(08-22-2020 10:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 08:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  “Right now, you better be happy that we’re being good citizens - that we’re peaceful citizens - but it’s not gonna be peaceful much longer.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/pdabrosca/sta...8223479810

Nothing happens next.

Law abiding productive members of society with homes, and jobs and businesses and bills they are responsible for are not going to take to the streets to burn piles of tires. Not happening.

People with nothing to lose who don’t give a frick will. People busting their asses to make a better life for themselves and their kids won’t.

I think you're wrong. People with hungry kids will. Civilization is a very thin veneer.

(08-22-2020 09:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 07:29 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Yea, we’ve heard a LOT of credentials.
Tell us which have gotten near anything right?
Shall I mask or not mask? Is a “gator” good or potentially more dangerous? Is it 3 feet, 6 feet, or 25 feet? Or does it matter at all?
Please. Tell us about the “science” of this.
Should be entertaining...

That's the problem here. The "experts" aren't experts about this, because nobody knows. But that doesn't stop them from being know-it-alls and telling the rest of us what to do.

I think we do know some things:

- Aside from elderly and unhealthy people, it doesn't appear to be anything like a death warrant, more like a case of the flu.

- Sending patients with the virus to live in nursing homes does nothing but kill the residents of the nursing home, to whom it spreads.

- Masks actually work. Almost everybody in Japan wears masks to begin with, and they have had fewer cases per million than we have had deaths per million.

- Shutting down the economy appears to have little impact. All it does is hurt far more people than contract the disease in the first place.

So I don't agree with those who oppose wearing masks, but I do agree with those who oppose shutting down the economy. I would have said, early on, that you can reopen as long as you have everybody wear masks and practice social distancing. And if we had implemented my ideas of Bismarck, Boortz-Linder, and kurzarbeit beforehand, we could have minimized the economic impact. And if we had some group standing by to respond to emergencies, again like my proposal for the National Guard, and if we had told CDC and FDA to stifle being bureaucrats and act like emergency responders, we would have dealt with it a lot better.

The "experts" are the ones who screwed the pooch on this one. And like millions of Americans, they kept getting their 6-figure salaries while it was going on.

We don't know that masks work. Have you considered that Japan is an island that can shut itself off from the rest of the world? Have you considered that Japanese are very hygenic relative to Americans and probably do better at washing their hands? Japanese are more group than individual and are probably more responsible at avoiding large crowds, breathing in people's faces and staying home when they are sick.

The science on masks if you don't have an N-95, which are in too short a supply, is very mixed. And all the pro mask studies are theoretical and don't look at it in the real world where people wear the mask down over their nose and constantly adjust it and put their hands all over their face spreading any germs that might be on the mask.

The mask Nazis are DANGEROUS. Not so much in the civil rights and conflict they create, but because masks, even if effective, are the least effective method to control the spread and give people a false sense of security so they ignore the things that are really important.

WASH your hands.
AVOID large crowds.
DISTANCE yourself.
STAY home if you are sick or have been exposed to someone who is.

Do those 4 and masks have absolutely zero value.

(08-22-2020 11:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  We don't know that masks work. Have you considered that Japan is an island that can shut itself off from the rest of the world? Have you considered that Japanese are very hygenic relative to Americans and probably do better at washing their hands? Japanese are more group than individual and are probably more responsible at avoiding large crowds, breathing in people's faces and staying home when they are sick.
The science on masks if you don't have an N-95, which are in too short a supply, is very mixed. And all the pro mask studies are theoretical and don't look at it in the real world where people wear the mask down over their nose and constantly adjust it and put their hands all over their face spreading any germs that might be on the mask.
The mask Nazis are DANGEROUS. Not so much in the civil rights and conflict they create, but because masks, even if effective, are the least effective method to control the spread and give people a false sense of security so the ignore the things that are really important.
WASH your hands.
AVOID large crowds.
DISTANCE yourself.
STAY home if you are sick or have been exposed to someone who is.
Do those 4 and masks have absolutely zero value.

On the flip side, Japan actually kept their economy going, so lockdown does not seem to be the thing that works.

An N-95 supposedly stops 95%. Let's say you are using a lesser mask that only stops 50%. It still has a significant impact.

Let's say without a mask you infect 10 people, and each of them infects 10 people, and each of them infects 10 more. That's 1000 people in a fairly short time.

Now with a mask that stops 50%, you infect 5, and they each infect 5, and each of them infects 5 more. That's 125. In fairly short order a relatively ineffective mask has reduced the spread by a factor of 8x.

The fallacy with masks is thinking that you are invincible if you wear one. No, you still have to

WASH your hands.
AVOID large crowds.
DISTANCE yourself.
STAY home if you are sick or have been exposed to someone who is.

But with masks, and those other things, we could have kept the economy going and drastically reduced the impact on millions of Americans.

The experts screwed the pooch. If Trump did anything wrong, it was that he listened to the experts too much, instead of using more common sense. If anybody thinks that Biden or Harris or any of the democrats, with their love of elite experts, would have done better, they are kidding themselves.

(08-22-2020 11:02 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 10:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 08:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  “Right now, you better be happy that we’re being good citizens - that we’re peaceful citizens - but it’s not gonna be peaceful much longer.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/pdabrosca/sta...8223479810

Nothing happens next.

Law abiding productive members of society with homes, and jobs and businesses and bills they are responsible for are not going to take to the streets to burn piles of tires. Not happening.

People with nothing to lose who don’t give a frick will. People busting their asses to make a better life for themselves and their kids won’t.

I think you're wrong. People with hungry kids will. Civilization is a very thin veneer.

Whose kids are hungry that are doing the things I set forth? If you want to work, this country has plenty of opportunities.

Since the dawn of time people with something to lose generally don’t take to the streets. They talk about it but shut up and take it. Antifa and BLM are lunatics but they at least understand that fact.

(08-22-2020 10:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  People busting their asses to make a better life for themselves and their kids won’t.

Until ... they do. And that will be all heck to pay.

(08-22-2020 11:10 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 11:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  We don't know that masks work. Have you considered that Japan is an island that can shut itself off from the rest of the world? Have you considered that Japanese are very hygenic relative to Americans and probably do better at washing their hands? Japanese are more group than individual and are probably more responsible at avoiding large crowds, breathing in people's faces and staying home when they are sick.
The science on masks if you don't have an N-95, which are in too short a supply, is very mixed. And all the pro mask studies are theoretical and don't look at it in the real world where people wear the mask down over their nose and constantly adjust it and put their hands all over their face spreading any germs that might be on the mask.
The mask Nazis are DANGEROUS. Not so much in the civil rights and conflict they create, but because masks, even if effective, are the least effective method to control the spread and give people a false sense of security so the ignore the things that are really important.
WASH your hands.
AVOID large crowds.
DISTANCE yourself.
STAY home if you are sick or have been exposed to someone who is.
Do those 4 and masks have absolutely zero value.

On the flip side, Japan actually kept their economy going, so lockdown does not seem to be the thing that works.

An N-95 supposedly stops 95%. Let's say you are using a lesser mask that only stops 50%. It still has a significant impact.

Let's say without a mask you infect 10 people, and each of them infects 10 people, and each of them infects 10 more. That's 1000 people in a fairly short time.

Now with a mask that stops 50%, you infect 5, and they each infect 5, and each of them infects 5 more. That's 125. In fairly short order a relatively ineffective mask has reduced the spread by a factor of 8x.

The fallacy with masks is thinking that you are invincible if you wear one. No, you still have to

WASH your hands.
AVOID large crowds.
DISTANCE yourself.
STAY home if you are sick or have been exposed to someone who is.

But with masks, and those other things, we could have kept the economy going and drastically reduced the impact on millions of Americans.

The experts screwed the pooch. If Trump did anything wrong, it was that he listened to the experts too much, instead of using more common sense. If anybody thinks that Biden or Harris or any of the democrats, with their love of elite experts, would have done better, they are kidding themselves.

As you say, the experts are not experts. But its even broader than not being experts on Covid-19. They aren't experts on anything other than their field of expertise. If you try to control the spread of disease as the infectious disease experts want, you cause problems in other areas. A couple of different studies showed that the shutdowns killed 25-30,000 people from March through May. Those people would not have died without the shutdowns.

(08-22-2020 10:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 08:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  “Right now, you better be happy that we’re being good citizens - that we’re peaceful citizens - but it’s not gonna be peaceful much longer.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/pdabrosca/sta...8223479810

Nothing happens next.

Law abiding productive members of society with homes, and jobs and businesses and bills they are responsible for are not going to take to the streets to burn piles of tires. Not happening.

People with nothing to lose who don’t give a frick will. People busting their asses to make a better life for themselves and their kids won’t.

Meh...words. Those "leaders" know the average Repub voters will not sacrifice his freedom, i.e., for a prison cell and will not do anything,
only talk and threaten. But, if he's right, are there enough prisons that can hold thousands. I don't think so.

Killery's foes get suicided and nothing has happened to them. Why?

(08-22-2020 11:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  As you say, the experts are not experts. But its even broader than not being experts on Covid-19. They aren't experts on anything other than their field of expertise. If you try to control the spread of disease as the infectious disease experts want, you cause problems in other areas. A couple of different studies showed that the shutdowns killed 25-30,000 people from March through May. Those people would not have died without the shutdowns.

Exactly. And I would guess that 25-30,000 number is probably understated.

(08-22-2020 11:33 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 10:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 08:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  “Right now, you better be happy that we’re being good citizens - that we’re peaceful citizens - but it’s not gonna be peaceful much longer.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/pdabrosca/sta...8223479810

Nothing happens next.

Law abiding productive members of society with homes, and jobs and businesses and bills they are responsible for are not going to take to the streets to burn piles of tires. Not happening.

People with nothing to lose who don’t give a frick will. People busting their asses to make a better life for themselves and their kids won’t.

Meh...words. Those "leaders" know the average Repub voters will not sacrifice his freedom, i.e., for a prison cell and will not do anything,
only talk and threaten. But, if he's right, are there enough prisons that can hold thousands. I don't think so.

Killery's foes get suicided and nothing has happened to them. Why?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)



Just sayin

It's happened before

American rebel victory
McMinn County government forced to disband; replaced by new government

I'm from Missouri Shere, show me. Oh, that's Missouri Street, not the state. It won't happen. Oh sure, there'll be small individual anti protests against the mob but no one will go after the "leaders". They know they have the law on their side. Look at Beetlejuice in Chitcongo, (I stole that) she just had the police protecting HER home while ignoring everyone elses'.

Whomever owns the badge owns the people.