(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?

The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?

The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?

When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.

Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?

The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?

When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.

Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.

See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

(04-21-2021 07:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?

The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?

When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.

Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.

See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

I would have preferred you comment on germane issues --- ie like the bulk of my post. Perhaps you can do that instead of two posts filled wholly with snark.

(04-21-2021 07:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?
The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?
When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.
Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.
Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.
See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

As an attorney, Tanq is simply asking the legal questions that need to be asked, in his own inimitable style, of course. This was a trial that, like most high-profile murder trials, was decided more on emotion than on facts or law. I expect this result to get appealed as high as it takes to get reversed on at least the murder parts. I would expect the manslaughter conviction to stick, because it fits the facts as I understand them.

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Actually, for most prosecutors it's a bit more nuanced than that.

First, make the jury hate the perp. Then, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Sometimes, even that's not enough. I think the jury hated George Zimmerman, for example, and I think he killed Trayvon Martin. But there was simply no evidence put forth to support a conviction, primarily because the only living person who could provide such evidence could not be compelled to testify.

(04-21-2021 07:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Actually, for most prosecutors it's a bit more nuanced than that.

First, make the jury hate the perp. Then, go for the mudsplatter technique.

Sometimes, even that's not enough. I think the jury hated George Zimmerman, for example, and I think he killed Trayvon Martin. But there was simply no evidence put forth to support a conviction, primarily because the only living person who could provide such evidence could not be compelled to testify.

In this case they didn't have to do that first step.

During voir dire, not a single seated juror could express even a neutral outlook on Chauvin. Every single juror had a predisposed mildly negative to highly negative outlook on him.

Just look at the voir dire transcripts to that exact question/answer if you have any doubt.

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

Bingo.


The sentencing guidelines call for 12.5 years, not the 40 years maximum the press has been ballyhooing. It will be interesting to see the reaction if the guidelines are followed.

(04-21-2021 07:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:50 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  I am very surprised no one is discussing the verdict here.

Lol - are you?
The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?
When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.
Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.
Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.
See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

As an attorney, Tanq is simply asking the legal questions that need to be asked, in his own inimitable style, of course. This was a trial that, like most high-profile murder trials, was decided more on emotion than on facts or law. I expect this result to get appealed as high as it takes to get reversed on at least the murder parts. I would expect the manslaughter conviction to stick, because it fits the facts as I understand them.

I thought manslaughter was appropriate. The police have a duty to protect citizens from harm even as they arrest them. Chauvin was IMO negligent.

I also think the threats of violence had an effect on the jury.

I guess this will just strengthen the narrative that every black person killed by a cop is murdered. But we will see.

(04-21-2021 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 06:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Lol - are you?
The results don’t fit the narrative that drive the current posting atmosphere on the Quad.

Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?
When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.
Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.
Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.
See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

As an attorney, Tanq is simply asking the legal questions that need to be asked, in his own inimitable style, of course. This was a trial that, like most high-profile murder trials, was decided more on emotion than on facts or law. I expect this result to get appealed as high as it takes to get reversed on at least the murder parts. I would expect the manslaughter conviction to stick, because it fits the facts as I understand them.

I thought manslaughter was appropriate. The police have a duty to protect citizens from harm even as they arrest them. Chauvin was IMO negligent.

I also think the threats of violence had an effect on the jury.

I guess this will just strengthen the narrative that every black person killed by a cop is murdered. But we will see.

What actions or inaction of Chauvin exhibited negligence?

(04-21-2021 01:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 07:06 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Which particular one of the 4 modes of causation of death put forward by the prosecution do you all think was the true causation?
When in doubt, go for the mudsplatter technique.
Sure glad to know that Floyd was such an ox that 3-4x a lethal dose of fetynal had little bearing, let alone a 90% occluded major heart artery, a massively enlarged heart that could pop at anytime, and the enormously massive struggle he engaged with four officers for twenty minutes to keep from being arrested.
Perhaps lad, if you want to snark on the issues here, it might behoove you to actually interact instead of apparently in this case throwing rocks from the side.

I pop my head out for one post and Tanq goes nuclear. OO posts multiple troll articles per day trying to stir the pot and Tanq is silent.
See Interested - this is what I was talking about.

As an attorney, Tanq is simply asking the legal questions that need to be asked, in his own inimitable style, of course. This was a trial that, like most high-profile murder trials, was decided more on emotion than on facts or law. I expect this result to get appealed as high as it takes to get reversed on at least the murder parts. I would expect the manslaughter conviction to stick, because it fits the facts as I understand them.

I thought manslaughter was appropriate. The police have a duty to protect citizens from harm even as they arrest them. Chauvin was IMO negligent.

I also think the threats of violence had an effect on the jury.

I guess this will just strengthen the narrative that every black person killed by a cop is murdered. But we will see.

What actions or inaction of Chauvin exhibited negligence?

In my mind, not lifting his knee sooner.

So everything for the first time X in the 9 mins 9 secs was hunky dory, then everything else past that balance, if I read you correctly?

What is that time X?

By the way, are you aware the state'es own witnesses precluded the ' knee on the neck'? And the state post that issue had to change gheir references of the 'knee on the neck to 'knee on the AREA AROUND THE neck '?

(04-21-2021 03:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So everything for the first time X in the 9 mins 9 secs was hunky dory, then everything else past that balance, if I read you correctly?

What is that time X?

By the way, are you aware the state'es own witnesses precluded the ' knee on the neck'? And the state post that issue had to change gheir references of the 'knee on the neck to 'knee on the AREA AROUND THE neck '?

You talking to me, Tanq? I am not versed in the law, but it seems to me that Chauvin was too slow in removing his knee. I could not give you a precise time - I think it would go more to a determination of when it was no longer needed. But I am the type of guy who, if on the jury, would need a good explanation of the law.

(04-21-2021 03:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 03:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So everything for the first time X in the 9 mins 9 secs was hunky dory, then everything else past that balance, if I read you correctly?

What is that time X?

By the way, are you aware the state'es own witnesses precluded the ' knee on the neck'? And the state post that issue had to change gheir references of the 'knee on the neck to 'knee on the AREA AROUND THE neck '?

You talking to me, Tanq? I am not versed in the law, but it seems to me that Chauvin was too slow in removing his knee. I could not give you a precise time - I think it would go more to a determination of when it was no longer needed. But I am the type of guy who, if on the jury, would need a good explanation of the law.

First one of the state's own expert witnesses testified that since a pulse was shown to be taken at the scene, that pulse reading would have been impossible with a knee or boot 'on the neck'. From that point forward the prosecutors referred to the position as 'around the neck area and upper back.'

So, the video evidence (and testimony above) bounced the talking point of 'on the neck.' Lets assume that correct. That means Chauvin braced his weight not across the neck, but on the upper back. To me, that changes the aspect of every count --- including the negligent homicide count.

Sorry I geeked out on the trial......

Also, the state's force witnesses to a person agreed that until the arrested was leg hobbled and handcuffed, a compliant detainee can become instantaneously frenetic and violent. Thus the suspect should always be under forcible restraint. Even more so when going through drug induced delirium--- the audio of the scene notes every officer there noting that the drug delirium protocol should be the one they did.

Given that, how I don't see Chauvin could have unbraced himself until Floyd's legs had hobble restraints on. And that is in the MPD protocol.

So what I see coming out of this is MPD, already facing a 70% upsurge in early departures and retirements will face dramatically more. The rule coming out of this is if you have a drugged belligerent aggressive suspect, you cannot restrain them without running the risk of prosecution. Triple so if they are black. The 'why the fk should I do this' will grow even more prevalent.

And I don't begrudge any officer that does toss it like that.

Minneapolis just sacrificed any trust that their officers might harbor. Glad as hell I don't live there.

(04-21-2021 06:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So what I see coming out of this is MPD, already facing a 70% upsurge in early departures and retirements will face dramatically more. The rule coming out of this is if you have a drugged belligerent aggressive suspect, you cannot restrain them without running the risk of prosecution. Triple so if they are black. The 'why the fk should I do this' will grow even more prevalent.

And I don't begrudge any officer that does toss it like that.

Minneapolis just sacrificed any trust that their officers might harbor. Glad as hell I don't live there.

The members of my extended family who were in the police or the Border Patrol have retired. I hope none of our younger generations opt for careers in law enforcement. Much safer and more honored to be a coal miner or crab fisherman. I have a 21 year old grandson casting about for what to do with the rest of his life, and I certainly hope nobody suggests law enforcement.

And yeah, no way I move to Minneapolis or any other other big city, including Houston or Dallas.

Waters used KKK tactics

black retired officer slams leftists

Re: Columbus

Interesting to see the lies and slants from the MSM and Democratic leaders.

(04-21-2021 06:32 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 03:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 03:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So everything for the first time X in the 9 mins 9 secs was hunky dory, then everything else past that balance, if I read you correctly?

What is that time X?

By the way, are you aware the state'es own witnesses precluded the ' knee on the neck'? And the state post that issue had to change gheir references of the 'knee on the neck to 'knee on the AREA AROUND THE neck '?

You talking to me, Tanq? I am not versed in the law, but it seems to me that Chauvin was too slow in removing his knee. I could not give you a precise time - I think it would go more to a determination of when it was no longer needed. But I am the type of guy who, if on the jury, would need a good explanation of the law.

First one of the state's own expert witnesses testified that since a pulse was shown to be taken at the scene, that pulse reading would have been impossible with a knee or boot 'on the neck'. From that point forward the prosecutors referred to the position as 'around the neck area and upper back.'

So, the video evidence (and testimony above) bounced the talking point of 'on the neck.' Lets assume that correct. That means Chauvin braced his weight not across the neck, but on the upper back. To me, that changes the aspect of every count --- including the negligent homicide count.

Sorry I geeked out on the trial......

There are people far more versed in both medicine and law than I to address this... but I probably represent a typical, well informed juror.

To me, you can cause damage to someone and initiate events that can kill someone by restricting their airway, which ANY pressure to the neck, chest etc can do. You don't have to strangle someone to cause a reaction that kills them... especially if they are otherwise compromised already. The question therefore isn't whether or not the knee killed him.... it is whether or not the knee contributed to a body reaction that killed him... which brings me to....

Was the knee to the back necessary? He had been in cuffs and relatively compliant for a good while. Yes, he was 'resisting' some actions based on what could be 'made up' symptoms... 'I can't breathe'... so we go to the purpose of the knee and the policies surrounding it. He violated policy and the intent. While he wouldn't do EVERYTHING the cops wanted him to do, he was not a danger as he was in cuffs, wasn't running, wasn't armed etc etc etc.... and he had alternatives, especially with multiple cops there and more help on the way. Have him sit down, cuff his ankles and surround him.... even hold a tazer on him. He chose to violate policy.... that was a choice. It is natural if you are having anxiety about being restricted to 'fight' that restriction. You can't CAUSE a reaction and then use the reaction as a justification for the acts that caused the reaction.

Murder? I don't see that based on my understanding of the word... but I don't know the wording of the laws in that state. I DO think he violated policy (with alternatives available) in a way that placed George at medical risk... and he suffered a medical reaction that killed him. It probably says that he did similar things before... disregarding policy and engaging in unnecessarily aggressive methods of restraint.... which is criminal given his position of authority... and it lead/contributed to his death.

If he follows policy and George dies, he walks IMO. If he doesn't, he's liable to some degree... and unfortunately for him, this is precisely what people are upset about. "Alpha' cops who engage in unnecessarily aggressive tactics.

The REACTIONS by many are ridiculous and arguably criminal. Waters did more to try and incite a riot than Trump EVER did.... but that doesn't change that he violated policy... both word and intent... and it resulted in the exact 'complaint' that we all generally support.