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DSL Offline
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Post: #61
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
In response to a previous post:
You lower the bar for debate when you start labeling people with the "rascist" word.
I assume everyone on this board is NOT A RACIST.
In my profession, everyone is presumed innocent.
A debate over who it is that is revising history is legitimate and is something
objective intellectuals should be able to do.
09-08-2020 08:52 AM
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wanm65 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
What a load of racist, revisionist crap. If your position is that those enslaved here don't deserve recognition because of some supposed break in the college's history -- does that mean you are against claiming and promoting Washington, Jefferson, Monroe, Marshall, etc? Or does that line of thinking conveniently only apply to the slavery in place at that time?
[/quote]

I, for one, am disappointed in your statement. The only person who said these things are you.

It shows an acute lack of tolerance or willingness to discuss the issue.

My W&M education challenged me to analyze, think about an issue & then draw conclusions. The next step is to debate those conclusions with other people & see what comes about.
09-08-2020 09:53 AM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
It is a fine, stunning memorial, will greatly impact all who see it, and a great addition to the university.
09-08-2020 03:15 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #64
W&M African-American Memorial
That's over the line 2011. Calling someone a racist isn't okay. Please consider alternative language to make your point.

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(This post was last modified: 09-08-2020 03:29 PM by Tribal.)
09-08-2020 03:28 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #65
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-08-2020 07:27 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-07-2020 08:30 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-07-2020 07:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Agreed. It's a shame that we small-donor alums had no voice in this project, but that's the way modern university finance works.

Are you kidding? University finance has more transparency and accountability now than ever. Before the Internet, nobody would have known this project existed until they showed back up at the school or read about it in the alumni newsletter.

In the early 1980's when I attended W&M, the State of Virginia contributed about 2/3 of W&M's operations. Everyday alums had a say in W&M finances through legislative elections. Now that figure is down to about 10%. W&M is dependent on big-money donors to pick up the slack. Those donors want specific projects completed. They don't often simply contribute to the general welfare. Hence the memorial.

Just to be clear, you're suggesting that voting on state legislators was the voice of the small donor that is missing now? I was too young and not living in VA in the early 80s, was W&M finance a big part of state political platforms?

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09-08-2020 03:51 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-08-2020 08:17 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I don't recall the same calls for votes or mass approval when the school installed a Monroe statue a few years back...

hah, I was just thinking about this statue today (I think... the one in front of Tucker right?).

I don't have any issue with Monroe, but that statue is an ugly monstrosity and out of place and in the middle of the freaking walkway.

It was a terrible decision to put it there.
09-08-2020 04:32 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-08-2020 03:51 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-08-2020 07:27 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-07-2020 08:30 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-07-2020 07:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Agreed. It's a shame that we small-donor alums had no voice in this project, but that's the way modern university finance works.

Are you kidding? University finance has more transparency and accountability now than ever. Before the Internet, nobody would have known this project existed until they showed back up at the school or read about it in the alumni newsletter.

In the early 1980's when I attended W&M, the State of Virginia contributed about 2/3 of W&M's operations. Everyday alums had a say in W&M finances through legislative elections. Now that figure is down to about 10%. W&M is dependent on big-money donors to pick up the slack. Those donors want specific projects completed. They don't often simply contribute to the general welfare. Hence the memorial.

Just to be clear, you're suggesting that voting on state legislators was the voice of the small donor that is missing now? I was too young and not living in VA in the early 80s, was W&M finance a big part of state political platforms?

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Of course. If the memorial was a state-supported project, there would have been great voter interest. For instance, the proposed use of state funds to expand Cary Stadium was a big topic in the early '80s. I have no input into what projects rich donors choose to fund on campus.
09-08-2020 04:57 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #68
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?



http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/
09-17-2020 02:46 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?
09-17-2020 04:44 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc
09-17-2020 04:53 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.
09-17-2020 05:22 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #72
W&M African-American Memorial
"3-4 African-Americans working on a building" statues set slight spread out in matte black or darken bronze would've looked sweet and would fit right in with our campus[Image: cb6fcdaa59ea64c39cc484590264d996.jpg][Image: 5be979c30514588301d63aecb6316cd8.jpg]

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09-17-2020 05:30 PM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

You mean something like the open solicitation they put out for ideas and input more than two years ago that was widely covered and publicized?

https://apnews.com/ddc465523c05412881da5...y-memorial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu...story.html

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/l...-588672933
09-17-2020 05:36 PM
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Swemster Offline
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Post: #74
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

Why?
09-17-2020 05:42 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #75
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 05:36 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

You mean something like the open solicitation they put out for ideas and input more than two years ago that was widely covered and publicized?

https://apnews.com/ddc465523c05412881da5...y-memorial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu...story.html

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/l...-588672933

I don't read the Washington Post, watch whatever 13 news, or view AP news. How about sending a frickin email, put it in W&M, or attach it to the numerous donation cards I received?

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09-17-2020 06:24 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 05:42 PM)Swemster Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 02:46 PM)DSL Wrote:  This article and map from the Flat Hat seems to show the memorial being built
somewhere between the Brafferton and the College Corner.
I thought it would be across the street from the Admissions Office.
Has the college announced an exact site?

http://flathatnews.com/2020/09/08/new-mo...mon-hardy/

Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

Why?

UVa did it right.

https://news.virginia.edu/content/design...s-approval
09-17-2020 06:32 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #77
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 06:24 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:36 PM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

You mean something like the open solicitation they put out for ideas and input more than two years ago that was widely covered and publicized?

https://apnews.com/ddc465523c05412881da5...y-memorial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu...story.html

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/l...-588672933

I don't read the Washington Post, watch whatever 13 news, or view AP news. How about sending a frickin email, put it in W&M, or attach it to the numerous donation cards I received?

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Do you mean like maybe on the W&M website?
https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/ide...slaved.php
09-17-2020 07:22 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #78
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 06:32 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:42 PM)Swemster Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 05:22 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(09-17-2020 04:44 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Ugh. The administration and the big money donor(s) are ramming this project down our throats fast. Did any regular alums have any say in the location?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect the school to have a vote among all alums when it wants to do something. It's not like there was a public vote on the Monroe statue, Griffin Statue, ISC, which dorms to renovate, etc

I'm not suggesting W&M hold a public vote. However, the administration should have sought some input from the general alumni base.

Why?

UVa did it right.

https://news.virginia.edu/content/design...s-approval

Someone let President Rowe know that all future decisions at W&M need to be approved by Tribe1983. Stories in the AP, on the W&M website, and other notifications are not enough, we need to make sure that a personal courier goes to his house to read the stories to him.
09-17-2020 07:27 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #79
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
Agree the UVA memorial is attractive and much better sited on Central Grounds.
The UVA memorial and the slope work well together and it's highly visible, located between the Rotunda and the Corner. This was already a location where students
would sit to study or congregate on a sunny day. It's also highly visible to the community.

Every aspect of the W&M memorial seems to fail compared to the UVA design and placement.
09-17-2020 07:48 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-17-2020 07:48 PM)DSL Wrote:  Agree the UVA memorial is attractive and much better sited on Central Grounds.
The UVA memorial and the slope work well together and it's highly visible, located between the Rotunda and the Corner. This was already a location where students
would sit to study or congregate on a sunny day. It's also highly visible to the community.

Every aspect of the W&M memorial seems to fail compared to the UVA design and placement.

You're absolutely correct, DSL. Everything about the design and placement seems wrong, particularly when measured against UVA's excellent concept. Students won't sit and study or congregate to reflect on slavery if the monument is placed near the Brafferton as apparently proposed. Plus, that location has a lot of vehicle traffic as tourists approach a very confusing intersection. Inserting an odd boxy object there will generate quizzical looks but not much genuine interaction.
09-18-2020 05:04 AM
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