(08-30-2020 06:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: What I would like to see republicans do is to embrace the role of "Party of Lincoln" more seriously by taking on the emancipation of poor and people of color from the welfare plantation. They have an opposition party that relies for its political viability on the creation and maintenance of a permanent victim underclass. "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And they cannot do anything about that?
Among other things, that mission would seem to tie in much better with Christian ideals, and preserve or enhance the party's attraction to all Christians, including Evangelicals.
A permanent victim underclass is necessarily going to resort more to petty crimes, which necessarily leads to a more adversarial relationship with law enforcement, which leads to incidents that can be exploited by a demagogue party that wants to maintain that underclass and exploit division as a political strategy.
Things that I think can and should be done:
- Reconstruct the welfare system to plug the gaps and to reward upward mobility rather than to punish it; I favor universal private health care using the Bismarck model, and a subsistence-level universal basic income (UBI) based on Milton Friedman's negative income tax (NIT), or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund that is basically the NIT applied to a consumption tax paradigm; subsistence-level UBI means 1) you can't buy a welfare Cadillac with it, but 2) it doesn't go away as you start to make money
- Come up with a way to provide inner-city youth with access to better schools, and particularly better vocational education; that looks like school choice to me, but I will gladly consider viable alternatives; I do know this, pouring ever more dollars into failing and failed inner-city schools has been tried for 40 years and is a miserable failure
- Provide economic incentives such as enterprise zones to develop and redevelop businesses in inner-city areas, to create jobs that can lift peel out of poverty
- As for the "police brutality" issue, I think that stems much more form the creation and existence of a permanent victim underclass than it does from any sort of widespread institutional racism, but efforts to improve relations with law enforcement and poor and minority communities should be pushed, and pushed hard
We don't disagree, but I don't trust anybody out there right now to start to get some of this done.
I also think "the party of Lincoln" thing is down the drain when we still have periodic fights over Confederate stuff.
Lincoln brought his Confederate sister-in-law to live with him in the White House after her husband, a Confederate general, was killed in battle.
(08-30-2020 12:16 PM)LondonTiger Wrote: MAGA Christianity only exists inside the borders of the US - in some really dark hearts.
Well that is literally one of the dumbest things ever posted on this board. And that is really saying something.
Christianity is about 2000 years older than Donald Trump and most of Trumps supports doubt he is even a Christian at all. If he is its a very recent development.
When the Dems stop acting like anti-christian Marxists anarchists, they might be able to win back a few Christian voters they have driven away.
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2020 01:21 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
(08-30-2020 12:16 PM)LondonTiger Wrote: MAGA Christianity only exists inside the borders of the US - in some really dark hearts.
Well that is literally one of the dumbest things ever posted on this board. And that is really saying something.
Christianity is about 2000 years older than Donald Trump and most of Trumps supports doubt he is even a Christian at all. If he is its a very recent development.
When the Dems stop acting like anti-christian Marxists anarchists, they might be able to win back a few Christian voters they have driven away.
It will take more than that Eric. They would have to cease being anti-Christian Marxists that actually studied the Bible enough to quit aborting children, quit celebrating lifestyles alien to that of Christians, which quit seeing violence as a means to an end, and which practiced grace toward those who disagreed with them rather than a cancel culture attack.
The hope of change is always present, but the odds of it happening at this juncture are extremely long.
(08-30-2020 12:16 PM)LondonTiger Wrote: MAGA Christianity only exists inside the borders of the US - in some really dark hearts.
Well that is literally one of the dumbest things ever posted on this board. And that is really saying something.
Christianity is about 2000 years older than Donald Trump and most of Trumps supports doubt he is even a Christian at all. If he is its a very recent development.
When the Dems stop acting like anti-christian Marxists anarchists, they might be able to win back a few Christian voters they have driven away.
It will take more than that Eric. They would have to cease being anti-Christian Marxists that actually studied the Bible enough to quit aborting children, quit celebrating lifestyles alien to that of Christians, which quit seeing violence as a means to an end, and which practiced grace toward those who disagreed with them rather than a cancel culture attack.
The hope of change is always present, but the odds of it happening at this juncture are extremely long.
I don't see them stopping any of those things either, if anything I suspect they will just triple down on them and escalate them even more.
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2020 02:34 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
By their very nature, the two party system creates parties with somewhat flexible and changing platforms/belief systems--simply because you need to be flexible enough to get at least 51% of the voters under your tent to win. If you want parties that have hard and fast belief systems that are truly responsive to their membership--your really talking about having way more than just 2 parties. Furthermore, actually governing with a mish-mash of different parties in government will require the kind of changing/shifting alliances between elected officials of several different parties---similar to what you typically see under coalition governments.
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2020 02:25 PM by Attackcoog.)
(08-30-2020 06:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: What I would like to see republicans do is to embrace the role of "Party of Lincoln" more seriously by taking on the emancipation of poor and people of color from the welfare plantation. They have an opposition party that relies for its political viability on the creation and maintenance of a permanent victim underclass. "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And they cannot do anything about that?
Among other things, that mission would seem to tie in much better with Christian ideals, and preserve or enhance the party's attraction to all Christians, including Evangelicals.
A permanent victim underclass is necessarily going to resort more to petty crimes, which necessarily leads to a more adversarial relationship with law enforcement, which leads to incidents that can be exploited by a demagogue party that wants to maintain that underclass and exploit division as a political strategy.
Things that I think can and should be done:
- Reconstruct the welfare system to plug the gaps and to reward upward mobility rather than to punish it; I favor universal private health care using the Bismarck model, and a subsistence-level universal basic income (UBI) based on Milton Friedman's negative income tax (NIT), or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund that is basically the NIT applied to a consumption tax paradigm; subsistence-level UBI means 1) you can't buy a welfare Cadillac with it, but 2) it doesn't go away as you start to make money
- Come up with a way to provide inner-city youth with access to better schools, and particularly better vocational education; that looks like school choice to me, but I will gladly consider viable alternatives; I do know this, pouring ever more dollars into failing and failed inner-city schools has been tried for 40 years and is a miserable failure
- Provide economic incentives such as enterprise zones to develop and redevelop businesses in inner-city areas, to create jobs that can lift peel out of poverty
- As for the "police brutality" issue, I think that stems much more form the creation and existence of a permanent victim underclass than it does from any sort of widespread institutional racism, but efforts to improve relations with law enforcement and poor and minority communities should be pushed, and pushed hard
We don't disagree, but I don't trust anybody out there right now to start to get some of this done.
I also think "the party of Lincoln" thing is down the drain when we still have periodic fights over Confederate stuff.
Lincoln brought his Confederate sister-in-law to live with him in the White House after her husband, a Confederate general, was killed in battle.
And see how he was repaid for that act of kindness.
By their very nature, the two party system creates parties with somewhat flexible and changing platforms/belief systems--simply because you need to be flexible enough to get at least 51% of the voters under your tent to win. If you want parties that have hard and fast belief systems that are truly responsive to their membership--your really talking about having way more than just 2 parties. Furthermore, actually governing with a mish-mash of different parties in government will require the kind of changing/shifting alliances between elected officials of several different parties---similar to what you typically see under coalition governments.
Which are usually a mess. See Israel.
Its one thing with 3 or 4 like Canada and Britain. Its something totally different when you have a mass of ever shifting parties like you have had recently in France, Italy and Eastern Europe.
(08-30-2020 06:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: What I would like to see republicans do is to embrace the role of "Party of Lincoln" more seriously by taking on the emancipation of poor and people of color from the welfare plantation. They have an opposition party that relies for its political viability on the creation and maintenance of a permanent victim underclass. "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And they cannot do anything about that?
Among other things, that mission would seem to tie in much better with Christian ideals, and preserve or enhance the party's attraction to all Christians, including Evangelicals.
A permanent victim underclass is necessarily going to resort more to petty crimes, which necessarily leads to a more adversarial relationship with law enforcement, which leads to incidents that can be exploited by a demagogue party that wants to maintain that underclass and exploit division as a political strategy.
Things that I think can and should be done:
- Reconstruct the welfare system to plug the gaps and to reward upward mobility rather than to punish it; I favor universal private health care using the Bismarck model, and a subsistence-level universal basic income (UBI) based on Milton Friedman's negative income tax (NIT), or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund that is basically the NIT applied to a consumption tax paradigm; subsistence-level UBI means 1) you can't buy a welfare Cadillac with it, but 2) it doesn't go away as you start to make money
- Come up with a way to provide inner-city youth with access to better schools, and particularly better vocational education; that looks like school choice to me, but I will gladly consider viable alternatives; I do know this, pouring ever more dollars into failing and failed inner-city schools has been tried for 40 years and is a miserable failure
- Provide economic incentives such as enterprise zones to develop and redevelop businesses in inner-city areas, to create jobs that can lift peel out of poverty
- As for the "police brutality" issue, I think that stems much more form the creation and existence of a permanent victim underclass than it does from any sort of widespread institutional racism, but efforts to improve relations with law enforcement and poor and minority communities should be pushed, and pushed hard
We don't disagree, but I don't trust anybody out there right now to start to get some of this done.
I also think "the party of Lincoln" thing is down the drain when we still have periodic fights over Confederate stuff.
Lincoln brought his Confederate sister-in-law to live with him in the White House after her husband, a Confederate general, was killed in battle.
And see how he was repaid for that act of kindness.
He was raked over the coals by the Radicals in his own party.
His response, (paraphrased), "I get to select my own friends and acquaintances."
When he was assassinated, one of the Confederate leaders (think it was VP Breckingridge, but it could have been Gen. Lee Or Gen. Johnston), said, "We just lost our best friend."
(08-29-2020 02:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: I say the Bigger question, would the Republican party have survived without Trump? The GOP picked two neo-con RINO democrat wannabes to go against Obama and lost miserably as both McCain and Mittens ran FECKLESS campaigns. Had the Magnificent orange man not ran the GOP was lining up to nominate Little Jebbie. Low energy Jeb would have been a disaster as voters would have struggled to see any real difference in his policies and Hill-Dog's. Trump energized voters who hadn't bothered to vote in at least 8 years. Had the GOP lost in 2016 there would have be pressure from brain trusts like Bill Kristol to move to the left on many core GOP issues, 2nd Amendment, Climate Change, etc.
so the GOP is going to give us 8 years of Obama and 4 years of Biden and all we had to give up was 4 years to Trump? OK, I'm down with that.
Biden winning!!! That's the best joke I've heard in a while.
I believe people said the same about Trump...hope you still find it funny on Nov 4th
/
Can the Republican Party survive Trump?
Biden winning!!! 