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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 03:18 PM)Houston Owl 2 Wrote:  According to my brief (very brief) discussions with Leebron...the costs of starting a law school with a faculty that is comparable to the current Rice Faculty is somewhere in the neighborhood of $650MM to $700MM. The costs for a comparable medical school would be twice that.
I agree with the proposition that Rice needs a medical and/or law school, but Rice needs such a school that is comparable with the current Rice rankings...and that is very expensive.

Those are about the same numbers as I have seen elsewhere. As I understand it, we were going to pay $1B for Baylor, which is considerably below what would be sticker price for a med school of that quality, largely because of the internal turmoil which they were experiencing. What I'm saying is that there was that the same turmoil presented an opportunity to get started with a lot more than we would ordinarily have starting from scratch. Yes Walt, it would have required investing a substantial portion of the endowment. But if the goal is to increase the quality of the university, it is probably the biggest single step we could take in that direction.

I just think $1.5B for a med school does more for Rice than an opera house ever will.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 05:41 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-03-2020 05:39 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 02:34 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I hear what you're saying, BUT (1) the Baylor deal was a financial disaster for Rice and it's highly unlikely Baylor would have voted to allow it to happen, and (2) the Bioscience Research Collaborative (BRC) is thriving and has brought in a great deal of bio/biomedical research funding.

Yes, but we are always going to be the junior partner in BRC. Having a med school of our own would give us the whole enchilada.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 09:48 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-03-2020 05:40 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: New Arts building
Not that it really makes a difference, but I know who the anonymous lead donor for the Opera House was, and it would be very, very difficult to characterize them as anti-sports.
09-03-2020 06:45 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 06:45 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Not that it really makes a difference, but I know who the anonymous lead donor for the Opera House was, and it would be very, very difficult to characterize them as anti-sports.

I do not say or intend that the Opera House is anti-sports. What I am saying is that stuff like that, while useful, is not within what has historically been Rice's primary focus area--STEM.
09-03-2020 07:13 PM
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Post: #65
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 07:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 06:45 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Not that it really makes a difference, but I know who the anonymous lead donor for the Opera House was, and it would be very, very difficult to characterize them as anti-sports.

I do not say or intend that the Opera House is anti-sports. What I am saying is that stuff like that, while useful, is not within what has historically been Rice's primary focus area--STEM.

Chip, I just don't get your logic here. Rice has not lost any emphasis on STEM, but what it has been doing over the past 40 years is broadening the appeal of the University beyond simply engineering, which in turn works to improve the school's overall reputation. We're still perceived as an elite STEM school, but now we're also among the national leaders in the Social Sciences (Sociology, Economics, Sports Management and Psychology). The Jones School and Baker Institute have also broadened our appeal and reputation without detracting from our STEM focus.

Hey, I also don't get the Opera House strategic fit, but if several of our biggest donors push for it's construction, and are will to pony up the money, I'm not sure it's in our interest to tell them, no.
09-03-2020 07:39 PM
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Post: #66
RE: New Arts building
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me that now we have a top music school, an Opera House might be a good addition.
09-03-2020 07:59 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 07:39 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Hey, I also don't get the Opera House strategic fit, but if several of our biggest donors push for it's construction, and are will to pony up the money, I'm not sure it's in our interest to tell them, no.

And that is my point, and my only point, the lack of a strategic fit. You and I probably have different visions for what we would like to see Rice become, based on our differences of opinion in other areas. Rice has always taken the position that whatever donors will fund, they will build. I just wish RiceFootballNet had taken John Doerr to more football and basketball games.

For the record, I've said nothing about lost interest in STEM, nor do I have any reason to believe that has occurred. I wish the non-STEM portions of the university were more Hillsdale than Harvard, but that's just a personal preference that is unlikely to be realized. And I wish we had a med school and a law school. With those two things, we'd be in single digits in the USN&WR rankings, to the extent that matters to anyone. And I'd like to see us be #1 in value for money every year.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2020 09:51 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-03-2020 09:47 PM
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Post: #68
RE: New Arts building
I'd prefer med over law by a long shot. I'm unaware of a shortage of lawyers. Not a knock on them, just an observation. I'd especially like it if we created more docs either from Texas, or who wanted to practice in Texas. Lots of state school med schools admit people on that very hope. I'm not against a law school, it's just not worth as much to me. Maybe we create some sort of partnership with TSU surrounding Marshall. I know they don't have a great ranking, but they do have a long and notable history. We might want them to be much more selective than their BOT wants them to be, but we also might attract a lot of minority candidates who have offers to go to places like Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Vandy and even UT.... who are among our top competitors. We could certainly help them attract quality candidates with financial needs and also perhaps attract more donors.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2020 04:50 PM by Hambone10.)
09-04-2020 04:46 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: New Arts building
(09-04-2020 04:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'd prefer med over law by a long shot. I'm unaware of a shortage of lawyers. Not a knock on them, just an observation.

A law school doesn't do nearly as much for reputation as a med school, because it doesn't generate the huge research dollars that a med school does. Rice doesn't generate the huge research bucks that some others do because 1) it's so small that there aren't as many potential recipients, and 2). it doesn't have a med school. Te value of a law school would be that, in combination with the Jones School and the Baker Center, it could generate some really interesting work.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2020 12:12 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-04-2020 06:52 PM
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RE: New Arts building
(09-04-2020 04:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'd prefer med over law by a long shot. I'm unaware of a shortage of lawyers. Not a knock on them, just an observation. I'd especially like it if we created more docs either from Texas, or who wanted to practice in Texas. Lots of state school med schools admit people on that very hope. I'm not against a law school, it's just not worth as much to me. Maybe we create some sort of partnership with TSU surrounding Marshall. I know they don't have a great ranking, but they do have a long and notable history. We might want them to be much more selective than their BOT wants them to be, but we also might attract a lot of minority candidates who have offers to go to places like Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Vandy and even UT.... who are among our top competitors. We could certainly help them attract quality candidates with financial needs and also perhaps attract more donors.

If Rice had a med school on the original no-tuition model - that could retain more doctors for underserved areas, and a whole bunch of Texas is underserved.
If shiny new doctors went to work after MD and residency training without crushing debt, more of them would be able to afford to be in primary care.
The entire country needs more primary care physicians.
I am deliberately ignoring the impractical nature of that financial model.

On the original topic - I'm assuming that the new Arts building is going to be built where the Media Center is now.
There are people who have studied and worked in the Media Center who want a piece of that wood floor as a souvenir.
How do we make that happen?
I'll show up with tools on the right day, if someone will just tell me when.
09-04-2020 10:00 PM
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Grungy Offline
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Post: #71
RE: New Arts building
“The Rice Media Center building is set to be demolished to become the site of the Sarodim building...”
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/houston-...9956324046
09-06-2020 05:49 PM
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Post: #72
RE: New Arts building
(09-06-2020 05:49 PM)Grungy Wrote:  “The Rice Media Center building is set to be demolished to become the site of the Sarofim building...”
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/houston-...9956324046

Thanks, Grungy, for confirming its location.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2020 08:53 PM by Grungy.)
09-06-2020 08:42 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: New Arts building
(09-03-2020 02:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've said many times that I would love for Rice to become Hillsdale-on-the-Bayou as far as political lean, and that clearly isn't happening. I would say that in my era the STEM students were typically more conservative than the Academs. Many of them were going to go to work for oil companies, and they understandably didn't want to upset their gravy train.

Hillsdale is so far out of the mainstream, that it's just about in Bob Jones University territory.

It currently ranks #2314 in racial diversity (I don't think that the rankings go much lower).

I guess BYU or Weber State are not quite white enough.
09-09-2020 05:15 PM
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Post: #74
RE: New Arts building
(09-09-2020 05:15 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Hillsdale is so far out of the mainstream, that it's just about in Bob Jones University territory.

From what I can see of the mainstream, I'm not comfortable with either Bob Jones or the mainstream.

Quote:It currently ranks #2314 in racial diversity (I don't think that the rankings go much lower).

With a little digging, I found the source of that ranking. Thank you for not providing a link. If you look at the underlying data, they have no racial data on Hillsdale. Zero data obviously equal a low score (100% ethnicity unknown). The same page says overall diversity is good. Geograpic, gender, and overall are good. And there are 2700-odd listed, so there are about 400 lower.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 01:26 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-10-2020 01:24 AM
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Post: #75
RE: New Arts building
(09-04-2020 04:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'd prefer med over law by a long shot. I'm unaware of a shortage of lawyers. Not a knock on them, just an observation. I'd especially like it if we created more docs either from Texas, or who wanted to practice in Texas. Lots of state school med schools admit people on that very hope. I'm not against a law school, it's just not worth as much to me. Maybe we create some sort of partnership with TSU surrounding Marshall. I know they don't have a great ranking, but they do have a long and notable history. We might want them to be much more selective than their BOT wants them to be, but we also might attract a lot of minority candidates who have offers to go to places like Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Vandy and even UT.... who are among our top competitors. We could certainly help them attract quality candidates with financial needs and also perhaps attract more donors.

+1000

I have long thought that the only way Rice should start a law school if it was an extremely focused program that offered specialties in law (perhaps a combined JD/LLM or something) that were specific to Rice/Houston. So a law school that focused on IT law, medical/legal, energy, international law, and maybe a few others. Even more ideal would be if all the intro-courses were done at one of the other law schools in Houston with the Rice portion just being years 2-3.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 10:32 AM by mrbig.)
09-10-2020 10:31 AM
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Post: #76
RE: New Arts building
(09-10-2020 01:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 05:15 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Hillsdale is so far out of the mainstream, that it's just about in Bob Jones University territory.

From what I can see of the mainstream, I'm not comfortable with either Bob Jones or the mainstream.

Quote:It currently ranks #2314 in racial diversity (I don't think that the rankings go much lower).

With a little digging, I found the source of that ranking. Thank you for not providing a link. If you look at the underlying data, they have no racial data on Hillsdale. Zero data obviously equal a low score (100% ethnicity unknown). The same page says overall diversity is good. Geograpic, gender, and overall are good. And there are 2700-odd listed, so there are about 400 lower.

The fact that I have never heard of Hillsdale makes me a little nervous about your suggestion. Do I just have my head in the sand or is Hillsdale some big name academic school? Is it a Rose Hulman that I just haven't heard of?
09-10-2020 10:35 AM
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Post: #77
RE: New Arts building
(09-10-2020 10:35 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 01:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 05:15 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Hillsdale is so far out of the mainstream, that it's just about in Bob Jones University territory.

From what I can see of the mainstream, I'm not comfortable with either Bob Jones or the mainstream.

Quote:It currently ranks #2314 in racial diversity (I don't think that the rankings go much lower).

With a little digging, I found the source of that ranking. Thank you for not providing a link. If you look at the underlying data, they have no racial data on Hillsdale. Zero data obviously equal a low score (100% ethnicity unknown). The same page says overall diversity is good. Geograpic, gender, and overall are good. And there are 2700-odd listed, so there are about 400 lower.

The fact that I have never heard of Hillsdale makes me a little nervous about your suggestion. Do I just have my head in the sand or is Hillsdale some big name academic school? Is it a Rose Hulman that I just haven't heard of?

It is not a place you want to hear of. Very conservative.
09-10-2020 10:38 AM
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Post: #78
RE: New Arts building
(09-10-2020 10:35 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 01:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 05:15 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Hillsdale is so far out of the mainstream, that it's just about in Bob Jones University territory.
From what I can see of the mainstream, I'm not comfortable with either Bob Jones or the mainstream.
Quote:It currently ranks #2314 in racial diversity (I don't think that the rankings go much lower).
With a little digging, I found the source of that ranking. Thank you for not providing a link. If you look at the underlying data, they have no racial data on Hillsdale. Zero data obviously equal a low score (100% ethnicity unknown). The same page says overall diversity is good. Geograpic, gender, and overall are good. And there are 2700-odd listed, so there are about 400 lower.
The fact that I have never heard of Hillsdale makes me a little nervous about your suggestion. Do I just have my head in the sand or is Hillsdale some big name academic school? Is it a Rose Hulman that I just haven't heard of?

Hillsdale is pretty much a bastion of free-market economics. I would put them more in the libertarian camp than the religious conservative Bob Jones/Liberty/BYU camp. I'm not aware of any particular racial animus, although I suspect there is some reason to believe that socialist economics are more readily accepted than free markets in minority communities. The alleged racist statistics that WRC listed are probably becuase they had no data on ethnicity for Hillsdale so they reported it 100% unknown, which is pretty un-diverse. They do not accept federal funding, and are therefore exempt from many federal reporting requirements, which seems to have been the source of information in the study.

The other thing that I find interesting is that, no matter what your major, you receive a well-rounded education including the classics, history, and basic sciences. Rice was kind of that way when I attended, but talking to my son about his experience there, that's apparently something of a bygone now.

They were recently involved in a dispute with another university, I think it was Michigan. Someone left a substantial grant to the other university to create a chair for a free-market economist, with the proviso that if they failed to do that, the money would go to Hillsdale. The other university hired a left-wing Keynesian, and Hillsdale filed an action that was settled confidentially.

A couple of their alumni are Chris Chocola, former republican congressman from Indiana and a member of the board of the Club for Growth, and Erik Prince, who founded Blackwater. So yes, they tend to be conservative. So do I, and I wish Rice were more so.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020 11:07 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-10-2020 10:47 AM
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RE: New Arts building
From wiki re: Hillsdale and their president:

Quote:Larry P. Arnn has served as president of the college since 2000.[35] Under his tenure, the college completed various new buildings, including the John A. Halter Shooting Sports Center and Margot V. Biermann Athletic Center.[36] The college also opened the Allan P. Kirby, Jr. Center for Constitutional Studies and Citizenship, an off-campus educational center in Washington, D.C.[37]

In 2013, Arnn was criticized for remarks about ethnic minorities he made while testifying before the Michigan legislature against the Common Core curriculum standards. Expressing concern about government interference with educational institutions, he noted having received a letter from the state Department of Education early in his presidency that said his college "violated the standards for diversity." He added, "because we didn't have enough dark ones, I guess, is what they meant." After being criticized for calling minorities "dark ones," Arnn explained that he was referring to "dark faces". He stated: "The State of Michigan sent a group of people down to my campus, with clipboards ... to look at the colors of people's faces and write down what they saw. We don't keep records of that information. What were they looking for besides dark ones?"[38][39]

Michigan House Democratic Leader Tim Greimel condemned Arnn's comments, calling them "offensive", "inflammatory and bigoted", and asked for an apology.[40] In response, the college issued a statement apologizing for Arnn's remark, while reiterating his concern about "state-endorsed racism", as Arnn called affirmative action.[41]

Nice. I wonder how the black students (do they have black students?) feel about their leader.

No thank you if this is what you think Rice should emulate.
09-10-2020 11:18 AM
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RE: New Arts building
Who was Hillsdale founded by?
09-10-2020 12:02 PM
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