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Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:14 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:53 AM)usffan Wrote:  [Image: def0cf302c079e856376c8c697ebbb89.gif]

(just busting your chops)

Yep, great get for USF. We now have future home games with Bama, Florida and Notre Dame. Not everybody agrees with our scheduling philosophy, but as a season ticket holder, I'm pretty stoked about it.

USFFan

USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

That school to the NE has an on-campus stadium and more than double the season ticket holders. You need the one to sell season tickets and to break even for the year, since you're charging over $100 for upper deck tickets for that game.

But UCF isn't getting any big P5 opponents. IIRC, they have only been able to wrangle programs like Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, and Louisville.

What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.

No question, but what UCF has working for it has not seemingly been the result of its defiant "we only do 1 and 1s with P5" policy, because that policy was only recently announced, whereas UCF has been building the success you are currently enjoying on the field and in the stands since well before then.

Thus, the policy has been an effect of your success, not a contributory cause of it. The UCF attitude seems to be that *because* we now have a consistent top 25 program on the field and a growing ticket base, we now have the luxury of insisting on 1/1 with P5, and because of our new stature, they will comply with that.

But to me, the evidence does not support this line, in that since announcing it, UCF has not been able to attract any blue-chip P5 to its schedule. The kinds of brand names that USF has been able to attract have apparently not been impressed with UCF's stature, at least not yet, to buy in to that narrative.

Maybe they eventually will, but as of now, the USF approach seems to be bearing greater fruit.

About the last point point though, the media point, I would agree that your policy might be justified as part of a larger strategy. That is, in the national media, UCF has kind of gained an image as a "defiant rebel" that bucks the system. That started with unilaterally declaring yourselves national champions, and this 1/1 policy has the same "system be damned" feel to it. The system says Alabama is the champ? Well hell we're hanging a banner anyway! The system says good little G5 accept only away games or 2 for 1 with P5? Well to hell with that, we're only doing 1 for 1s! This also fits with the AAC "P6" theme, which is itself a system-bucking theme.

So if UCF thinks its program-building prospects are best served by pursuing a broad strategy of "not acting like a G5", of acting like a Power program in the belief that if you act a certain way you can eventually "make it so", kind of will it in to existence, which again I agree is pretty much what the AAC is doing with P6, then I agree that 1/1 has that logic to it, even if it doesn't result in its putative goals, like getting good P5 teams on the schedule. Now whether this grand "rebel" strategy, if UCF even has it, is a good one or not, is another question.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2020 08:06 AM by quo vadis.)
08-29-2020 07:21 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:14 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:53 AM)usffan Wrote:  [Image: def0cf302c079e856376c8c697ebbb89.gif]

(just busting your chops)

Yep, great get for USF. We now have future home games with Bama, Florida and Notre Dame. Not everybody agrees with our scheduling philosophy, but as a season ticket holder, I'm pretty stoked about it.

USFFan

USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

That school to the NE has an on-campus stadium and more than double the season ticket holders. You need the one to sell season tickets and to break even for the year, since you're charging over $100 for upper deck tickets for that game.

But UCF isn't getting any big P5 opponents. IIRC, they have only been able to wrangle programs like Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, and Louisville.

What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.
To be fair, if they hadn't built the Bounce House, they would probably still be doing what USF has had to do, only with an inferior stadium in a worse neighborhood.
08-29-2020 08:10 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-29-2020 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:14 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

That school to the NE has an on-campus stadium and more than double the season ticket holders. You need the one to sell season tickets and to break even for the year, since you're charging over $100 for upper deck tickets for that game.

But UCF isn't getting any big P5 opponents. IIRC, they have only been able to wrangle programs like Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, and Louisville.

What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.

No question, but what UCF has working for it has not seemingly been the result of its defiant "we only do 1 and 1s with P5" policy, because that policy was only recently announced, whereas UCF has been building the success you are currently enjoying on the field and in the stands since well before then.

Thus, the policy has been an effect of your success, not a contributory cause of it. The UCF attitude seems to be that *because* we now have a consistent top 25 program on the field and a growing ticket base, we now have the luxury of insisting on 1/1 with P5, and because of our new stature, they will comply with that.

But to me, the evidence does not support this line, in that since announcing it, UCF has not been able to attract any blue-chip P5 to its schedule. The kinds of brand names that USF has been able to attract have apparently not been impressed with UCF's stature, at least not yet, to buy in to that narrative.

Maybe they eventually will, but as of now, the USF approach seems to be bearing greater fruit.

About the last point point though, the media point, I would agree that your policy might be justified as part of a larger strategy. That is, in the national media, UCF has kind of gained an image as a "defiant rebel" that bucks the system. That started with unilaterally declaring yourselves national champions, and this 1/1 policy has the same "system be damned" feel to it. The system says Alabama is the champ? Well hell we're hanging a banner anyway! The system says good little G5 accept only away games or 2 for 1 with P5? Well to hell with that, we're only doing 1 for 1s! This also fits with the AAC "P6" theme, which is itself a system-bucking theme.

So if UCF thinks its program-building prospects are best served by pursuing a broad strategy of "not acting like a G5", of acting like a Power program in the belief that if you act a certain way you can eventually "make it so", kind of will it in to existence, which again I agree is pretty much what the AAC is doing with P6, then I agree that 1/1 has that logic to it, even if it doesn't result in its putative goals, like getting good P5 teams on the schedule. Now whether this grand "rebel" strategy, if UCF even has it, is a good one or not, is another question.

Not necessarily. UCF is a growing program and although they have been great on the field lately, if you throw in an Alabama on their schedule in 2017, even in Orlando, and if they lose even by like 3 points........they are no longer undefeated, therefore all that press is lost. As a G5, its all or nothing. There is no longer a weekly segment on all the major college football shows talking about their streak. Quite honestly, a BSU that goes undefeated or an App State that goes undefeated playing maybe playing 1 or 2 celler dweller P5s potentially would get the go ahead over UCF for the NY6. No guaranteed, but certainly a possibility. So in a sense, playing mid tier p5s has worked well for them. However, at some point they need to make the next step and gamble, i think now is the time since they made a name for themselves
08-29-2020 08:54 AM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.

UCF is 5 years removed from a winless season, so maybe let's hold off on some of the adoration of "persistent preseason top 25 that usually stays there through the season..." stuff. Back in realityland, here's the 2017 preseason rankings:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/ra...asontype/2

Well that's odd - I see USF ranked and not UCF. Wouldn't a "persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season" have been ranked as recently as 3 years ago?

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=16636837]

What's sad and funny is that any thread that has USF positivity ends up becoming a cesspool by the Orlando hivemind that thinks UCF is the infallible center of the universe.

USFFan
08-29-2020 08:59 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
Hey, I appreciate USF as we go back further in conference history than UCF and that includes the old Big East.

BTW - good get with the ND series. 04-cheers
08-29-2020 09:19 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-29-2020 08:59 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.

UCF is 5 years removed from a winless season, so maybe let's hold off on some of the adoration of "persistent preseason top 25 that usually stays there through the season..." stuff. Back in realityland, here's the 2017 preseason rankings:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/ra...asontype/2

Well that's odd - I see USF ranked and not UCF. Wouldn't a "persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season" have been ranked as recently as 3 years ago?

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=16636837]

What's sad and funny is that any thread that has USF positivity ends up becoming a cesspool by the Orlando hivemind that thinks UCF is the infallible center of the universe.

USFFan

What part of pits of crap don't you understand? Even while swimming in that, they were already more accomplished with their 2013 BCS win and their winning of a BCS conference at the time. However, i posted about UCF only in the context of responding to Quo. However, persistent preseason top 25 NOW....... thats what I said, not pre undefeated streak. So although I applaud USF trying to schedule tough, however it is yet to be determined if that approach can pay off. What we do know is UCFs approach certainly paid off.
08-29-2020 09:55 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-29-2020 08:54 AM)otown Wrote:  
(08-29-2020 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 10:35 PM)otown Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:14 PM)whittx Wrote:  That school to the NE has an on-campus stadium and more than double the season ticket holders. You need the one to sell season tickets and to break even for the year, since you're charging over $100 for upper deck tickets for that game.

But UCF isn't getting any big P5 opponents. IIRC, they have only been able to wrangle programs like Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, and Louisville.

What UCF has been doing is working. You cannot argue with results on the field and growing a season ticket holder base. Sure USF will have a few of these games, I would love it if UCF got them too, but in the grand scheme of things, what UCF managed to do was build a name from the pits crap, and now is persistent preseason top 25 team that usually stays there through the season and sure as hell gets talked about a lot, positively and negatively by the national media.... and in this game of popularity contests, there is no such thing as negative press.

No question, but what UCF has working for it has not seemingly been the result of its defiant "we only do 1 and 1s with P5" policy, because that policy was only recently announced, whereas UCF has been building the success you are currently enjoying on the field and in the stands since well before then.

Thus, the policy has been an effect of your success, not a contributory cause of it. The UCF attitude seems to be that *because* we now have a consistent top 25 program on the field and a growing ticket base, we now have the luxury of insisting on 1/1 with P5, and because of our new stature, they will comply with that.

But to me, the evidence does not support this line, in that since announcing it, UCF has not been able to attract any blue-chip P5 to its schedule. The kinds of brand names that USF has been able to attract have apparently not been impressed with UCF's stature, at least not yet, to buy in to that narrative.

Maybe they eventually will, but as of now, the USF approach seems to be bearing greater fruit.

About the last point point though, the media point, I would agree that your policy might be justified as part of a larger strategy. That is, in the national media, UCF has kind of gained an image as a "defiant rebel" that bucks the system. That started with unilaterally declaring yourselves national champions, and this 1/1 policy has the same "system be damned" feel to it. The system says Alabama is the champ? Well hell we're hanging a banner anyway! The system says good little G5 accept only away games or 2 for 1 with P5? Well to hell with that, we're only doing 1 for 1s! This also fits with the AAC "P6" theme, which is itself a system-bucking theme.

So if UCF thinks its program-building prospects are best served by pursuing a broad strategy of "not acting like a G5", of acting like a Power program in the belief that if you act a certain way you can eventually "make it so", kind of will it in to existence, which again I agree is pretty much what the AAC is doing with P6, then I agree that 1/1 has that logic to it, even if it doesn't result in its putative goals, like getting good P5 teams on the schedule. Now whether this grand "rebel" strategy, if UCF even has it, is a good one or not, is another question.

Not necessarily. UCF is a growing program and although they have been great on the field lately, if you throw in an Alabama on their schedule in 2017, even in Orlando, and if they lose even by like 3 points........they are no longer undefeated, therefore all that press is lost. As a G5, its all or nothing. There is no longer a weekly segment on all the major college football shows talking about their streak. Quite honestly, a BSU that goes undefeated or an App State that goes undefeated playing maybe playing 1 or 2 celler dweller P5s potentially would get the go ahead over UCF for the NY6. No guaranteed, but certainly a possibility. So in a sense, playing mid tier p5s has worked well for them. However, at some point they need to make the next step and gamble, i think now is the time since they made a name for themselves

That's good point there. E.g., last year, UCF was in the national conversation early on, but when they lost to Pitt, they fell off the map. Even as they then rebounded and had a very good season, finishing in the Top 25, it was like nationally nobody noticed once the Pitt game was lost.

So yeah, I can see that angle of the strategy as well. It's true that G5 are generally on a very short leash with the voters and national media. You have to be undefeated or you get forgotten quick.
08-29-2020 12:23 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
This is why what UCF is doing is working
https://collegefootballnews.com/lists/bo...-preseason
08-29-2020 12:28 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:53 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 04:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Didn't see a post on this, apologies if there has been one.

Coolest thing is it will be part of a 2 for 1 that will bring the Irish to Tampa at a future date.

Congratulations to the USA Athletic Department for making this happen!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.c...11325/Amp/

[Image: def0cf302c079e856376c8c697ebbb89.gif]

(just busting your chops)

Yep, great get for USF. We now have future home games with Bama, Florida and Notre Dame. Not everybody agrees with our scheduling philosophy, but as a season ticket holder, I'm pretty stoked about it.

USFFan

USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

Now al you have to do is win.
08-29-2020 09:51 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-29-2020 09:51 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:53 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 04:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Didn't see a post on this, apologies if there has been one.

Coolest thing is it will be part of a 2 for 1 that will bring the Irish to Tampa at a future date.

Congratulations to the USA Athletic Department for making this happen!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.c...11325/Amp/

[Image: def0cf302c079e856376c8c697ebbb89.gif]

(just busting your chops)

Yep, great get for USF. We now have future home games with Bama, Florida and Notre Dame. Not everybody agrees with our scheduling philosophy, but as a season ticket holder, I'm pretty stoked about it.

USFFan

USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

Now al you have to do is win.

To our credit, we do have a pretty good history dating back to the Big East of winning OOC games vs big-name competition. E.g., the only time we've played Notre Dame, in 2011, we won. Sure, we've lost many as well, particularly to the Florida Big 3, but we have captured some hides over the years.
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2020 09:21 AM by quo vadis.)
08-30-2020 06:53 AM
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TyBull Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
Fantastic discussion. Not to many ? thrown. Keep up the great work. Enjoyable reading
08-30-2020 07:41 AM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Notre Dame hosts USF September 19
(08-30-2020 06:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-29-2020 09:51 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 08:53 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(08-28-2020 04:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Didn't see a post on this, apologies if there has been one.

Coolest thing is it will be part of a 2 for 1 that will bring the Irish to Tampa at a future date.

Congratulations to the USA Athletic Department for making this happen!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.c...11325/Amp/

[Image: def0cf302c079e856376c8c697ebbb89.gif]

(just busting your chops)

Yep, great get for USF. We now have future home games with Bama, Florida and Notre Dame. Not everybody agrees with our scheduling philosophy, but as a season ticket holder, I'm pretty stoked about it.

USFFan

USF hasn't won much on the field the last couple of years, but I think our scheduling philosophy, our willingness to do 2-1 deals *with big names* has beaten the defiant "nothing but home and homes with P5" that others, like that school to the northeast, have tried to push.

Great job by our Athletic Department.

04-cheers

Now al you have to do is win.

To our credit, we do have a pretty good history dating back to the Big East of winning OOC games vs big-name competition. E.g., the only time we've played Notre Dame, in 2011, we won. Sure, we've lost many as well, particularly to the Florida Big 3, but we have captured some hides over the years.

I meant it positively. Take'em down. Home crowd should not be much of a factor.
08-30-2020 06:29 PM
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