, not coaches, assistants, or team staffers). 10 of which are ADs, Associate ADs, Assistant ADs, etc.

If you're going to cut programs, cut staffers. That seems most reasonable.

Unfortunately, the outcry is already monumental. Kiss a whole lot of donors goodbye. This is a painful time, for sure.

My position is, we had too many programs and cuts probably needed to happen. I think it's terrible to have done this a week into the school year AFTER those dozens & dozens of non-scholarship student-athletes already signed their checks. Now, they get to deal with COVID-19, virtual classes, a poor social life in college, and no longer participating in the sport they love at W&M.



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09-03-2020 07:35 PM
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