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Continued BT and JJ Discussion — Pt. 286
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Continued BT and JJ Discussion — Pt. 286
(08-24-2020 09:31 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:27 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 07:30 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 08:39 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(08-21-2020 09:37 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Awesome. Just what we needed. Welcome to the Monarchs!
This cat averaged 5 points, 2 boards, and shot 43% from the freethrow line. What exactly am I missing here?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Finding a big that is high level scorer and an all around talent...will not happen at our level. So...this kid has the basics and looks like he can mature physically to become a decent player. That is what I look at not his production at a JUCO level that is all about guards and getting up and down the court. Kid is mobile and can play above the rim. I will take it.

If UR (Golden) and WKU (Basset) can recruit great big men, we certainly should be able to as well. Even W&M had a formidable front line last year. I give JJ an F when it comes to recruiting (or keeping) decent big men. The issue is not “our level” in my view.

Bassey is a different animal and we aren't recruiting at WKYs level while $tansbury is there.

Grant Golden was a not a great recruit. He had offers from Richmond, American, Furman, Holy Cross, JMU. He turned into a great big man. FWIW, if we signed him back in 2016, people would be saying bad things about our recruiting.

FWIW, here are our big men:

Arledge
Stith
Porter
Ekizpe
Dickens

Really not a bad group despite the highest ranking guy (Dickens) not working out.

You left off:

Kah
Carver
Karaiskos

I'd take any of these that Blaine recruited over any of them:

Laughton
Lee
Hassell
08-24-2020 10:01 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
JJ isn't in BT's league when it comes to recruiting and developing big men. That said, I think it's only fair that you compare the other positions. Outside of PG, BT really wasn't great at recruiting or developing guards. Even his PGs were very limited scorers. What JJ gives up with his big men, he makes up with his guards.
08-24-2020 11:02 AM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?
08-24-2020 11:38 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
Because JJ wasn't the sexy pick, so he'll have to do better than the very best teams in ODU history every single year to prove to the naysayers they were wrong about JJ.
08-24-2020 11:45 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2020 11:49 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
08-24-2020 11:45 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?
08-24-2020 12:06 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Because he was the previous coach, recruited high quality bigs and therefore proved it can be done. Alex, Dahi, Valdus, Gerald. Even Sam would probably start on this squad. I wouldnt just compare JJ to BT, but to Capel, Young, Purnell etc. And 8 years ago isnt that long. Sober BT was a better coach and recruiter than JJ. I don't even think its close. But, sober BT went away, replaced by drunk BT and we let him go. Rightfully so. Then our first choice new coach who was basically hired got on a lucky streak in the NCAA and backed out of his commitment to come here and we got stuck with JJ as a replacement. JJs done fine. In some ways, better than I feared. In most ways, he's pretty much what I expected. Top third CUSA, OK recruiting, and an occasional post-season appearance. Regardless, JJ has a hard time getting quality interior players. Ezipke is probably the best one he's had. BTs success in that area shows it can be done here.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2020 03:26 PM by monarx.)
08-24-2020 03:24 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 12:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?

When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).
08-24-2020 04:05 PM
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monarx Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?

When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".
08-24-2020 04:09 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

JJ still got his full salary for the last 7 years, and the remaining years, the genius (Wood) has extended. Football has nothing to do with JJ's 500K yearly salary.
08-24-2020 05:08 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 03:24 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Because he was the previous coach, recruited high quality bigs and therefore proved it can be done. Alex, Dahi, Valdus, Gerald. Even Sam would probably start on this squad. I wouldnt just compare JJ to BT, but to Capel, Young, Purnell etc. And 8 years ago isnt that long. Sober BT was a better coach and recruiter than JJ. I don't even think its close. But, sober BT went away, replaced by drunk BT and we let him go. Rightfully so. Then our first choice new coach who was basically hired got on a lucky streak in the NCAA and backed out of his commitment to come here and we got stuck with JJ as a replacement. JJs done fine. In some ways, better than I feared. In most ways, he's pretty much what I expected. Top third CUSA, OK recruiting, and an occasional post-season appearance. Regardless, JJ has a hard time getting quality interior players. Ezipke is probably the best one he's had. BTs success in that area shows it can be done here.

Sam Harris would not start here lol.

BT obviously had a better track record here but the gap is nowhere near as wide as people make it seem. Im guessing its due to the 2 years that everyone remembers over the remaining body of his work. JJ actually has a higher win percentage. BT also had some advantages at the time and hopefully the practice facility helps recruiting (most recruits are saying it does help, FWIW).

In terms of comparing JJ to Capel, JJ comes out way ahead. Capel was not good outside of the gift wrapped squad.


FWIW, we've been way better than "top third CUSA."

I don't think Ezikpe is the best center we've had but I do hope he rises to that level (and I believe he has the talent to do so). He has a ways until he reaches Stith, Porter, or Arledge status. JJ certainly has not had the big men that BT had, but he's had some pretty solid ones. If we went down the list, JJ certainly has had way better point guards. Wing players....I'd have to do some research as off the top of my head I have no idea.

But that doesn't get the infactuation with big players (or freshman big players for that matter). If people constantly compared wing players that JJ recruits to BTs wing players, would it mean anything?
08-24-2020 06:24 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why are we comparing BT to JJ in recruiting big men?

Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?

When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

There are a lot of differences. JJ's offense has a slower tempo with more 3 point shooting. The big men are typically more pick and roll guys as opposed to post up players. Defensivly JJ packs the paint more at the expense of 3 point shooting.
08-24-2020 06:30 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

Except when the opponent was VCU. Uncanny how often they shot it with confidence in our spot.
08-24-2020 07:19 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 07:19 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

Except when the opponent was VCU. Uncanny how often they shot it with confidence in our spot.

In 7 years and running, how many NCAA appearances will ODU make? 1
I'm not use to going to the NCAA every 7 years and probably the next few years

The good days are over, unless we get an infusion like the football staff.
08-25-2020 07:40 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-25-2020 07:40 AM)bluelight Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:19 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

Except when the opponent was VCU. Uncanny how often they shot it with confidence in our spot.

In 7 years and running, how many NCAA appearances will ODU make? 1
I'm not use to going to the NCAA every 7 years and probably the next few years

The good days are over, unless we get an infusion like the football staff.

We should be in the running for the CUSA auto-bid this year, but we have a long way to go before we are in NCAA or even NIT at-large category again. Im of the mindset that ODU should be at the level where we go to the NCAA at least once every 4 years. No player should come to ODU and graduate without experiencing the tournament. If thats happening, then we need to do something to improve the situation.
08-25-2020 08:27 AM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
We have almost always had to win the conference tourney to get into the NCAA tourney. We have had 2 years in the last 2 decades where we were a top 50 team. And nowadays, its even tougher for mid majors to get at large bids because the P5 teams load their schedule up for the committee to put them in despite a 19 win season.

You might could argue a couple other teams were close to consideration for the at large bid (06, 15, 18) but the reality is in 99.9% of our seasons we've had to win the conference tourney to get in the NCAA tourney. That was true with BT and is true now with JJ. And they aren't going to make it easier for mids to get at large bids.
08-25-2020 09:48 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-24-2020 06:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Fair or not, coaches are always compared to their immediate predecessors. But one thing these folks will overlook when comparing JJ and BT, for the majority of his tenure, BT didn’t have to contend with football when it came to attention, support or budget.

We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?

When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

There are a lot of differences. JJ's offense has a slower tempo with more 3 point shooting. The big men are typically more pick and roll guys as opposed to post up players. Defensivly JJ packs the paint more at the expense of 3 point shooting.

This is about the only thing we will agree on in this thread. I don't see their styles as similar at all other that slow pace of play and a focus defense. They go about it completely differently though. BT's defense was far more aggressive, and applied more ball pressure, while JJ is super conservative on the perimeter and wants to protect the paint at all costs. BT liked to switch defenses and try to cause chaos at times, while JJ wants to play man and force the opponent to grind. Offensively, there are almost no similarities between the two. Everything BT did was designed to get the ball into the post and get second chance points. It was also a more aggressive approach that what we see from JJ, who wants to run sets to get open jumpshots, or a pick and roll opportunity.
08-25-2020 10:47 AM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-25-2020 10:47 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  We are now talking about a coach that was rightfully fired 8 years ago in a different era of college basketball than how it is played today.

It would seem silly to do a comparison and say look at the point guards JJ has recruited versus the ones BT recruited. Whats the point?

When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

There are a lot of differences. JJ's offense has a slower tempo with more 3 point shooting. The big men are typically more pick and roll guys as opposed to post up players. Defensivly JJ packs the paint more at the expense of 3 point shooting.

This is about the only thing we will agree on in this thread. I don't see their styles as similar at all other that slow pace of play and a focus defense. They go about it completely differently though. BT's defense was far more aggressive, and applied more ball pressure, while JJ is super conservative on the perimeter and wants to protect the paint at all costs. BT liked to switch defenses and try to cause chaos at times, while JJ wants to play man and force the opponent to grind. Offensively, there are almost no similarities between the two. Everything BT did was designed to get the ball into the post and get second chance points. It was also a more aggressive approach that what we see from JJ, who wants to run sets to get open jumpshots, or a pick and roll opportunity.

Do you think JJ would like to do as BT did, and get the ball into the post and get the second chance points ? I think JJs game plan is set up for this type of play, he just doesnt have the horses to do it like BT was, so we settle for jump shots. BT admitted his plan was in part due to poor perimeter shooting, and JJs teams haven't been much better there other than Freeman. Just a thought.
08-25-2020 02:35 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-25-2020 02:35 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 10:47 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

There are a lot of differences. JJ's offense has a slower tempo with more 3 point shooting. The big men are typically more pick and roll guys as opposed to post up players. Defensivly JJ packs the paint more at the expense of 3 point shooting.

This is about the only thing we will agree on in this thread. I don't see their styles as similar at all other that slow pace of play and a focus defense. They go about it completely differently though. BT's defense was far more aggressive, and applied more ball pressure, while JJ is super conservative on the perimeter and wants to protect the paint at all costs. BT liked to switch defenses and try to cause chaos at times, while JJ wants to play man and force the opponent to grind. Offensively, there are almost no similarities between the two. Everything BT did was designed to get the ball into the post and get second chance points. It was also a more aggressive approach that what we see from JJ, who wants to run sets to get open jumpshots, or a pick and roll opportunity.

Do you think JJ would like to do as BT did, and get the ball into the post and get the second chance points ? I think JJs game plan is set up for this type of play, he just doesnt have the horses to do it like BT was, so we settle for jump shots. BT admitted his plan was in part due to poor perimeter shooting, and JJs teams haven't been much better there other than Freeman. Just a thought.

I agree. I feel like we spend every set play trying to get the ball into the paint and either miss the opportunity, pass it into the paint in a bad position, or can't get it into the paint due to a number of factors. So we settle for a desperation three becasue we can't do anything else, or force a up a bad shot from a bad position in the paint and we don't have players to get in there and put up the 2nd chance shots like we did during BT's years. I think JJ would love to have a dominant offensive post player, it would open up so much more of our offense just like having guys that could actually shoot from the perimeter would help open up the middle. We are one dimensional becasue we are not very good at either offensive part of the game. We have average shooters and average post players on the offensive side of the ball. Hence the slow pace and the major focus on not letting the other team score.
08-25-2020 03:05 PM
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(08-25-2020 02:35 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 10:47 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:09 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 04:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  When exactly did our current "era" of college basketball come into existence if it was a different one when Blaine was coaching? I don't see where Jeff's style has changed since he arrived. It has been a steady diet of half court defense, and slow methodical half court offense. The style is very similar to what Blaine's teams played. The biggest difference is that he had much better post players.

I can see where Marshall changed their style of play once they hired Dantoni as their coach (for example).

Exactly. JJ's style is almost the same as BTs. Only without the inside game. I would say with better guard play, but man, Drew W was fantastic. Rugged defense, strong rebounding, physical, aggressive grind it out basketball with less than average shooting and bad free throws. The Ted is basically "the house that defense built".

There are a lot of differences. JJ's offense has a slower tempo with more 3 point shooting. The big men are typically more pick and roll guys as opposed to post up players. Defensivly JJ packs the paint more at the expense of 3 point shooting.

This is about the only thing we will agree on in this thread. I don't see their styles as similar at all other that slow pace of play and a focus defense. They go about it completely differently though. BT's defense was far more aggressive, and applied more ball pressure, while JJ is super conservative on the perimeter and wants to protect the paint at all costs. BT liked to switch defenses and try to cause chaos at times, while JJ wants to play man and force the opponent to grind. Offensively, there are almost no similarities between the two. Everything BT did was designed to get the ball into the post and get second chance points. It was also a more aggressive approach that what we see from JJ, who wants to run sets to get open jumpshots, or a pick and roll opportunity.

Do you think JJ would like to do as BT did, and get the ball into the post and get the second chance points ? I think JJs game plan is set up for this type of play, he just doesnt have the horses to do it like BT was, so we settle for jump shots. BT admitted his plan was in part due to poor perimeter shooting, and JJs teams haven't been much better there other than Freeman. Just a thought.

JJs teams have never had posting up as an option despite having guys like Porter. its just not how his offense runs. BT's teams posted up a ton because he liked to play old school basketball.

Watch JJs sets, they are designed for jump shots (frustrating to me really bc I would rather them shoot 3s vs. elbow jumpers). Obviously there are different sets and different plays for different skillsets (Taylor was a fine passer from the top of the guy, for example), but in general they run action to get the ball at the elbow.

The lack of postups is good as its an inefficient play. But, they need to continue to improve on getting out in transition. And shoot more 3s as opposed to long 2s. Still a very good offensive rebounding team.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2020 03:30 PM by Gilesfan.)
08-25-2020 03:29 PM
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