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W&M African-American Interests
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DSL Offline
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Post: #21
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
I believe 2 million was mentioned
I believe the BOV members pledged one million and the rest also came from donations.
I'm not certain, however.
09-04-2020 03:09 PM
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wanm65 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 03:05 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Is it costing us $2mil?

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YES
09-04-2020 03:17 PM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 03:05 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Is it costing us $2mil?

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A more than worthwhile expense for what is a necessary, positive, and critical step forward for the W&M community.
09-04-2020 03:59 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 03:59 PM)tribetime10 Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 03:05 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Is it costing us $2mil?

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A more than worthwhile expense for what is a necessary, positive, and critical step forward for the W&M community.

I agree, it's not so much about the form or cost of the memorial, its about what the College is acknowledging in a meaningful way. What we are “buying" is reconciliation, atonement, and getting us back to a place where everyone feels equally at home in our Tribe. Hard to put a dollar figure on that.

So, for the budget hawks in the group, consider the inflation adjusted value of all the “free” labor the College benefitted from during this extended period of our history. Maybe complaining about cost in that context will offer some perspective.
09-04-2020 04:35 PM
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Blow Gym rat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 04:35 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 03:59 PM)tribetime10 Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 03:05 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Is it costing us $2mil?

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A more than worthwhile expense for what is a necessary, positive, and critical step forward for the W&M community.

I agree, it's not so much about the form or cost of the memorial, its about what the College is acknowledging in a meaningful way. What we are “buying" is reconciliation, atonement, and getting us back to a place where everyone feels equally at home in our Tribe. Hard to put a dollar figure on that.

...

To speak of "getting us back to a place where everyone feels equally at home in our Tribe" presupposes that W&M once was in that place. I was never a W&M undergrad, and even if I had been I wouldn't be familiar with all eras, so I'm not equipped to speak to whether we were ever "there" or not.

But if we were, what happened that we lost it? Who or what is responsible? It seems like a terrible thing to have happened.
09-04-2020 05:00 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #26
W&M African-American Memorial
I agree with an African-American memorial. Let's get that out of the way.

Does fiscal responsibility involve spending $2mil on a memorial? Would a $500k memorial designed by the African-American sororities & fraternities on campus suffice? Does money spent equate to the amount of love?

I say a $0.50 handmade birthday card means a lot more than a $5 Hallmark card.



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09-04-2020 06:09 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
there are tons of places W&M could cut spending

that said, I think a large amount (all?) of the funds for the memorial were donated for that cause
09-04-2020 06:12 PM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 06:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I agree with an African-American memorial. Let's get that out of the way.

Does fiscal responsibility involve spending $2mil on a memorial? Would a $500k memorial designed by the African-American sororities & fraternities on campus suffice? Does money spent equate to the amount of love?

I say a $0.50 handmade birthday card means a lot more than a $5 Hallmark card.

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My church at W&M took a spring break mission trip to help rebuild after Katrina. Maybe we can get the gang back together to complete the arena project and call it a day.
09-04-2020 06:18 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 06:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I agree with an African-American memorial. Let's get that out of the way.

Does fiscal responsibility involve spending $2mil on a memorial? Would a $500k memorial designed by the African-American sororities & fraternities on campus suffice? Does money spent equate to the amount of love?

I say a $0.50 handmade birthday card means a lot more than a $5 Hallmark card.



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I’m not arguing that the memorial has to cross some cost threshold to be meaningful. However, one poster suggested a plaque would suffice, I’d would argue that is not a sufficient gesture given the extent slavery played a role at the College. If something equally meaningful could be put in place for less, then by all means, we should be fiscally responsible. My point was it is hard to but a dollar value on something like this and perhaps its a bit tone death to question the cost of a memorial to slaves that were forced to provide millions in free labor to the College directly or indirectly. It's not a huge stretch to question wether or not the College would even exist today, or occupy its current lofty status, if not for the unwilling participation of these slaves in the first 170 years of the College’s existence.
09-04-2020 06:37 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #30
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 06:37 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I agree with an African-American memorial. Let's get that out of the way.

Does fiscal responsibility involve spending $2mil on a memorial? Would a $500k memorial designed by the African-American sororities & fraternities on campus suffice? Does money spent equate to the amount of love?

I say a $0.50 handmade birthday card means a lot more than a $5 Hallmark card.



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I’m not arguing that the memorial has to cross some cost threshold to be meaningful. However, one poster suggested a plaque would suffice, I’d would argue that is not a sufficient gesture given the extent slavery played a role at the College. If something equally meaningful could be put in place for less, then by all means, we should be fiscally responsible. My point was it is hard to but a dollar value on something like this and perhaps its a bit tone death to question the cost of a memorial to slaves that were forced to provide millions in free labor to the College directly or indirectly. It's not a huge stretch to question wether or not the College would even exist today, or occupy its current lofty status, if not for the unwilling participation of these slaves in the first 170 years of the College’s existence.
I agree, but don't you think our African-American students should have a play? It seems to me that those who relate to the struggle should have a say. $2mil seems outrageous. A nice heartfelt memorial designed by our students seems appropriate. Ask a student committee to design something the can stand behind and give them a $500k budget.

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(This post was last modified: 09-04-2020 08:14 PM by Tribal.)
09-04-2020 08:10 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #31
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
Does this memorial brick box building at least have a plaque discussing slave history at the College? What does it teach us and how does it teach us without any text?
A meaningful plaque ( you can make it extra large) in the vicinity of the Wren
would seem a better means to convey knowledge.

We don't want people to see it and ask, "What the heck is this?"
09-04-2020 08:11 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 08:11 PM)DSL Wrote:  Does this memorial brick box building at least have a plaque discussing slave history at the College? What does it teach us and how does it teach us without any text?
A meaningful plaque ( you can make it extra large) in the vicinity of the Wren
would seem a better means to convey knowledge.

We don't want people to see it and ask, "What the heck is this?"

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the point, it's something that will get you to stop and look at it. A plaque is easy to walk past and ignore.

It also includes the names of everyone enslaved by the College, so there is some meaning and education behind the sculpture.
09-04-2020 08:16 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #33
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
Did our African American students and alums have much input into this design?
What sort of design would be most meaningful to them?
09-04-2020 08:18 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #34
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 08:18 PM)DSL Wrote:  Did our African American students and alums have much input into this design?
What sort of design would be most meaningful to them?
Doesn't appear so

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09-04-2020 08:18 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #35
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
I tend to read plaques and ignore abstract art.
And I do read the historic markers along the roadways.
09-04-2020 08:20 PM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 08:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 08:18 PM)DSL Wrote:  Did our African American students and alums have much input into this design?
What sort of design would be most meaningful to them?
Doesn't appear so

Of course students and alums were involved. This is just lazy. Come on.

Here's the full team that makes up the committee. 14 of them are undergrads or graduates since 2015 when the conversation about the Memorial first began.
Source: https://www.wm.edu/sites/lemonproject/me.../index.php

The entire concept of this came from a class...that had students in it.

"Discussion around erecting a memorial began with a course in 2014 taught by Director of the Lemon Project and history professor Jody Allen Ph.D ’09 and art senior lecturer Ed Pease. Students in the class were asked to develop a memorial concept as a final project. Soon thereafter, the Lemon Project Committee on Memorialization was formed to brainstorm ideas for a Memorial to the Enslaved on campus."
http://flathatnews.com/2020/08/31/the-le...ed-update/


And then they accepted submissions from the community and received over 80 submissions and selected a design by an alum.
https://www.dailypress.com/virginiagazet...story.html

So yes. Students and alums were involved.
09-04-2020 09:31 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 08:20 PM)DSL Wrote:  I tend to read plaques and ignore abstract art.
And I do read the historic markers along the roadways.

I tend to learn history from text books and museums. Statues and monuments are more about making statements and/or conveying public honor. For example, a statue of Robert E. Lee outside a courthouse conveys a message to those entering the courthouse, but teaches very little about Civil War history.

I suspect those that see this memorial may be inspired to educate themselves about slavery at the College, something I did just recently.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2020 09:50 PM by WMTribe90.)
09-04-2020 09:49 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
(09-04-2020 08:20 PM)DSL Wrote:  I tend to read plaques and ignore abstract art.
And I do read the historic markers along the roadways.

I tend to learn history from text books and museums. Statues and monuments are more about making statements and/or conveying public honor. For example, a statue of Robert E. Lee outside a courthouse conveys a message to those entering the courthouse, but teaches very little about Civil War history.

I suspect those that see this memorial may be inspired to educate themselves about slavery at the College, something I did just recently.
09-04-2020 09:50 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #39
W&M African-American Memorial
Meh, I watch the History Channel. Books are filled with biased accounts & hypothesis. TV does the same but all the desperate C actors give the story a nice touch.

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09-05-2020 05:10 AM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #40
RE: W&M African-American Memorial
Someone on the board recommended reading Company Aytch.
I'm reading it now. An interesting perspective from an average soldier.
I just studied the Celts and now I'm going back through Western Civilization.
Obviously, I'm retired. That gives me plenty of time to read both books and plaques.
I didn't know there are more than fifty James Bond novels.

With the weather being so nice today, I'm visiting campus today with another alum
to check out the
location of the memorial. Maybe I'll get more perspective on the size of the
structure.
09-05-2020 08:57 AM
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